Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Project Winton- Airbus

Old 6th Jul 2022, 10:21
  #201 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by stillcallozhome View Post
Nope. Theyíll make more at the regionals over there and have better conditions than Qf 737. Cancellation pay - youíre paid a minimum of what your initial roster is published at. Duty and trip rigs. Four hotels a month if you commute. Bonuses. Better flying. More destinations. Far better atc and procedures. List goes onÖ.

But this is probably more appropriate on the thread for US regionals.
Well most of that is subjective opinion, but thereís a new form of cancellation pay in SH. Not youíre for hour, but even if you lose time on the SH EBA you get priority in open time, and can easily increase hours over initial roster. It isnít that difficult and usually end up with more hours. The award works well if you know how to use it. Can also work for flexibility too.

Bonuses whenever management reward themselves which is frequently, out to 9%.

On raw pay Envoy seems to have the best deal, standard hours of $146/hr for a new Captain (not F/O as was stated previously) at most US regionals. At standard hours for Envoy (72 per roster) and the 10 year average AUD/USD exchange rate thatís $180k AUD. However thatís their rates until August 2024 only, so any new Captain joint now would be on less by the time they hit 4 bars.

Compared to mainline SH FO in 2024 on 3rd year pay would be on $206k at the same hours as Envoy.

Bonuses in both US regionals and SH probably even out at the end of the day.

But thatís it for those who went to a US regional, whereas do 4 years SH and then LH and more pay/time off is open for those in mainline.

Now while thereís some whom the US lifestyle will appeal to the majority of Australians training to be pilots will have a career in Australia. Thereís always been more money available for Aussie expats overseas since forever, but the majority of pilots elect to remain in their home country.

Originally Posted by Vindiesel View Post
If they want to "actually fly airlplaes" then it's a very quick path to becoming a 737 F/O in mainline and able to make ~180-200k on comfortable hours. Seems a lot better than flogging around for a second tier US carrier.
At the moment people the complaints are ďtoo much flyingĒ. Shortages mean some crew flying 20-30% over rostered hours. Some skippers will probably make close to $400k this FY






Last edited by dr dre; 6th Jul 2022 at 11:29.
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Old 6th Jul 2022, 10:24
  #202 (permalink)  
 
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Old 6th Jul 2022, 10:58
  #203 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by stillcallozhome View Post
Not really applicable as thatís a legacy and wonít take E3 applicants. Speaking more to the regionals that are offering over $150p/h for 1st year FO with huge bonuses up to 60k on top. I believe these were introduced with an August 2024 expiry so would suit well to go for a brief period. Regionals over there are rarely career destinations anymore. More a stepping stone to legacy or fedex/ups etc.
If you happen to know, which are the highest paying regionals at the moment? Looks like a good way to get the FAA ATP to start with if they're paying that well, spend a couple of years then consider other E3 options.
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Old 6th Jul 2022, 11:37
  #204 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ZebraFlyer View Post
If you happen to know, which are the highest paying regionals at the moment? Looks like a good way to get the FAA ATP to start with if they're paying that well, spend a couple of years then consider other E3 options.
Envoy, Piedmont, and PSA. The three wholly owned regionals of American Airlines. Piedmont and PSA currently accepting Aussies on e3s.
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Old 6th Jul 2022, 11:50
  #205 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ThunderstormFactory View Post
Envoy, Piedmont, and PSA. The three wholly owned regionals of American Airlines. Piedmont and PSA currently accepting Aussies on e3s.
Thanks for the reply, I figured it was the AA wholly owned! I found this which was pretty handy for comparing the regional first year pay scales, may be of use to others: https://atpflightschool.com/become-a...pilot-pay.html

Also as far as I can tell out of those Piedmont isn't doing E3's anymore, just PSA. https://piedmont-airlines.com/pilots...ght-deck-faqs/

Also also to everyone else - yes sorry probably should be on the US Visa thread. For info am a group pilot, though..
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Old 6th Jul 2022, 13:20
  #206 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by dr dre View Post
Well most of that is subjective opinion, but thereís a new form of cancellation pay in SH. Not youíre for hour, but even if you lose time on the SH EBA you get priority in open time, and can easily increase hours over initial roster. It isnít that difficult and usually end up with more hours. The award works well if you know how to use it. Can also work for flexibility too.

Bonuses whenever management reward themselves which is frequently, out to 9%.

On raw pay Envoy seems to have the best deal, standard hours of $146/hr for a new Captain (not F/O as was stated previously) at most US regionals. At standard hours for Envoy (72 per roster) and the 10 year average AUD/USD exchange rate thatís $180k AUD. However thatís their rates until August 2024 only, so any new Captain joint now would be on less by the time they hit 4 bars.

Compared to mainline SH FO in 2024 on 3rd year pay would be on $206k at the same hours as Envoy.

Bonuses in both US regionals and SH probably even out at the end of the day.

But thatís it for those who went to a US regional, whereas do 4 years SH and then LH and more pay/time off is open for those in mainline.

Now while thereís some whom the US lifestyle will appeal to the majority of Australians training to be pilots will have a career in Australia. Thereís always been more money available for Aussie expats overseas since forever, but the majority of pilots elect to remain in their home country.



At the moment people the complaints are ďtoo much flyingĒ. Shortages mean some crew flying 20-30% over rostered hours. Some skippers will probably make close to $400k this FY
Not really sure how most is subjective but some of the comments on atc etc are.

I think the cancellation pay I speak of is very different to yours. Anything gets cancelled for weather, maintenance, etc, you get paid. You donít then have to then go and make part of it up. Should you choose to fly more, thatís on top. Also, if you hold for an hour, then get in and your block time is 3 hours rather than 1.5, you get the higher amount.

In regards to your time for Ď4 barsí thatís 1000 hours in the right seat which youíll have in a little over a year. However, once you reach 750 hours, youíll also be paid Captain pay.

Bonuses are 15k until 950 hours then you get 30k. Then upgrade and get 40k. This can all be achieved in 18 months.

There are also duty rigs which Iím not going to though on here. Reading APC can give you some numbers but itís hard to get a true understanding of what it all means and how it works especially tying into where you live. Best to talk to someone thatís doing it for those that are interested which doesnít seem to be you Dre. What works for some, may not work for others but without a firm grasp of it, may be best to ask rather than tell. 👍

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Old 22nd Jul 2022, 02:11
  #207 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Thumb War View Post
I hear the United union arenít pleased with 14.5% in light of the better offer made to AA
Meanwhile (still) in 2022:
American Airlines says it will hike pay for 14,000 pilots even higher than originally proposed, as the industry faces a crippling labor shortage - Business Insider


"Our team will be paid well and be paid competitively. You are not going to fall behind network peers," CEO Robert Isom told pilots in a video message sent Monday, seen by CNBC.
Isom described a pre-pandemic proposal made to unions ó of an initial 4% increase, followed by a 3% increase annually ó as "industry-leading at the time." However, "the standard for compensation has gone up" as a result of the pandemic, he said, per CNBC.
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Old 22nd Jul 2022, 19:29
  #208 (permalink)  
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Startup feeder airline in US - Dash8 captains on us$250k


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Old 23rd Jul 2022, 04:12
  #209 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
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Again Iím not certain how quoting US rates and contracts is relevant?

Iíve said it elsewhere, and Iíll repeat, the US has;

- the 1500hr rule

- most if not all contracts have scope clauses

-government, policy, advocacy, and industry that values and nurtures Aviation and itís associated industries

- and the US tends to protect their local labor by having a far more restrictive and measured immigration/skilled migrant programs that the relative free for all here.


Australia has none of of these things, and to add to that, CEOs can simply lock out employees/shut down a company if they donít get their way industrially. This makes it almost impossible to achieve the kind of gains that US pilots are getting. Improvement is possible, but it tends to be far more incremental and usually limited in what can be achieved with each round of negotiation.

Most Qantas pilots are entrenched in the seniority system for well over a decade, they have husbands/ wives, families, own homes AND are on a pretty good wicket compared to many of their friends inside and outside aviation. There arenít too many of them that would up and leave to the US (requiring resignation, mind you, not just leave without pay), unless it was straight into a Major (which isnít happening), so the comparison is pointless.

Outside of the US I can think of no value proposition that beats QF mainline. Show me (oh and MY WIFE!) otherwise.
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Old 23rd Jul 2022, 05:46
  #210 (permalink)  
 
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Maybe before you go to the USA with stars/$$ in your eyes, do a bit of research on where the US economy is headed, down the toilet. Those brilliant minds in government and the Fed have printed so much money inflation is approaching double figures and some "experts" are saying that a recession is almost a certainty and they're even talking depression. I'll leave it to you to work out what happens to expats when the economy is in the toilet. Hopefully, for everyone's sakes the "experts" are wrong and you can enjoy living in a country with close to the worst rate of gun related homicides in the world.
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Old 23rd Jul 2022, 08:06
  #211 (permalink)  
 
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So go to the USA, doesn’t take a genius to know $250k per year for a Dash 8 Skipper is not sustainable. Good luck when the economy tanks and you join the furlough ranks.
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Old 23rd Jul 2022, 09:04
  #212 (permalink)  
 
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Better stay in Australia and take a pay cut and give up all your conditions just to be safe.
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Old 23rd Jul 2022, 11:12
  #213 (permalink)  
 
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Quite the opposite, I am literally saying to go and take advantage of these amazing contracts. I spent many years flying overseas for some pretty big airlines and it was great, the money was better and the opportunities were better. What NONE of them could offer me was a job at home. Australian and New Zealand airlines know there is a premium that pilots put on flying for a home based airline especially the flag carrier. I am also warning you that these types of contracts won't last, yes you can get stood down in Australia but at no where near the frequency of the furloughs common in the USA. Qantas will NEVER offer 14% pay rises as they are working from a position of an oversupply of people who want to fly for them, why else do you get highly experienced Captains from other overseas airlines returning to Oz to fly as an SO for Qantas? If Qantas runs out of 'locals' willing to fly for them, do you think they would have any trouble attracting overseas talent?
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Old 23rd Jul 2022, 23:42
  #214 (permalink)  
 
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Never seen such dribble on both sides of a thread drift argument.................If you want to go to the US, Asia, Europe or wherever then weigh it up and do it. If you want to stay living in Australia then weigh up those considerations and do it. Who really cares about what a bunch of PPRuNe posts say (this post included).
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Old 23rd Jul 2022, 23:50
  #215 (permalink)  
 
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So go to the USA, doesn’t take a genius to know $250k per year for a Dash 8 Skipper is not sustainable. Good luck when the economy tanks and you join the furlough ranks.
Better stay in Australia and take a pay cut and give up all your conditions just to be safe.
Says it all really
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Old 24th Jul 2022, 00:24
  #216 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BO0M View Post
Never seen such dribble on both sides of a thread drift argument.................If you want to go to the US, Asia, Europe or wherever then weigh it up and do it. If you want to stay living in Australia then weigh up those considerations and do it. Who really cares about what a bunch of PPRuNe posts say (this post included).
Gold!

If you donít think the grass is greener in the US, then put up and shut up in Aus. If you do then great, go.

Either way, just stop whinging.
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