Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Worldwide > Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific
Reload this Page >

Virgin Australia - Phoenix Rising from the Ashes?

Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Virgin Australia - Phoenix Rising from the Ashes?

Old 20th Apr 2022, 16:00
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Earth
Posts: 6
Virgin Australia - Phoenix Rising from the Ashes?

it痴 been a couple of years since a thread regarding Virgin Australia was created so I hope this gets the ball rolling.
覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧

With the dust settling from the Virgin Australia administration there seems to be new rumours on the ramp regarding the future of VA and VARA.

Latest news suggests Bain capital are investing in Virgins future for the long term despite reports they wanted to float the company next year (2023). With major debt ties finally cut it seems the airline has no where to go than up.

Despite their loss of circa $76.8mil (considerably less than previous years under previous management) in fiscal year 2021, and Covid finally being over, will we see Virgin make a push for the skies or proceed with caution with Bain heaving at the reigns?

I am no expert but I would suggest the best way forward for Virgin would be to consolidate its domestic operation around Australia, stay competitive with Bonza and Qantas and restart international operations ASAP. With Qantas operating almost all of international flights out of Australia under the careful watch of the ACCC it seems ridiculous that none of the 787痴 that Virgin hinted at buying years ago are even on the cards yet. Another opportunity wasted.

Are the 25 737 MAX痴 arriving in 2023 replacing the dinosaur 737痴 hobbling around their network or will they be used to supplement the short haul international network out of the east coast and potentially create new opportunities out of Perth?

The newest rumours on the block suggest that VA offshoot VARA will obtain Boeing 737-700 jets. Rumours suggest that VA have purchased 10 ex KLM 700 series and have them operate on the west coast. With an ever ageing Fokker 100 fleet surely these jets are intended as a replacement? Why though would VA commit to these aircraft rather than investing in their growing A320 fleet and run A319痴 in the Pilbara? Common Airbus fleet type would streamline maintenance, crewing and general ops?

From a commercial standpoint, one would assume the 737-700 would limit VARA痴 ASK, compromise its ability to consolidate its position servicing the WA market and more importantly affect its ability to compete against an ever expanding Network fleet? Or are these aircraft simply replacement frames for the F100痴 servicing the FIFO market? From what I致e been told, the F100 runs rings around the 737 in regards to its performance out of high elevation high temperature airports - does the 737 even make sense in the summer? Jeez I hope they got the numbers right there if it痴 true.

The purchase of the 737-700痴 is also a complicated move in regards to the AOC痴. I can only assume that VARA still have the A320, F100, F70 and ATR-72 on their AOC. It seems silly to add another aircraft on the list when VA already have the 737 on their AOC? Is this Bains subtle way of ditching VARA and absorbing all operations under the VA AOC or rather a strategic move to have VARA operate 737 routes for much less in WA just like network is doing for Qantas?

I miss the presence that Virgin once had in Australian aviation. I miss seeing their 330痴 running East-West and tripplers running to LAX. I hope to see this amazing airline achieve huge success in the future because we all know at times they offer a damn lot more than other airlines do in this country.
v1bang is offline  
Old 20th Apr 2022, 20:16
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: BBN
Posts: 800
Are you JH? I do agree that if VA get WB, QF really needs to lift their game from staff to CEO attitude at all levels is in a rapid free fall.
SHVC is online now  
Old 20th Apr 2022, 20:22
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Oz
Posts: 1,363
I was told the -700s are going East coast in an effort to hold onto the 50 odd Tiger slots, and less rely on Alliance in smaller markets in the longer run.

Last edited by PoppaJo; 20th Apr 2022 at 20:35.
PoppaJo is offline  
Old 21st Apr 2022, 00:28
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2022
Location: Aus
Posts: 25
I believe the 700痴 are leased not owned. I also believe a decision is yet to be announced as to where they will end up. The decision was meant to have been made in early April.

Hopefully widebodies are on the cards too. They have gotten rid of the majority of their debt, have regained market share and a have a pretty valuable frequent flyer program. They also managed to cut their cost base through administration. Bain picked up a bargain and will make an absolute motza out of it. However they could also sit back and take in the yearly profits which could be in the billions if they play their cards right.

Meanwhile the opposition now has more debt than virgin did when it went into administration.

Both airlines also have disgruntled staff. Changing the attitudes towards staff and their T&C痴 could make a difference towards the airlines success.
Red69 is offline  
Old 21st Apr 2022, 00:43
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Qld
Posts: 139
The rumored ex-KLM 73Gs are likely to be for East Coast operations, and probably on the marginal routes where VA would've used the Alliance F100s.
DanV2 is offline  
Old 21st Apr 2022, 00:56
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 2,254
Small steps

The Turboprop arrangement with Link Airways is going exceptionally well, if the loads are anything to go by!
KRUSTY 34 is offline  
Old 21st Apr 2022, 01:39
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Oz
Posts: 1,363
Highly likely the MAX10 will slip into 2024 while they sort out the alerting issue amongst other certification problems. Wouldn稚 expect any word from Boeing until the end of the year.

They will need all the aircraft they can get in the meantime.
PoppaJo is offline  
Old 21st Apr 2022, 02:46
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Micks Place
Posts: 28
Originally Posted by Red69 View Post
Both airlines also have disgruntled staff. Changing the attitudes towards staff and their T&C痴 could make a difference towards the airlines success.
​​​​​​Lol
I like the idea... but I've got some well founded doubts
belongamick is offline  
Old 21st Apr 2022, 02:46
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Earth
Posts: 130
Qantas is working very hard to helping Virgin's recovery. zero investment, shocking management, poor treatment of staff, love of outsourcing and overall arrogance means they've handed everything to their competitors, all of them risen out of nothing (rex) or from the ashes (virgin).

does a great mardi gras though.
unobtanium is offline  
Old 21st Apr 2022, 02:59
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 267
Originally Posted by v1bang View Post
Why go with the 737-700 series anyway? What痴 the point of leasing them when they could no doubt find an aircraft with more seats at a similar price? 737-700 seems to be a huge step in the wrong direction if they need more bums on seats?
Lower demand routes and I believe pavement concessions
TimmyTee is offline  
Old 21st Apr 2022, 03:12
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2022
Location: Aus
Posts: 25
I think an important item to note is the debt levels and cost base. Virgin are being very rational with their growth/expansion. They aren稚 chasing the competition. They are doing their own thing and doing it well.

Qantas on the other hand are laden with debt and with an upcoming fleet renewal, will have some significant debt/cash outflow to come.

Virgin achieved a sweet deal on the max痴 from my understanding with a fair portion of the order already paid for by the previous owners.

Just some food for thought.
Red69 is offline  
Old 21st Apr 2022, 03:55
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: tossbagville
Posts: 407
However they could also sit back and take in the yearly profits which could be in the billions if they play their cards right.
comedy gold that. Billions of dollars eh??

I like that they're back. And they're doing a great job so far. Have enjoyed flying with them. But billions of dollars of profit, that's really funny.
tossbag is offline  
Old 21st Apr 2022, 04:05
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Brisvegas
Posts: 3,425
I hope to see this amazing airline achieve huge success in the future because we all know at times they offer a damn lot more than other airlines do in this country.
I hope they do well but you lost me there…What do they offer that is a “damn lot more” than other airlines in Australia?
In what way are VA amazing? Was it the $2 initial issue price followed by a decade below sixty cents or the billions lost and written off by creditors to give them a clean sheet to start with?

PS Why would VARA want to ditch the A320s that they operate for 737s?
Icarus2001 is offline  
Old 21st Apr 2022, 04:31
  #14 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Earth
Posts: 6
Originally Posted by Icarus2001 View Post
I hope they do well but you lost me thereWhat do they offer that is a 電amn lot more than other airlines in Australia?
In what way are VA amazing? Was it the $2 initial issue price followed by a decade below sixty cents or the billions lost and written off by creditors to give them a clean sheet to start with?

PS Why would VARA want to ditch the A320s that they operate for 737s?
I guess I was hopeful that Virgin offers better customer service, customer support etc but with Covid its hard to gauge how accurate that is.

The A320痴 are leased so why not let them expire and use the 73痴?
v1bang is offline  
Old 21st Apr 2022, 04:33
  #15 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Earth
Posts: 6
Originally Posted by KRUSTY 34 View Post
The Turboprop arrangement with Link Airways is going exceptionally well, if the loads are anything to go by!
That mini alliance is surprising as well! Imagine booking a virgin ticket from Sydney to Canberra and ending up on that Saab! Next time I壇 be booking direct with Qantas with the 喪isk of being put on a dash 8 as a worst case scenario! The rebranding to Link Airways was the best thing corporate air ever did - put them in bed with the big guys!
v1bang is offline  
Old 21st Apr 2022, 04:42
  #16 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Earth
Posts: 6
Originally Posted by DanV2 View Post
The rumored ex-KLM 73Gs are likely to be for East Coast operations, and probably on the marginal routes where VA would've used the Alliance F100s.
This makes sense - take back some of the work that VA are palming off to Alliance. Imagine what they could have done if they kept their ATR痴!
v1bang is offline  
Old 21st Apr 2022, 04:44
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2022
Location: Aus
Posts: 25
Originally Posted by tossbag View Post
comedy gold that. Billions of dollars eh??

I like that they're back. And they're doing a great job so far. Have enjoyed flying with them. But billions of dollars of profit, that's really funny.
Have a look at the profits Qantas were bringing in pre covid. VA have a very low cost base now. Additionally they have much better management; people who are actually incentivised to turn a profit.

Not saying it will happen overnight but it could well happen in the next 5 years when they have a bigger network which could include wide body operations.
Red69 is offline  
Old 21st Apr 2022, 04:50
  #18 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Earth
Posts: 6
Originally Posted by Red69 View Post
I believe the 700痴 are leased not owned. I also believe a decision is yet to be announced as to where they will end up. The decision was meant to have been made in early April.

Hopefully widebodies are on the cards too.

Meanwhile the opposition now has more debt than virgin did when it went into administration.
Seems like the staff will be waiting a long time for them to make their mind up about the future of the company! Or they値l probably find out from the news before the company tells them anything.

I hope so too. I壇 love to avoid paying Qantas fares to go anywhere out of Australia - we desperately need that healthy competition to drive the prices back down. Mind you Virgin charged a bucket load between cities when the borders opened up so who痴 to say the prices will be at all cheap.

True - But Qantas have more equity and can therefore expand quicker than what Virgin can.
v1bang is offline  
Old 21st Apr 2022, 05:43
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: australia
Posts: 317
Imagine what they could have done if they kept their EMB 190’s👍
mates rates is offline  
Old 21st Apr 2022, 05:55
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Qld
Posts: 139
If there are any F100s at VARA that needs replacing, it's probably more likely that Bain will acquire more A320ceo leases to replace any of the F100s, especially those from the ex-Tiger Australia or ex-Tiger Singapore/Scoot fleets. Largely for commonality purposes.
DanV2 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright ゥ 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.