Project Winton- Airbus
Nope. They’ll make more at the regionals over there and have better conditions than Qf 737. Cancellation pay - you’re paid a minimum of what your initial roster is published at. Duty and trip rigs. Four hotels a month if you commute. Bonuses. Better flying. More destinations. Far better atc and procedures. List goes on….
But this is probably more appropriate on the thread for US regionals.
But this is probably more appropriate on the thread for US regionals.
Bonuses whenever management reward themselves which is frequently, out to 9%.
On raw pay Envoy seems to have the best deal, standard hours of $146/hr for a new Captain (not F/O as was stated previously) at most US regionals. At standard hours for Envoy (72 per roster) and the 10 year average AUD/USD exchange rate that’s $180k AUD. However that’s their rates until August 2024 only, so any new Captain joint now would be on less by the time they hit 4 bars.
Compared to mainline SH FO in 2024 on 3rd year pay would be on $206k at the same hours as Envoy.
Bonuses in both US regionals and SH probably even out at the end of the day.
But that’s it for those who went to a US regional, whereas do 4 years SH and then LH and more pay/time off is open for those in mainline.
Now while there’s some whom the US lifestyle will appeal to the majority of Australians training to be pilots will have a career in Australia. There’s always been more money available for Aussie expats overseas since forever, but the majority of pilots elect to remain in their home country.
Last edited by dr dre; 6th Jul 2022 at 11:29.
Not really applicable as that’s a legacy and won’t take E3 applicants. Speaking more to the regionals that are offering over $150p/h for 1st year FO with huge bonuses up to 60k on top. I believe these were introduced with an August 2024 expiry so would suit well to go for a brief period. Regionals over there are rarely career destinations anymore. More a stepping stone to legacy or fedex/ups etc.
Envoy, Piedmont, and PSA. The three wholly owned regionals of American Airlines. Piedmont and PSA currently accepting Aussies on e3s.
Also as far as I can tell out of those Piedmont isn't doing E3's anymore, just PSA. https://piedmont-airlines.com/pilots...ght-deck-faqs/
Also also to everyone else - yes sorry probably should be on the US Visa thread. For info am a group pilot, though..
Well most of that is subjective opinion, but there’s a new form of cancellation pay in SH. Not you’re for hour, but even if you lose time on the SH EBA you get priority in open time, and can easily increase hours over initial roster. It isn’t that difficult and usually end up with more hours. The award works well if you know how to use it. Can also work for flexibility too.
Bonuses whenever management reward themselves which is frequently, out to 9%.
On raw pay Envoy seems to have the best deal, standard hours of $146/hr for a new Captain (not F/O as was stated previously) at most US regionals. At standard hours for Envoy (72 per roster) and the 10 year average AUD/USD exchange rate that’s $180k AUD. However that’s their rates until August 2024 only, so any new Captain joint now would be on less by the time they hit 4 bars.
Compared to mainline SH FO in 2024 on 3rd year pay would be on $206k at the same hours as Envoy.
Bonuses in both US regionals and SH probably even out at the end of the day.
But that’s it for those who went to a US regional, whereas do 4 years SH and then LH and more pay/time off is open for those in mainline.
Now while there’s some whom the US lifestyle will appeal to the majority of Australians training to be pilots will have a career in Australia. There’s always been more money available for Aussie expats overseas since forever, but the majority of pilots elect to remain in their home country.
At the moment people the complaints are “too much flying”. Shortages mean some crew flying 20-30% over rostered hours. Some skippers will probably make close to $400k this FY
Bonuses whenever management reward themselves which is frequently, out to 9%.
On raw pay Envoy seems to have the best deal, standard hours of $146/hr for a new Captain (not F/O as was stated previously) at most US regionals. At standard hours for Envoy (72 per roster) and the 10 year average AUD/USD exchange rate that’s $180k AUD. However that’s their rates until August 2024 only, so any new Captain joint now would be on less by the time they hit 4 bars.
Compared to mainline SH FO in 2024 on 3rd year pay would be on $206k at the same hours as Envoy.
Bonuses in both US regionals and SH probably even out at the end of the day.
But that’s it for those who went to a US regional, whereas do 4 years SH and then LH and more pay/time off is open for those in mainline.
Now while there’s some whom the US lifestyle will appeal to the majority of Australians training to be pilots will have a career in Australia. There’s always been more money available for Aussie expats overseas since forever, but the majority of pilots elect to remain in their home country.
At the moment people the complaints are “too much flying”. Shortages mean some crew flying 20-30% over rostered hours. Some skippers will probably make close to $400k this FY
I think the cancellation pay I speak of is very different to yours. Anything gets cancelled for weather, maintenance, etc, you get paid. You don’t then have to then go and make part of it up. Should you choose to fly more, that’s on top. Also, if you hold for an hour, then get in and your block time is 3 hours rather than 1.5, you get the higher amount.
In regards to your time for ‘4 bars’ that’s 1000 hours in the right seat which you’ll have in a little over a year. However, once you reach 750 hours, you’ll also be paid Captain pay.
Bonuses are 15k until 950 hours then you get 30k. Then upgrade and get 40k. This can all be achieved in 18 months.
There are also duty rigs which I’m not going to though on here. Reading APC can give you some numbers but it’s hard to get a true understanding of what it all means and how it works especially tying into where you live. Best to talk to someone that’s doing it for those that are interested which doesn’t seem to be you Dre. What works for some, may not work for others but without a firm grasp of it, may be best to ask rather than tell. 👍
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American Airlines says it will hike pay for 14,000 pilots even higher than originally proposed, as the industry faces a crippling labor shortage - Business Insider
"Our team will be paid well and be paid competitively. You are not going to fall behind network peers," CEO Robert Isom told pilots in a video message sent Monday, seen by CNBC.
Isom described a pre-pandemic proposal made to unions — of an initial 4% increase, followed by a 3% increase annually — as "industry-leading at the time." However, "the standard for compensation has gone up" as a result of the pandemic, he said, per CNBC.
Again I’m not certain how quoting US rates and contracts is relevant?
I’ve said it elsewhere, and I’ll repeat, the US has;
- the 1500hr rule
- most if not all contracts have scope clauses
-government, policy, advocacy, and industry that values and nurtures Aviation and it’s associated industries
- and the US tends to protect their local labor by having a far more restrictive and measured immigration/skilled migrant programs that the relative free for all here.
Australia has none of of these things, and to add to that, CEOs can simply lock out employees/shut down a company if they don’t get their way industrially. This makes it almost impossible to achieve the kind of gains that US pilots are getting. Improvement is possible, but it tends to be far more incremental and usually limited in what can be achieved with each round of negotiation.
Most Qantas pilots are entrenched in the seniority system for well over a decade, they have husbands/ wives, families, own homes AND are on a pretty good wicket compared to many of their friends inside and outside aviation. There aren’t too many of them that would up and leave to the US (requiring resignation, mind you, not just leave without pay), unless it was straight into a Major (which isn’t happening), so the comparison is pointless.
Outside of the US I can think of no value proposition that beats QF mainline. Show me (oh and MY WIFE!) otherwise.
I’ve said it elsewhere, and I’ll repeat, the US has;
- the 1500hr rule
- most if not all contracts have scope clauses
-government, policy, advocacy, and industry that values and nurtures Aviation and it’s associated industries
- and the US tends to protect their local labor by having a far more restrictive and measured immigration/skilled migrant programs that the relative free for all here.
Australia has none of of these things, and to add to that, CEOs can simply lock out employees/shut down a company if they don’t get their way industrially. This makes it almost impossible to achieve the kind of gains that US pilots are getting. Improvement is possible, but it tends to be far more incremental and usually limited in what can be achieved with each round of negotiation.
Most Qantas pilots are entrenched in the seniority system for well over a decade, they have husbands/ wives, families, own homes AND are on a pretty good wicket compared to many of their friends inside and outside aviation. There aren’t too many of them that would up and leave to the US (requiring resignation, mind you, not just leave without pay), unless it was straight into a Major (which isn’t happening), so the comparison is pointless.
Outside of the US I can think of no value proposition that beats QF mainline. Show me (oh and MY WIFE!) otherwise.
Maybe before you go to the USA with stars/$$ in your eyes, do a bit of research on where the US economy is headed, down the toilet. Those brilliant minds in government and the Fed have printed so much money inflation is approaching double figures and some "experts" are saying that a recession is almost a certainty and they're even talking depression. I'll leave it to you to work out what happens to expats when the economy is in the toilet. Hopefully, for everyone's sakes the "experts" are wrong and you can enjoy living in a country with close to the worst rate of gun related homicides in the world.
So go to the USA, doesn’t take a genius to know $250k per year for a Dash 8 Skipper is not sustainable. Good luck when the economy tanks and you join the furlough ranks.
Quite the opposite, I am literally saying to go and take advantage of these amazing contracts. I spent many years flying overseas for some pretty big airlines and it was great, the money was better and the opportunities were better. What NONE of them could offer me was a job at home. Australian and New Zealand airlines know there is a premium that pilots put on flying for a home based airline especially the flag carrier. I am also warning you that these types of contracts won't last, yes you can get stood down in Australia but at no where near the frequency of the furloughs common in the USA. Qantas will NEVER offer 14% pay rises as they are working from a position of an oversupply of people who want to fly for them, why else do you get highly experienced Captains from other overseas airlines returning to Oz to fly as an SO for Qantas? If Qantas runs out of 'locals' willing to fly for them, do you think they would have any trouble attracting overseas talent?
Never seen such dribble on both sides of a thread drift argument.................If you want to go to the US, Asia, Europe or wherever then weigh it up and do it. If you want to stay living in Australia then weigh up those considerations and do it. Who really cares about what a bunch of Pprune posts say (this post included).
So go to the USA, doesn’t take a genius to know $250k per year for a Dash 8 Skipper is not sustainable. Good luck when the economy tanks and you join the furlough ranks.
Better stay in Australia and take a pay cut and give up all your conditions just to be safe.
Never seen such dribble on both sides of a thread drift argument.................If you want to go to the US, Asia, Europe or wherever then weigh it up and do it. If you want to stay living in Australia then weigh up those considerations and do it. Who really cares about what a bunch of Pprune posts say (this post included).
If you don’t think the grass is greener in the US, then put up and shut up in Aus. If you do then great, go.
Either way, just stop whinging.
The A321 XLR has just completed am 11 hour proving flight. https://www.flightradar24.com/blog/a...route-proving/
Who gets to fly the XLRs first? Qantas or Jetstar?
Who gets to fly the XLRs first? Qantas or Jetstar?
