REX to transition to ATRs, start domestic jet ops
That's all I was alluding to, all this jumping up and down about Rex when QF has been milking the cash cow as well.
The only one that missed the train was VA, but that was mostly because AJ tore out some tracks in their path by claiming that QF would not need subsidies so why should they get it. Hence why now QF accounts government subsidies under 'customer revenue'.
The only one that missed the train was VA, but that was mostly because AJ tore out some tracks in their path by claiming that QF would not need subsidies so why should they get it. Hence why now QF accounts government subsidies under 'customer revenue'.
For the period 15 March 2020 - February 2022, exclusive of JobKeeper payments
Qantas
Grants .................... $ 785,717,581.59 (35 percent of total assistance)
Subsidies ............... $1,456,530,018.48 (65 percent)
Total assistance ... $2,242,247,600.07
Pre-pandemic
FY19 revenue ....... $17,966,000,000
Total assistance as a percentage of FY19 Revenue ... 12.48 percent
Virgin (aka "The only one that missed the train")
Grants .................... $ 238,745,905.29 (27.6 percent)
Subsidies ............... $ 626,970,954.33 (72.4 percent)
Total assistance ... $ 865,716,859.62
Pre-pandemic
FY19 revenue ....... $ 5,827,100,000
Total assistance as a percentage of FY19 Revenue ... 14.86 percent
Rex
Grants ................... $ 154,816,418.00 (99.2 percent)
Subsidies .................. $ 1,292,544.00 (0.8 percent)
Total assistance ... $ 156,108,962.00
Pre-pandemic
FY19 revenue ....... $ 317,649,000
Total assistance as a percentage of FY19 Revenue ... 49.15 percent
Far from missing the train, Virgin have actually received more than Qantas in terms of support as a percentage of pre-pandemic revenue. And as a proportion of pre-pandemic revenue, Rex has received more government assistance than both Qantas and Virgin combined! And note that essentially all of Rex's assistance came by way of grants (money for nothing) rather than subsidies (money for or to support operations).
So, let's not try to dress this up as everyone having the same go at milking the cash cow.
Last edited by MickG0105; 28th Apr 2022 at 19:44. Reason: Formatting
And why are you comparing total revenue? QF revenue includes a lot of external to aviation sources not related to the airline, where rex revenue is almost entirely airline related. You are comparing cyclones, typhoons and oranges as rex got most of its subsidy from one source RANS. QLink received the same amount, why, because it was to fund regional connections.
Not sure where you get the grants section or Rex, the major funding question is purely the $80 million provided by RANS, please list the grants that added to $150mil?
Proportionally Rex received the same amount of funding for doing the same thing that the Qantas group did, ie the amount paid to QLink to service regional communities was the same amount. What you are saying is that both Rex and QF operated the same aircraft to say Wagga and both were charged $1000 for landing fees, Rex could jump up and down saying that relative to our net revenue we should be charged 20 times less. Well in this case QLink and Rex say that they both cost $3000 per flight to service Wagga, so they claim that from RANS. Qantas then compares that to net revenue and says thats not fair we should get 20 times more because of our total revenue??? The other claims are Job Keeper for Rex and Qlink, and everyone got that, which probably amounts to about half the per employee costs over two years.
BTW rex government funding includes Job Keeper, not excludes, RANS only amounted to about half that $150mil the rest is mostly Job Keeper. The same goes for VA, the vast majority being JK, how you come up with the other figures is unknown.
I'll also add RANS was a subsidy for operating a route, to break even, any passenger fares taken for the route removed the same amount of government funding until it was funded entirely by passenger/freight revenue. If RANS had not existed the routes would have been mothballed until the end of covid, meaning the 1-5 essential workers who used each flight, such as doctors, essential shift workers etc that traveled would have had to drive, or find alternative options which may have pushed them to not travel at all. DANS covered the minimum domestic network that QF domestic used, as those flights were able to attract more passengers they resulted in less overall subsidy.
Not sure where you get the grants section or Rex, the major funding question is purely the $80 million provided by RANS, please list the grants that added to $150mil?
Proportionally Rex received the same amount of funding for doing the same thing that the Qantas group did, ie the amount paid to QLink to service regional communities was the same amount. What you are saying is that both Rex and QF operated the same aircraft to say Wagga and both were charged $1000 for landing fees, Rex could jump up and down saying that relative to our net revenue we should be charged 20 times less. Well in this case QLink and Rex say that they both cost $3000 per flight to service Wagga, so they claim that from RANS. Qantas then compares that to net revenue and says thats not fair we should get 20 times more because of our total revenue??? The other claims are Job Keeper for Rex and Qlink, and everyone got that, which probably amounts to about half the per employee costs over two years.
BTW rex government funding includes Job Keeper, not excludes, RANS only amounted to about half that $150mil the rest is mostly Job Keeper. The same goes for VA, the vast majority being JK, how you come up with the other figures is unknown.
I'll also add RANS was a subsidy for operating a route, to break even, any passenger fares taken for the route removed the same amount of government funding until it was funded entirely by passenger/freight revenue. If RANS had not existed the routes would have been mothballed until the end of covid, meaning the 1-5 essential workers who used each flight, such as doctors, essential shift workers etc that traveled would have had to drive, or find alternative options which may have pushed them to not travel at all. DANS covered the minimum domestic network that QF domestic used, as those flights were able to attract more passengers they resulted in less overall subsidy.
Last edited by 43Inches; 28th Apr 2022 at 23:02.
And why wouldn't you when you are trying to draw a reasonable comparison between the funding to the three airlines of varying sizes and complexities. The government grants and subsidies were, by and large, mechanisms to plug the airline revenues lost or foregone due to the pandemic and government restrictions. Using revenue is the most logical mechanism for pro-rating the value of the grants and subsidies such that you have a comparable base.
QF revenue attributable to non-aviation activities runs to about 7 percent; it's about 3 percent for Rex. They're not miles apart.
Maybe if you want to think of Qantas, Virgin and Rex as a cyclone, a typhoon and an orange respectively. The mechanism that allows you to compare all three on an equitable basis is to pro-rate against a known factor such as revenue. Or you could use number of employees, number of pax/km flown, etc. It's how you do meaningful comparative analysis.
Thankfully for informed analysis, I am very sure where I get the grants data for Rex from. From the government's public database of grants awarded. Where else would you be getting data on government grants from?!
Gladly.
Regional Airline Network Support Program ........ $80,820,000.00
Regional Airline Funding Assistance Program .... $53,862,730.00
Retaining Domestic Airline Capability Program ... $17,078,688.00
Australian Airline Financial Relief Package .......... $ 3,055,000.00
No, it does not. There are no JobKeeper monies in the figures that I have quoted.
No, it is not. As detailed above, the next largest contributor to the value of grants awarded to Rex was the gift of nearly $54 million from the Regional Airline Funding Assistance Program. That program was designed to provide a 'last resort' financial support option to regional airlines with the provision that all other strategies to manage an airline’s finances had been undertaken.
The rest came from the Retaining Domestic Airline Capability Program ($17 million) and the Australian Airline Financial Relief Package ($3 million). No JobKeeper monies are included in the $154,816,418.00 I quoted.
No, it is not. As I stated above, and as anyone exercising due diligence would determine, JobKeeper is not included in the grants and subsidies data I quoted above.
It's not unknown. It's how anyone purporting to write cogently and coherently on the topic of grants and subsidies would go about data collection. You go to the relevant government databases, run the appropriate query, download the results.
Gladly.
Regional Airline Network Support Program ........ $80,820,000.00
Regional Airline Funding Assistance Program .... $53,862,730.00
Retaining Domestic Airline Capability Program ... $17,078,688.00
Australian Airline Financial Relief Package .......... $ 3,055,000.00
No, it does not. There are no JobKeeper monies in the figures that I have quoted.
The rest came from the Retaining Domestic Airline Capability Program ($17 million) and the Australian Airline Financial Relief Package ($3 million). No JobKeeper monies are included in the $154,816,418.00 I quoted.
No, it is not. As I stated above, and as anyone exercising due diligence would determine, JobKeeper is not included in the grants and subsidies data I quoted above.
It's not unknown. It's how anyone purporting to write cogently and coherently on the topic of grants and subsidies would go about data collection. You go to the relevant government databases, run the appropriate query, download the results.
You better tell rex and KPMG that their financial reports are in error then as the amounts you are listing are not included at all, as with your figures being out for QF.
Completely flawed reasoning, this is a political method to make one look better or worse than the other. The correct comparison would be between QLink, particularly Easterns/Sunstate payments vs Rex. Any other comparison does not take into account similar operating environment and why the subsidies exist, ie to service regional communities. You might as well compare TOLL to Transdev Sydney Ferries, they both transport stuff right?
RDAC is new havn't accounted for that yet, however I'd say that one will be spread around all airlines as the total amount available is $198mil, Barnaby already stated that QF and VA get $130 odd million of that, vs $17mil for Rex, which also includes the payments to employees for covid relief.
The breakdowns of received grants and subsidies are on page 54 of the Annual report, which includes JobKeeper. Now those figures have moved on by another $35million since, especially with RDAC.
You are kidding right? 4% of billions vs 3% of a few hundred million??? This is where your relative analysis falls apart completely. That 4% of QF revenue is more than Rex's total Revenue, some $700million. Are you including the FF program in that as well, because that not airline related its an advertising/marketing mechanism. QF loyalty revenue in 2019 was $1.7bil, thats 10% of operational revenue, on 23% margins for that matter. These are the figures you have to remove from the numbers when comparing the two 'airlines'. As subsidising the FF program would be just stupid.
BTW Fly corporate received $7.3 million in RAFA grant, are we going to argue that they generate 14% of Rex revenue with 3-5 SAABs, which was the case at the time of issue, so relative to QF revenue they must have been paid 10 fold and are now going ballistic with the VA routes....
PS, Did someone try to run a QF A330 APU on coal recently, looked like a steam pipe blowing off...and a few fire trucks arriving to take a look.
And why wouldn't you when you are trying to draw a reasonable comparison between the funding to the three airlines of varying sizes and complexities. The government grants and subsidies were, by and large, mechanisms to plug the airline revenues lost or foregone due to the pandemic and government restrictions. Using revenue is the most logical mechanism for pro-rating the value of the grants and subsidies such that you have a comparable base.
RDAC is new havn't accounted for that yet, however I'd say that one will be spread around all airlines as the total amount available is $198mil, Barnaby already stated that QF and VA get $130 odd million of that, vs $17mil for Rex, which also includes the payments to employees for covid relief.
The breakdowns of received grants and subsidies are on page 54 of the Annual report, which includes JobKeeper. Now those figures have moved on by another $35million since, especially with RDAC.
QF revenue attributable to non-aviation activities runs to about 7 percent; it's about 3 percent for Rex. They're not miles apart.
BTW Fly corporate received $7.3 million in RAFA grant, are we going to argue that they generate 14% of Rex revenue with 3-5 SAABs, which was the case at the time of issue, so relative to QF revenue they must have been paid 10 fold and are now going ballistic with the VA routes....
PS, Did someone try to run a QF A330 APU on coal recently, looked like a steam pipe blowing off...and a few fire trucks arriving to take a look.
Last edited by 43Inches; 29th Apr 2022 at 23:25.
Hey,
Just a question in regards to anyone that has recently applied for a direct entry command on the SAAB?. I have lots of previous command experience on type with training captain experience also, including 737 time.
Wondering if anyone has been contacted for a DEC ? I keep updating yet I receive zero response.
Cheers Everyone.
Just a question in regards to anyone that has recently applied for a direct entry command on the SAAB?. I have lots of previous command experience on type with training captain experience also, including 737 time.
Wondering if anyone has been contacted for a DEC ? I keep updating yet I receive zero response.
Cheers Everyone.
Like it says on the cover (and repeatedly elsewhere throughout), Rex's annual report is for the 12 month period to 30 June last year. 10 months have elapsed since then. The figures I quoted are more recent and cover a longer period of time.
It's hardly new! It was announced at the end of September last year and funding concluded four months ago.
BTW Fly corporate received $7.3 million in RAFA grant, are we going to argue that they generate 14% of Rex revenue with 3-5 SAABs, which was the case at the time of issue, so relative to QF revenue they must have been paid 10 fold and are now going ballistic with the VA routes....
Taxpayers should be not funding the 737 operation one bit. It is a operation that should never have been started. The traffic does not exist for what they are trying to do. The proof is in the numbers. I mean look at this morning. 3%, 5%, 4%. Oh one cracked 10%. Great work...managed a few at 30%. Sure a few others got 80%, however it is very few are far.
MEL-OOL/BNE with 5 bodies. And that’s the only flight for the day? I mean this is OzJet territory.
MEL-OOL/BNE with 5 bodies. And that’s the only flight for the day? I mean this is OzJet territory.
Hey,
Just a question in regards to anyone that has recently applied for a direct entry command on the SAAB?. I have lots of previous command experience on type with training captain experience also, including 737 time.
Wondering if anyone has been contacted for a DEC ? I keep updating yet I receive zero response.
Cheers Everyone.
Just a question in regards to anyone that has recently applied for a direct entry command on the SAAB?. I have lots of previous command experience on type with training captain experience also, including 737 time.
Wondering if anyone has been contacted for a DEC ? I keep updating yet I receive zero response.
Cheers Everyone.
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Delta Deal: Rex Signs Up A New US Airline Partner
“By the end of the year Delta will be bringing up to 500 passengers a day into Sydney, a fifth of those might take a Rex flight.”
”We’ve been through what I would say is the worst,” Sharp said. Passenger volumes on the 737 flights are now “very strong,” he said, declining to give specific numbers.”
“The airline plans to expand its fleet of six 737s to as many as 30 by adding a plane every two to three months. Sharp said two more jets will arrive “fairly shortly,” and a full network connecting Australia’s major state capitals might be completed in 2023.”
Not exactly brimming with confidence?
”We’ve been through what I would say is the worst,” Sharp said. Passenger volumes on the 737 flights are now “very strong,” he said, declining to give specific numbers.”
“The airline plans to expand its fleet of six 737s to as many as 30 by adding a plane every two to three months. Sharp said two more jets will arrive “fairly shortly,” and a full network connecting Australia’s major state capitals might be completed in 2023.”
Not exactly brimming with confidence?
All flights this morning so far 20 bodies
OOL single digits
Last Saturday they broke the record for the highest amount of single digit pax flights in a day.
Surely this is burning at least $1-$2m a week.
Last week flew Sydney -Melbourne 1730 departure with Virgin, with a few spare seats.
With the Rex jet departure at 1700 I counted less than 15 get on board, including the obligatory last minute passenger that couldn’t find is boarding pass.
With the Rex jet departure at 1700 I counted less than 15 get on board, including the obligatory last minute passenger that couldn’t find is boarding pass.
All flights this morning so far 20 bodies
OOL single digits
Last Saturday they broke the record for the highest amount of single digit pax flights in a day.
OOL single digits
Last Saturday they broke the record for the highest amount of single digit pax flights in a day.
Has anyone flown on Rex or been at a boarding gate and seen passengers coming on or off to confirm this?
If they really are flying around empty they must be haemorrhaging cash and the company would be in crisis!
Given back in June 2021 they aimed to have 8 737s in service by September 2021, I believe they got to 6 have sent one back so only 5 now. Also they were going to set up a frequent flyer program late 2021 to early 2022. As none of this has happened it could suggest they’re not doing so well. I have seen one disembark in OOL this week and I didn’t count above double digits.
Bull the data is accurate. Not as accurate for Virgin and other foreign players due some data clashes around redemptions, however Rex is bang on.
Don’t get me wrong, some days they are full, Sunday’s and Friday’s are generally busy as they should be. They seem to have had some success with Canberra and Adelaide, the other 5 days are a disaster, you may note on some days they have no flights after 3pm.
They need to lower fares and dump the free checked bags and drinks. They have a low cost base to take advantage off, otherwise they will continue to be slaughtered by Jetstar. I wouldn’t even rate Virgin as a Rex competitor, complete different league, even though they think they are ‘taking it to Virgin’.
Don’t get me wrong, some days they are full, Sunday’s and Friday’s are generally busy as they should be. They seem to have had some success with Canberra and Adelaide, the other 5 days are a disaster, you may note on some days they have no flights after 3pm.
They need to lower fares and dump the free checked bags and drinks. They have a low cost base to take advantage off, otherwise they will continue to be slaughtered by Jetstar. I wouldn’t even rate Virgin as a Rex competitor, complete different league, even though they think they are ‘taking it to Virgin’.
I am genuinely surprised at how they are sustaining the loads that they are. Their aircraft are always parked in either SY or ML - and the Rex checkin at Melbourne is constantly deserted. Something has to give?