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QF Group possible Redundancy Numbers/Packages

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QF Group possible Redundancy Numbers/Packages

Old 31st Jul 2020, 23:41
  #1141 (permalink)  
Keg

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An MGH below 80 doesn’t allow additional chances for flying. It’s only once MGH is between 80 and 160 that it allows additional crew to fly.

The real question is whether the pilot group is prepared to vote for a lower MGH AND to allow training onto a type so that more pilots can get flying.

Again, a lower MGH that devalues future leave accrual would need to be part of a package that includes such considerations.
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Old 1st Aug 2020, 03:43
  #1142 (permalink)  
 
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I’m happy to accrue leave at a reduced rate as long as there is a provision on the agreement that when Qantas returns $1 in profit and all current pilots on fleet type are stood up, I then start to accrue my leave at 1.5 times the usual rate until the leave balance returns to what it would have been had I been accruing it normally. Any changes to EBA need to have firm conditions attached. After all we have been stood down now, previously locked out, taken pay freezes, negotiated away conditions on promises that never materialised fully whilst watching executive waste money on fantasy adventure like Jetstar Hong Kong and Red Q, invest in other airlines and take home huge bonuses.
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Old 1st Aug 2020, 06:13
  #1143 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by engine out View Post
I’m happy to accrue leave at a reduced rate as long as there is a provision on the agreement that when Qantas returns $1 in profit and all current pilots on fleet type are stood up, I then start to accrue my leave at 1.5 times the usual rate until the leave balance returns to what it would have been had I been accruing it normally. Any changes to EBA need to have firm conditions attached. After all we have been stood down now, previously locked out, taken pay freezes, negotiated away conditions on promises that never materialised fully whilst watching executive waste money on fantasy adventure like Jetstar Hong Kong and Red Q, invest in other airlines and take home huge bonuses.

Great post hope the majority agree with u, I certainly do
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Old 1st Aug 2020, 09:19
  #1144 (permalink)  
 
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You could look at it like this, my last pay from the Qantas group was 28th March, so if I go back flying in September which is looking hopeful that will be 6 months of $0 pay. So I have already taken a 50% pay cut this year, seems like that is more than enough to me. My mate down the road who works for Air NZ hasn't flown since 1st April and has been paid 86% of his wage every month on time with no expectation of work. I find it incredible that Qantas now wants to screw thinks down even tighter.
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Old 1st Aug 2020, 09:27
  #1145 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Ollie Onion View Post
You could look at it like this, my last pay from the Qantas group was 28th March, so if I go back flying in September which is looking hopeful that will be 6 months of $0 pay. So I have already taken a 50% pay cut this year, seems like that is more than enough to me. My mate down the road who works for Air NZ hasn't flown since 1st April and has been paid 86% of his wage every month on time with no expectation of work. I find it incredible that Qantas now wants to screw thinks down even tighter.
absolutely

on a fortnightly basis your/my pay is more like a 90% cut though

more than enough

Last edited by maggot; 1st Aug 2020 at 12:52.
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Old 1st Aug 2020, 09:56
  #1146 (permalink)  
 
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Air New Zealand is a state owned enterprise that has already been bailed out from bankruptcy once this century by NZ government

If it didn't get a $1000 million or so in 2001 - it wouldn't exist

So not a valid comparison , they did make at least 30% of their pilots compulsory redundant

Difficult to think of any pilots who have lucked out like the top 70 % of Air NZ have , perhaps the workers paradises of Air France & maybe KLM

For everyone else it has been stand downs , furloughs , pay cuts , redundancies both voluntary & compulsory

Some of the post above are incredible in terms of their disconnect from reality , concerns about a quid pro quo if MGH reduced , accrual of annual leave at a lower rate
All so unfair , sounds like the bleating in the loss of night credits in negotiations with Project Sayonara , yes we may as well call it Project Sayonara - it will never happen now

You need to get with the program , you have zero international business and probably running at 1 or 2% domestic traffic , very large redundancies are coming to QF mainline , JQ Australia , Qlink & you would be talking 30 to 40% going, just like everyone else. Australian Fed Govt will be extremely cautious about re-opening international & for travel purposes the continent of Australia is effectively 8 different countries now with travel embargoes on each other

Ollie what routes do you think , that you will be flying in September ? What restrictions do you think the various State & Territory Govts will have in September & why do you think people in Australia would actually get on a domestic aircraft in September ?

So if you have an opportunity to take lwop and protect your position , retrain , re-qualify, move back to a previous profession/vocation, or military do so.
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Old 1st Aug 2020, 12:21
  #1147 (permalink)  
 
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I have been told I am flying again domestically from September, and yes I am one of the lucky ones so far. I have friends at Ryanair, Easyjet, BA, Air NZ and of course Emirates who all are still getting some form of pay. Air NZ has not used any government money .... yet. Pilots have been made redundant within the Jetstar Group already. It amazes me how willing people are to accept the bulls$&t that gets peddled. Yes it is a disaster for the airlines but to try and cut the leave accrual rates for crew who are already on 0 pay is just callous, yet there are volunteers.
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Old 1st Aug 2020, 21:56
  #1148 (permalink)  
 
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What pilots have already been made redundant in Jetstar?
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Old 1st Aug 2020, 23:36
  #1149 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Telfer86 View Post
You need to get with the program , you have zero international business and probably running at 1 or 2% domestic traffic , very large redundancies are coming to QF mainline , JQ Australia , Qlink & you would be talking 30 to 40%
Why would they bother? Stand Down is way cheaper than CR. Cutting loose the bottom 30-40% would be beyond the airlines capacity to fund the CR. Not to mention, at some point in the future, they have to put all those remaining crew through new type courses. May happen though- who knows? None of us do.

Let’s just hope things are not as bleak as you make out!
Slowly, slowly Things will return that much is certain.
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Old 2nd Aug 2020, 00:18
  #1150 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Ollie Onion View Post
You could look at it like this, my last pay from the Qantas group was 28th March, so if I go back flying in September which is looking hopeful that will be 6 months of $0 pay. So I have already taken a 50% pay cut this year, seems like that is more than enough to me. My mate down the road who works for Air NZ hasn't flown since 1st April and has been paid 86% of his wage every month on time with no expectation of work. I find it incredible that Qantas now wants to screw thinks down even tighter.
NZ company owned by the government with unlimited $, and you're comparing that to a publicly owned company who doesn't have unlimited funds?

What would you like Ollie? Everyone on 86% wage for the next 3 months before the company goes tits up?

Great idea! Ollie for CEO
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Old 2nd Aug 2020, 00:27
  #1151 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by normanton View Post
NZ company owned by the government with unlimited $, and you're comparing that to a publicly owned company who doesn't have unlimited funds?

What would you like Ollie? Everyone on 86% wage for the next 3 months before the company goes tits up?

Great idea! Ollie for CEO
its hard to get his point when youre intentionally trying to miss it
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Old 2nd Aug 2020, 00:32
  #1152 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Telfer86 View Post

You need to get with the program , you have zero international business and probably running at 1 or 2% domestic traffic , very large redundancies are coming to QF mainline , JQ Australia , Qlink & you would be talking 30 to 40% going, just like everyone else. Australian Fed Govt will be extremely cautious about re-opening international & for travel purposes the continent of Australia is effectively 8 different countries now with travel embargoes on each other

So if you have an opportunity to take lwop and protect your position , retrain , re-qualify, move back to a previous profession/vocation, or military do so.
100%. Couldn't agree more. We are currently looking at 196 redundancy's in mainline. And from what I am hearing, there hasn't been much interest in the VR package.

Wait until Allan conducts his next fleet review. My personal opinion is there will be A LOT more redundancy's happening. Want to secure your career? Take LWOP - it's that simple.

The pilots who will be caught with their pants down are those in the 1000-2000 seniority numbers. Good luck all. Tino has given you the option to take control of your future in Qantas, think wisely!
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Old 2nd Aug 2020, 00:36
  #1153 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Ollie Onion View Post
You could look at it like this, my last pay from the Qantas group was 28th March, so if I go back flying in September which is looking hopeful that will be 6 months of $0 pay. So I have already taken a 50% pay cut this year, seems like that is more than enough to me. My mate down the road who works for Air NZ hasn't flown since 1st April and has been paid 86% of his wage every month on time with no expectation of work. I find it incredible that Qantas now wants to screw thinks down even tighter.
That’s great... Except for the 250ish pilots who have lost their job at air NZ. So it’s not comparing apples with apples.

Also, the fact Air NZ is government owned has nothing to do with the fact pilots are still getting paid. Different industrial laws mean that no one can just be stood down on zero pay.
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Old 2nd Aug 2020, 00:37
  #1154 (permalink)  
 
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Correct Slezy.

If the LH EBA didn't have stand down provisions in the EBA, everyone would be on full base pay and we would have had 500 redundancy's 3 months ago.

Originally Posted by maggot View Post
its hard to get his point when youre intentionally trying to miss it
Nah I get the point. Ollie isn't happy with the company going after AL. If your not happy with it, stay stood down. But don't get caught with your pants down when the CR hammer comes a swinging. Deer in the headlights.
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Old 2nd Aug 2020, 00:47
  #1155 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by normanton View Post
The pilots who will be caught with their pants down are those in the 1000-2000 seniority numbers.
Where can I sign up ‘to be caught with my pants down’? I’d bank the CR package and wouldn’t be something I’d lose sleep over. I’d prepare accordingly but also know I’ve seen it all before. And I’ve listened to people who have seen it all before many more times than me.
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Old 2nd Aug 2020, 00:58
  #1156 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by normanton View Post
Correct Slezy.

If the LH EBA didn't have stand down provisions in the EBA, everyone would be on full base pay and we would have had 500 redundancy's 3 months ago.
AND YET THE LH, SH & EVERY OTHER EBA DOES? Those in 1000-2000 mark on ‘the list‘ would see the equivalent of 6-10yrs ‘Stood down leave accrual’ as a payout for CR. Not to mention the fact they are almost entirely on the fleets that would be ‘stood up’ first.
It’s quite the pickle for the company as well as the crew.

To add to the math, many of these crew would need about a week in the sim & on the line to fly the Maggot again. Putting further doubt to the companies claim that SH wouldn’t be touched. Much cheaper to get rid of a 1-3yr service SH FO via CR. The entire industry is in ‘Surplus’ right now.

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Old 2nd Aug 2020, 01:08
  #1157 (permalink)  
 
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You have to be realistic, redundancy will be fleet related , there is no way the company will want to have such a training burden .
Another reason they also don’t want to be left with crews that are all 50+ when they could keep many younger Pilots .
Imagine the retirements in the next 15!to 29 years .
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Old 2nd Aug 2020, 01:28
  #1158 (permalink)  
 
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Being realistic is reading the Contract. Being unrealistic is expecting some sort of company sanctioned FWC intervention that will have a material affect on the validity of all contracts in the years to come.
FWA want EBA’s to be worth the paper they are written on.
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Old 2nd Aug 2020, 01:29
  #1159 (permalink)  
 
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I’m at JQ I think CR For QF and JQ will be a last resort due to cost. Although JQ EBA is worded differently, 787 pilots or more senior pilots at other bases don’t have a EBA right to displace junior pilots in the bases that will survive this pandemic This will come at JQ discretion. Cost will be the over riding factor for both QF and JQ I’m not 100% of the cost to a business to have crews stood down but be much cheaper than a CR and then the cost of down training as required for QF then the cost of re hire those pilots when it picks up. As stated before one certainty in all of this, it will all come back the question is when.
everyone is just clutching at straws with CR it would have happend by now if it were as seen at AirNZ and other world airlines.
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Old 2nd Aug 2020, 01:40
  #1160 (permalink)  
 
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You can’t do a CR without first offering a VR.
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