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Virgin 3.1

Old 18th Nov 2021, 19:09
  #301 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Australia
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Originally Posted by anonfly View Post
800 pilots have a right of return for 5yrs. All a little complex
The answer is yes and no. If a pilot bids for a position and then turns it down they are on an administrative freeze for 18months (locked out).
Also some pilots are working elsewhere and may have decided not to come back. Others have taken the redundancy and moved on. Others will be restricted by what bases are on offer. Ex VAINZ pilots will be required to move to Australia. So while there is 800 pilots in a pool the company can tap on the shoulder for the next 5yrs not all will take up the offer. The important date is October 2024 for any pilots that may be wishing to turn down a role as if they turn down a role after that date they would effectively be locked out for 18months and fall of the list come April 2026. It would interesting to see if Virgin re offers a position or would externally recruit.
Realistically I can’t see external positions being offered until after the 5yrs. 800 pilots is a lot of growth and retirements regardless of the mechanics involved with right of return.
The right of return is for 10 years I believe.

Those returning pilots maintain their GDOJ (seniority) number if they return prior to April ‘26.

After that date, all those pilots lose their GDOJ number, but still hold priority to return over an external applicant for a further 5 years except when the pilot does return in that case, they will have lost their seniority and now be at the bottom of the list for promotion or base transfer.
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Old 21st Nov 2021, 08:25
  #302 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Sunshine Coast
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And in related news.

Virgin Australia’s chief of corporate affairs, Moksha Watts, quits after behaviour review
By ROBYN IRONSIDE, AVIATION WRITER
NOVEMBER 21, 2021

Virgin Australia’s chief of corporate affairs has quit less than a year into the role, amid an internal review of her workplace behaviour.

CEO Jayne Hrdlicka announced the resignation of Moksha Watts to staff on Sunday in an internal memo, which was seen by The Australian.

Ms Hrdlicka noted Ms Watts had taken the decision “in the midst of an ongoing internal review about her workplace behaviour”.

“She felt it was in her best interests and the best interests of the company to resign,” wrote Ms Hrdlicka.

“Moksha joined Virgin Australia in March 2021 and has done a significant and valued job with governments, key stakeholders and crafting the company’s sustainability policy.”

Ms Watts was one of six appointments to Virgin’s “executive leadership team” soon after the sale of the airline to US private equity firm Bain Capital.

She joined Virgin Australia after a seven-month stint with The Arnott’s Group, and previously spent four years with Qantas and Jetstar, where she got to know Ms Hrdlicka, a former Jetstar CEO.

The University of Sydney arts and science graduate also worked as an adviser to former Labor prime minister Kevin Rudd in 2013, following stints with Anthony Albanese and Jenny Macklin.

Ms Watts’ resignation from Virgin came after a significant turnover of staff in the corporate affairs department.

Since the sale to Bain Capital only one employee remained in the same role, with at least five others leaving the airline.

Virgin’s chief people officer Lisa Burquest would takeover Ms Watts’ responsibilities immediately, Ms Hrdlicka said in her message to staff.

“At Virgin Australia we work hard to ensure our workplace is a safe and positive workplace for everyone and we strive to live our values every day,” said Ms Hrdlicka.

“Grievances of any nature will be taken seriously and we follow due process in investigating in order to be fair to everyone involved.”
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...6dfb44bd341189

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Old 21st Nov 2021, 10:51
  #303 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Oz
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They need someone like that in Flight Ops Management. Send them in, everyone leaves, and finally for once they can start fresh again. Finally Finally Finally. Looooooong Overdue. We live in hope.
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Old 21st Nov 2021, 14:54
  #304 (permalink)  
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This is where the plot has long being lost . She had an arts degree, was a labor staffer, sold biscuits .. and this made her qualified to do what in an airline? No wonder the industry is in a mess. And the only ones who get the big bonuses have no idea what an aircraft and its crew actually does.
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Old 21st Nov 2021, 20:19
  #305 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by MickG0105 View Post
Staff meetings would’ve been good though. Imagine all those Tim Tams and Monte Carlo’s being brought along! Lots of flair.
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Old 21st Nov 2021, 21:38
  #306 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
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Poppa Jo, I know of one former flight ops manager who was made redundant who has written to the CEO and COO expressing concern about how flight ops is run and the culture in the department. He showed me his very brief, condescending response from the COO and a blank piece of paper showing the response from the CEO.

I am amazed that the COO has lasted this long
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Old 21st Nov 2021, 22:31
  #307 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
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Originally Posted by Paragraph377 View Post
Staff meetings would’ve been good though. Imagine all those Tim Tams and Monte Carlo’s being brought along! Lots of flair.
Probably be out of date/time expires leftovers.

Wouldn't want to waste the good stuff on the pleb workers!
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Old 22nd Nov 2021, 01:27
  #308 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
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Originally Posted by SOPS View Post
This is where the plot has long being lost . She had an arts degree, was a labor staffer, sold biscuits .. and this made her qualified to do what in an airline? No wonder the industry is in a mess. And the only ones who get the big bonuses have no idea what an aircraft and its crew actually does.
AND, the company has a long-standing habit of - as soon as someone shows they actually DO know something about airlines - out they go. Those without the necessary aviation background or rather, with ZERO aviation background, just can't stand to have anyone who knows what they're doing, hanging around.

This was the case under previous CEOs as well. You just need to look at the number of people who were shown the door while the MRB was in charge. To be fair, his only experience when it comes right down to it, was selling tickets essentially. Sure, people can be put 'in charge' of things or departments, but when those departments are well established and reasonably self-managing, the latter doesn't change much and the former gets to walk away and include that in their 'resume' when they likely never understood any of it at all.
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Old 22nd Nov 2021, 01:32
  #309 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
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Originally Posted by Dehavillanddriver View Post
Poppa Jo, I know of one former flight ops manager who was made redundant who has written to the CEO and COO expressing concern about how flight ops is run and the culture in the department. He showed me his very brief, condescending response from the COO and a blank piece of paper showing the response from the CEO.

I am amazed that the COO has lasted this long
I am too - I'm surprised ANYONE survived but then again, I'm not really. The person I think you're talking about is another that has had a meteoric rise and of all those in the previous management team, would seem that should have been the first to go.

I think I know who you might be talking about in terms of the former Flt Ops person - let's face it, if they knew what they were doing, they wouldn't want them around. That's not their way, first qualification is to enter a room in an upbeat voice and wish everyone a 'happy Monday', followed by a string of management-speak gibberish.

No aviation experience required.

Last edited by AerialPerspective; 22nd Nov 2021 at 01:45.
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Old 22nd Nov 2021, 05:32
  #310 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by AerialPerspective View Post
I am too - I'm surprised ANYONE survived but then again, I'm not really. The person I think you're talking about is another that has had a meteoric rise and of all those in the previous management team, would seem that should have been the first to go.

I think I know who you might be talking about in terms of the former Flt Ops person - let's face it, if they knew what they were doing, they wouldn't want them around. That's not their way, first qualification is to enter a room in an upbeat voice and wish everyone a 'happy Monday', followed by a string of management-speak gibberish.

No aviation experience required.

So true so true 🤣 🤣 🤣
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Old 22nd Nov 2021, 09:48
  #311 (permalink)  
 
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Not sure who you were thinking of but the one I spoke to was well regarded by most as far as I can tell
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Old 23rd Nov 2021, 03:08
  #312 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
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Originally Posted by Dehavillanddriver View Post
Not sure who you were thinking of but the one I spoke to was well regarded by most as far as I can tell
Too many good people who could have taken that company into a fit financial state and contributed exponentially to its success were cast aside.

People I've known and trust in the industry who were a dead-set coup for VA to obtain and have work for them, even in project roles, because of their depth of experience and proven track record, were disposed of after being attacked by the incompetent, know-nothing 'high school' mafia (meaning mostly sh-t kickers straight out of High School who know nothing) and highly qualified 'Advisors' (qualified in highly aviation related academic pursuits such as 'arts'). I'm not against academia at all, I believe the purpose of any tertiary area of study is more about expanding a person's mind than the resultant qualification, teaching them to think outside the box so to speak. But, while those people existed in the past, they were always tempered and their influence ameliorated by professional airline people who knew the business, knew the mechanics of how it all fit together and had a grasp of what industry they were in.

Now, anything goes. Some of the people I've seen over the years came into senior positions with direct affect on operational performance and decision-making who's sum total aviation experience was working in the gaming room at a casino, being a crew trainer at McDonalds or working in a retail chain. Not that those people can't make good airline employees eventually, but you start them at check in or marketing, not as the head of a major department that has an affect on people's lives.

I suspect it's not just airlines though, but all through industry. Once narcissists and Dunning-Kruger types got into some positions of power, down went the quality of leadership and up went the salaries and the extent to which seriously senior people were utterly out of their depth. People who's ego runs a mile wide and their substance about a millimetre deep.
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Old 23rd Nov 2021, 03:13
  #313 (permalink)  
 
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There's more to this story. Former staff are speaking to the Australian so it's a hatchet job. Ms. Watts has pi$$ed off someone, somewhere, for some reason.
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Old 23rd Nov 2021, 03:41
  #314 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
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Originally Posted by DirectAnywhere View Post
There's more to this story. Former staff are speaking to the Australian so it's a hatchet job. Ms. Watts has pi$$ed off someone, somewhere, for some reason.

i can’t see anything getting better when the chief people officer, and what a fecking ridiculous title that is, takes over. I have met only two people from HR that I would consider actually feeding let alone paying a grossly inflated salary to. Useless the lot of them and if anyone is going to suck up to management and do exactly what they say without question it is someone from hr. Given Ms Watts has left under a cloud, due to what appears to be behavioural issues causing everyone else in her team to leave, one wonders what exactly HR and specifically the head of it, ie the person now replacing Ms Watts, actually did to correct her behaviour and make sure she lived by the values the company no doubt spouts but clearly doesn’t live by. Oh except after everyone has left and they absolutely HAVE to do something.

oh, and there is also this…. Perhaps this goes some way to explain why Ms Watts, being a Ms and not a Mr was hired in the first place..

During her years at Bain, Jayne Hrdlicka was instrumental in promoting women's leadership both within the firm and the business community. She helped to launch (with Chief Executive Women) an Australian version of a major research study on gender parity that Bain has conducted for some years.Although the gender mix is changing in many companies, it will never feel enough until there is more visibility, she says.

"Qantas domestic and international has 50 per cent [women in top roles], with Jetstar and Frequent Flyer CEOs. So from that perspective we are in good shape. But we have got a big job in Jetstar. Our business doesn't have good balance in the executive team but great women through the business. We have to create the opportunities."

also interesting article noting all the Bain connections of the current leadership group.

https://www.consultancy.com.au/news/...team-of-virgin


Last edited by Foxxster; 23rd Nov 2021 at 04:00.
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Old 23rd Nov 2021, 06:13
  #315 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
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Who give a flying F$&k what gender is in the role!! Best person for the job. I would hate being a women in this time, being promoted into senior roles then having to convince everyone it’s on merit and not your gender. I fly with females they’re pi$$ed as this current change is diluting the hard work they have done to get to where they are on their merit, not because of their gender.
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Old 23rd Nov 2021, 06:34
  #316 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
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Originally Posted by SHVC View Post
Who give a flying F$&k what gender is in the role!! Best person for the job. I would hate being a women in this time, being promoted into senior roles then having to convince everyone it’s own merit and not your gender. I fly with females they’re pi$$ed as this current change is diluting the hard work they have done to get to where they are on their merit, not because of their gender.
Well, this is the problem. Now they promote based on Gender and not Merit, and what I have seen as of late is absolutely appalling, I find it hard to take many female managers seriously anymore as most of them got there based on their gender and are clearly way out of their depths. This is breeding resentment towards females in the workplace, this is doing a serious disservice to all females who have worked hard for their positions. I am also seeing many men walk away from the workforce because of this as there is clearly no progression for them, and all their hard work and experience means nothing and they are overlooked as they are the wrong gender. Many are either starting their own businesses or leaving altogether. Employers are going to have very serious problems in the coming years!
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Old 23rd Nov 2021, 08:43
  #317 (permalink)  
 
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That’s kinda the point I was trying to make.
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Old 25th Nov 2021, 08:41
  #318 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
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Originally Posted by Zeta_Reticuli View Post
Well, this is the problem. Now they promote based on Gender and not Merit, and what I have seen as of late is absolutely appalling, I find it hard to take many female managers seriously anymore as most of them got there based on their gender and are clearly way out of their depths. This is breeding resentment towards females in the workplace, this is doing a serious disservice to all females who have worked hard for their positions. I am also seeing many men walk away from the workforce because of this as there is clearly no progression for them, and all their hard work and experience means nothing and they are overlooked as they are the wrong gender. Many are either starting their own businesses or leaving altogether. Employers are going to have very serious problems in the coming years!
I am all for gender diversity and the right person for the job - however, I hear what you're saying and have at least on one occasion been told in private about a job that was advertised "It's going to be a woman, so that the division meets its target of women in management." This in an organisation that has been a financial disaster.

I agree with quotas in politics and think the LNP is just dumb for rejecting it because in that realm, it is not a highly technical and critical task that is being carried out but one where we would want the most diverse set of voices contribute to ensure all sides are covered BUT, when it's something like a highly technical business that requires serious knowledge of the operations because people's lives are in jeopardy, it has to be the best person for the job.

The answer here, to achieve some form of diversity, is to institute programs that feed the aviation sector to encourage women to participate.

In the example I cited above, it was my impression that it wouldn't matter which woman it was, as long as the successful applicant was a woman - I think any woman would feel that that is not how they would like to attain their job.
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Old 25th Nov 2021, 11:32
  #319 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
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I agree with quotas in politics and think
The moment they bring in quotas then I expect to see it across the board, no cherry picking. 50% taxi drivers to be women, 50% plumbers etc. Old mate AJ talked about 50% female pilots, no mention of 50% engineers to be women, or baggage handlers or ground staff driving the tug, Or 50% cabin crew and check in staff to be men. Oh no we want 50% women only in management roles and parliament.
All or none.
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Old 25th Nov 2021, 21:16
  #320 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
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I reckon I'd settle for even 5% to be hired to drive the poo-mobile (apologies for a lack of a more correct term, but this job seems to be almost exclusively the realm of men for some reason)
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