You are absolutely missing my point; airlines around the world are being forced to pay staff wages as local employment law doesn't allow for stand downs on no pay. Qantas are exceptionally lucky in that they exist in a country where they can stand down people on no pay, standing down staff on no pay should also come with some responsibility to those staff. The SLWOP deal to me was acceptable in the circumstances, I just find it unbelievable that when Qantas is in the position of not having to pay wages or make people redundant they then come after the only thing that is giving people a small amount of financial relief, and that is the leave accrual. The 2 days a month are not going to be the make or break for Qantas, but it did provide a small lifeline to many of the workers, this recover will be build on the broken finances and destroyed lives of the workers, now if I had any faith that when we are through the other side we may get some of that back then all well and good but we won't. We will see massive bonuses for the management team for seeing us through the crisis and a huge gain in their wealth for all the shares they take in lieu of wages. But as I say if you are willing to offer your 2 days of leave back to the company in some misguiding understanding that we are all 'one team' helping out then that is up to you. And Ragnor, 7 FO's in NZ got their letters in the last week informing them that the Company is proceeding with their redundancies after the union offered any cost savings required to stave off redundancies. Qantas is now using this as an industrial tool to drive down conditions permanently, they will screw over the employees at the drop of a hat and are already showing that, as I have said I will be back working shortly but I am still concerned about those that aren't and just how brutal the company is being. You all say Air NZ has unlimited government funding, they don't, Qantas and Virgin are doing very nicely from the minimum government network at the moment, many airlines around the world are worse off than Qantas but are still managing to pay those who stay on a little bit of money. Yes it would suck to be one of the 250 who went at Air NZ but at least they got a lump sum and will be the first to be back employed.