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Why do positions like Chief Pilot, HOFO, HOTAC etc exist?

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Why do positions like Chief Pilot, HOFO, HOTAC etc exist?

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Old 7th Jan 2022, 13:29
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Xeptu
The one I have never understood is Human Resources. What a waste of time and resources.
”Human Resources” is a horrible title, IMNVHO, because it represents a management viewpoint that places human beings alongside finance, material, etc, as mere inputs to the organisation. “Personnel” was a better title. But whatever you call it, you do need a specialist who understands employment law, how to deal with pregnancies, harassment, bullying, redundancy, if necessary firing people, and so on, while navigating the intricacies and pitfalls of modern employment law, which can get you in deep sh*t if not carefully handled.
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Old 7th Jan 2022, 18:44
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Originally Posted by OldLurker
”Human Resources” is a horrible title, IMNVHO, because it represents a management viewpoint that places human beings alongside finance, material, etc, as mere inputs to the organisation. “Personnel” was a better title. But whatever you call it, you do need a specialist who understands employment law, how to deal with pregnancies, harassment, bullying, redundancy, if necessary firing people, and so on, while navigating the intricacies and pitfalls of modern employment law, which can get you in deep sh*t if not carefully handled.
And when you think about it all completely unnecessary. I either want you or I don't.
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Old 7th Jan 2022, 21:30
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Originally Posted by Xeptu
The one I have never understood is Human Resources. What a waste of time and resources.
Ha!

Don’t get me started on those leaches.
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Old 8th Jan 2022, 05:35
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HR: "Tell me about a time when you used your superior problem-solving skills to avoid having to use your superior flying skill."

Me: "I stayed in bed."
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Old 9th Jan 2022, 01:02
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Originally Posted by Ascend Charlie
HR: "Tell me about a time when you used your superior problem-solving skills to avoid having to use your superior flying skill."

Me: "I stayed in bed."
Another good one, "Tell us of your hobbies and how we can monetarize them in this company"
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Old 9th Jan 2022, 02:40
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Originally Posted by Cedrik
Another good one, "Tell us of your hobbies and how we can monetarize them in this company"
I make a nice Whiskey, but so does Jack Daniels
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Old 10th Jan 2022, 00:05
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I've only been in the industry for 3 decades but in my time there has always been a chief pilot (now usually called a HOFO) and a head of training. Now if you want to talk useless, oxygen thieving leeches, let's talk HR and safety departments, these 2 were definitely not around back in the day and have grown like cancer.
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Old 10th Jan 2022, 01:47
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Are there really enough drug- and booze-fuelled pilots turning up to work to require DAMP training / testing? What an equine rectum.
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Old 10th Jan 2022, 02:21
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Do the regulators of road, rail & marine transport industries mandate the respective companies have positions similar to that required by the aviation authority.
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Old 11th Jan 2022, 03:25
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Originally Posted by Cedrik
Another good one, "Tell us of your hobbies and how we can monetarize them in this company"
My favourite :
Interviewer: what is your greatest weakness
Me: I'm too honest
Interviewer : I don't see that as a weakness
Me: I don't give a f**k what you think
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Old 13th Jan 2022, 12:20
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Do Accountable Managers have a genuine purpose or is it essentially a feel good title for an operations manual? What are they accountable for?

Last edited by Mr Proach; 13th Jan 2022 at 21:03.
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Old 14th Jan 2022, 23:00
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For the Regulator it is "one throat to choke". Read the legislation or have someone explain it to you.
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Old 15th Jan 2022, 01:50
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Originally Posted by coaldemon
For the Regulator it is "one throat to choke". Read the legislation or have someone explain it to you.
Thanks CD. Would you mind to provide an elaboration of the legislation and an example when/where the regulator has taken that action?
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Old 15th Jan 2022, 02:15
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If an operator has no Chief Pilot approved by CASA the operator cannot lawfully conduct flying operations. A threat by CASA to cancel a Chief Pilot approval, or to delay the approval of an operator’s nominee, gets the operator’s ‘attention’.
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Old 15th Jan 2022, 08:25
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Originally Posted by Lead Balloon
If an operator has no Chief Pilot approved by CASA the operator cannot lawfully conduct flying operations. A threat by CASA to cancel a Chief Pilot approval, or to delay the approval of an operator’s nominee, gets the operator’s ‘attention’.
LB noted. However in my view I do not consider any of these positions are necessary to establish a functional air transport operation. I think you could start an operation and providing the aircrew, engineering and managers abide by the rules (which are very very extensive) then the operation will be compliant and safe. These "titled" positions don't contribute to the functionality of an operation, their main role is to generate and submit paperwork for the regulator who in turns reviews it to see that it is line with their guidelines. What does that achieve? The industry has been conditioned to think these positions are essential, they're not. That is evident by the your mention of CASA & lawful, there is the conditioning. Delete the law that stipulates an operation must have a chief pilot and the engines won't run, the wings won't produce lift, the crew will defy ATC instructions? The whole structure needs to be reviewed.
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Old 15th Jan 2022, 09:09
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Originally Posted by Mr Proach
LB noted. However in my view I do not consider any of these positions are necessary to establish a functional air transport operation. I think you could start an operation and providing the aircrew, engineering and managers abide by the rules (which are very very extensive) then the operation will be compliant and safe. These "titled" positions don't contribute to the functionality of an operation, their main role is to generate and submit paperwork for the regulator who in turns reviews it to see that it is line with their guidelines. What does that achieve? The industry has been conditioned to think these positions are essential, they're not. That is evident by the your mention of CASA & lawful, there is the conditioning. Delete the law that stipulates an operation must have a chief pilot and the engines won't run, the wings won't produce lift, the crew will defy ATC instructions? The whole structure needs to be reviewed.
How far do you want to go with that. I think an operator does need to have good operational oversight and the most appropriate person to do that is an experienced pilot with good people and management skills. If not such a person then who, a bean counter perhaps.
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Old 15th Jan 2022, 09:09
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If an air operator didn’t have a Chief Pilot, the other pilots would descend into unsafe anarchy. It’s what pilots do. (In other words, I agree with you.)
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Old 15th Jan 2022, 11:04
  #38 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Xeptu
How far do you want to go with that. I think an operator does need to have good operational oversight and the most appropriate person to do that is an experienced pilot with good people and management skills. If not such a person then who, a bean counter perhaps.
I concur with your point however, isn't the requirement for operational policies, standardisation etc covered under the regulations? The natural consequence would be to have such a person. An accountant developing SOP's would be an interesting scenario especially MCPs. Interesting that you mention BCs, despite all the regulations and titled positions their influence is growing in many sections of the industry and from what I have seen........ no thank-you.
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Old 15th Jan 2022, 13:21
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Originally Posted by Lead Balloon
If an air operator didn’t have a Chief Pilot, the other pilots would descend into unsafe anarchy. It’s what pilots do. (In other words, I agree with you.)
If an air operator didn’t have a Chief Pilot, the other pilots would be ordered by their boss to descend into unsafe anarchy. It’s what pilots bosses do.

Pilots aren’t the problem. It’s the boss that loses coin when the pilot says the plane’s broken or the weather’s crap - it ain’t going. It’s the boss that says fly it or join the dole queue.

It’s CASA that provides a legal framework to attempt to avoid this - by making one person, other than the pilot, accountable.

I am bewildered that anyone who has flown commercial GA has a problem with this.

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Old 15th Jan 2022, 22:04
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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And you think there’s no existing law prohibiting the boss from ‘ordering’ that?

What’s preventing the operator from giving the ‘order’ to the Chief Pilot?
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