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QF Group possible Redundancy Numbers/Packages

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QF Group possible Redundancy Numbers/Packages

Old 13th Oct 2020, 07:34
  #1961 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
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Rubbish. Qantas said they will run a RIN on the 747.
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Old 13th Oct 2020, 07:47
  #1962 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by knobbycobby View Post
Rubbish. Qantas said they will run a RIN on the 747.
That will be a “paper RIN”, displacement onto other fleets on paper, but the training onto those fleets as a result of that RIN will be well into the future, only when most of them are regularly flying again.
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Old 13th Oct 2020, 08:46
  #1963 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ROH111 View Post
There will be no RIN, not for a very long time.

Sorry, I missed a few words out there.

“COVID.... finances.... haven’t recovered adequately yet” all lines the execs will use to argue that a RIN will send the company broke.

Its not happening. Not for a very, very long time.

They will not run the line that" it will send them broke".
It's to risky for the share price and the millions of dollars Senior management have tied up in share options and bonuses just to avoid retraining a few pilots.

After VRs, the guys will be Rin'd on paper. Training however is in the lap of the gods. Things should become clearer at the end of march when Jopkeeper expires.
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Old 13th Oct 2020, 09:41
  #1964 (permalink)  
 
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Jobkeeper has nothing to do with it. Stand downs were made before jobkeeper was even a thing
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Old 13th Oct 2020, 10:03
  #1965 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by A320 Flyer View Post
Jobkeeper has nothing to do with it. Stand downs were made before jobkeeper was even a thing
You need to do a little more research than just making uninformed posts as above.

https://coronavirus.fairwork.gov.au/...own-directions

Jobkeeper is so much more than a few bucks in an employees pocket. The cash is the distraction. It's the legislation above and beyond an EA that allows the flexibility to apply Stand down as we are currently seeing.
As I said once Jobkeeper expires the legislation then will default to the EA and things should become clearer, or at least the company has to play its hand.

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Old 13th Oct 2020, 11:15
  #1966 (permalink)  
Keg

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Really? The LHEAs and SHEAs permit the respective stand downs. That would be the case whether jobkeeper existed or not. The stand downs were likely to be enacted whether the government placed restrictions on travel or not. Once jobkeeper expires you are correct about it defaulting to the respective EAs as it would have been had jobkeeper not existed to start off with.

Of course the feds may decide to continue to hand out jobkeeper to Qantas if they keep heavy restrictions on international travel. What if they decide to do that for another 2-3 years? By pilots arguing that the stand downs are linked to jobkeeper the government can essentially throw crew a bone and there is nothing we can do about it because we were the ones that argued it was linked to ‘the legislation’.

I can understand the desire to fight the stand down on the basis of it being linked to jobkeeper but I hope we don’t do so out of the desire to ‘do something’ and instead consider the ramifications very carefully.

Whilst ever a pandemic remains declared in various places around the world it’s likely that the law will continue to see some stand downs as reasonable for LH crew. Better a negotiated outcome than a legal precedent. Just need to see how some pilots were faring with sick leave before the TWU lost their court case compared with after.

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Old 13th Oct 2020, 16:58
  #1967 (permalink)  
 
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$50 a fortnight is still Jobkeeper... amiright?

RIN averted.
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Old 13th Oct 2020, 20:04
  #1968 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by OnceBitten View Post
You need to do a little more research than just making uninformed posts as above.

https://coronavirus.fairwork.gov.au/...own-directions

Jobkeeper is so much more than a few bucks in an employees pocket. The cash is the distraction. It's the legislation above and beyond an EA that allows the flexibility to apply Stand down as we are currently seeing.
As I said once Jobkeeper expires the legislation then will default to the EA and things should become clearer, or at least the company has to play its hand.
Nope, you are not stood down under the JobKeeper extensions to the FWA.

You are stood down under the stand-down provisions in your EBA.

Read your stand down letter.
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Old 13th Oct 2020, 22:50
  #1969 (permalink)  
 
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Imagine for a moment the Federal Government had not introduced Jobkeeper or any other assistance payment directly linked to stood-down employees; for example an extension of the 'dole' for those not receiving any form of salary or wages.
Stand-downs would still have occurred as specified in various industrial awards and agreements. It's for that same reason that Qantas and probably many other employers, can continue to stand-down staff according to the relative agreement, award or the FW act once Jobkeeper ceases.

As for a trigger to cease stand-downs within Qantas and in particular for it's Longhaul Pilots, that will almost certainly be for a court to decide as I'd be fairly certain that Qantas will wish to extend it as long as possible and the Pilot group will be looking for an expedited return to minimum pay even (if it's at a reduced MGH).
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Old 13th Oct 2020, 23:15
  #1970 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by C441 View Post
Imagine for a moment the Federal Government had not introduced Jobkeeper or any other assistance payment directly linked to stood-down employees; for example an extension of the 'dole' for those not receiving any form of salary or wages.
Stand-downs would still have occurred as specified in various industrial awards and agreements. It's for that same reason that Qantas and probably many other employers, can continue to stand-down staff according to the relative agreement, award or the FW act once Jobkeeper ceases.

As for a trigger to cease stand-downs within Qantas and in particular for it's Longhaul Pilots, that will almost certainly be for a court to decide as I'd be fairly certain that Qantas will wish to extend it as long as possible and the Pilot group will be looking for an expedited return to minimum pay even (if it's at a reduced MGH).
I’d agree that March will be the crux point. Ceasing jobkeeper would coincide with border relaxation. Perhaps earlier. However at that point the Feds will say to QF “OK, you are on your own”. That’s when the matter will go to court. QF will try it out. As the consensus here indicates, it’s one for a judge.
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Old 13th Oct 2020, 23:16
  #1971 (permalink)  
 
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Let’s look into the future. At some point SYD-LAX will reopen, likely with reduced demand. QF will most likely use 787s on that route rather than the A380.

Is this an economic decision, or a pandemic decision?

If the company elects to use a smaller aircraft to save money, can they keep the A380 crew stood down unpaid?

What was that ancient Chinese curse about “interesting times”?
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Old 13th Oct 2020, 23:20
  #1972 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Derfred View Post
Nope, you are not stood down under the JobKeeper extensions to the FWA.

You are stood down under the stand-down provisions in your EBA.

Read your stand down letter.
I agree, we are stood down under the EA's however the way stand down is being used to stand some up and keep others stood down is a function of the Jobkeeper amendment. They are not mutually exclusive of each other.

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Old 13th Oct 2020, 23:30
  #1973 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ruprecht View Post

Is this an economic decision, or a pandemic decision?

If the company elects to use a smaller aircraft to save money, can they keep the A380 crew stood down unpaid?

NJS crew may be about to have a similar argument. PER and CNS crew are being relocated and potentially stood down in new bases - replaced by larger aircraft as an economic decision.
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Old 13th Oct 2020, 23:33
  #1974 (permalink)  
 
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Why do people think a precedent hasn't already been set by the domestic situation? Border openings will have no direct bearing on stand down provisions, or if AIPA's legal opinion is different, I expect a SH challenge to be made there first.

Whilst demand is down, the stand down 'privilege' will remain. Additionally, I don't see an AIPA challenge and nor is it necessarily in the pilot's interest as a negotiated outcome is probably better for all.
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Old 13th Oct 2020, 23:42
  #1975 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by crosscutter View Post
Why do people think a precedent hasn't already been set by the domestic situation? Border openings will have no direct bearing on stand down provisions, or if AIPA's legal opinion is different, I expect a SH challenge to be made there first.

Whilst demand is down, the stand down 'privilege' will remain. Additionally, I don't see an AIPA challenge and nor is it necessarily in the pilot's interest as a negotiated outcome is probably better for all.
I think that is the company’s motivation with EA variations!

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Old 15th Oct 2020, 04:14
  #1976 (permalink)  
 
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For those that missed the news today.

787’s to be deployed on London - Darwin / Delhi - Darwin.

8 flights have been approved initially with more to follow.

Hope those ASIC’s have been stored correctly and readily accessible.

Next question - Do you come off LWOP for those that are to grab a piece of the pie. CR protection gone...

😊
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Old 15th Oct 2020, 04:51
  #1977 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
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Originally Posted by Fujiroll76 View Post
For those that missed the news today.

787’s to be deployed on London - Darwin / Delhi - Darwin.

8 flights have been approved initially with more to follow.

Hope those ASIC’s have been stored correctly and readily accessible.

Next question - Do you come off LWOP for those that are to grab a piece of the pie. CR protection gone...

😊
Why bother coming off LWOP, it will only go to the Office Lurkers anyway...
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Old 15th Oct 2020, 04:56
  #1978 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
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They doing CR are they? Thought they be needing everyone now there is only one full service carrier.
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Old 15th Oct 2020, 04:59
  #1979 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
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Originally Posted by Street garbage View Post
Why bother coming off LWOP, it will only go to the Office Lurkers anyway...
I mean it makes sense with them being all current..

Hang on..wasn’t there a seniority system in place to allocate ANY flying 🤔

A repatriation flight inbound from Delhi won’t have near the same media audience as a flight to “nowhere” .......

we might get a look in 🤞🏻
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Old 15th Oct 2020, 05:06
  #1980 (permalink)  
 
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It’s a good start, even though it’s only a total of 16 sectors in one month for a fleet of several hundred pilots most of whom haven’t operated for 6 months. It’ll be limited by the NT quarantine facility they will be housed in.

Hopefully there will be more opportunities on a regular basis.

Originally Posted by Fujiroll76 View Post
.

Next question - Do you come off LWOP for those that are to grab a piece of the pie.
I believe it was mostly SOs who took LWOP. There’ll still be Trainers stood up, I assume to prep for the scenic flights and Antarctic charters.
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