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QF Group possible Redundancy Numbers/Packages

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QF Group possible Redundancy Numbers/Packages

Old 31st Oct 2020, 07:03
  #2081 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 8,497
The outbound restriction exists to justify the inbound restriction.

We do not want 20 million rich Asians suddenly deciding that Australia is the lifeboat from which to watch the disaster that is Covid in Asia.


........and they will bring Covid19 with them, as will returning Australian bogans if we were stupid enough to let them holiday in Bali.
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Old 31st Oct 2020, 08:12
  #2082 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
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Age: 47
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Originally Posted by Sunfish View Post
The outbound restriction exists to justify the inbound restriction.

We do not want 20 million rich Asians suddenly deciding that Australia is the lifeboat from which to watch the disaster that is Covid in Asia.


........and they will bring Covid19 with them, as will returning Australian bogans if we were stupid enough to let them holiday in Bali.
The disaster Covid is in Asia?

Singapore opening and less restrictions, many travel bubbles starting. It is a slow build but it is opening.

Thailand doing pretty well and accepting long term visitors. Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia all seem to be doing very well. China almost seems normal, have a look at the travel any of your friends living there are doing.

Yes there are areas in Asia that are a worry however Asia is a big place. I do get your point however Australia is not the be all and end all.

Now back to the thread!

It is a shame QF couldn’t have done more repatriation flights, as I stated on another thread if these flights are managed right then they will not be terrible loss makers. The diff is QF isn’t a gov airline so it took this long for the gov to step in. The QF repatriation flights are not even scratching the issue. The minute caps are removed all QF Int should be flying flat out, cargo outbound, full or Covid full with spacing inbound.

I certainly do care about QF, many mates affected. However when you see the different strategies different airlines take you do have to wonder. Many forget that there was hundreds of tonnes of cargo being moved during Covid and this kept many an airframe and crew flying.
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Old 31st Oct 2020, 08:44
  #2083 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Melbourne
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Originally Posted by Going Nowhere View Post
Those SA crew are treated exactly like everyone else on the EBA. They get their stand down on a rotating basis, just like everyone else on the 400. Line crew are stood down on a rotating basis according to seniority. The only exception at the moment is the C&T are avoiding stand down mostly to train the Q300 crew to the Q400.

However, as a result of their visa the SA crew can't claim JobKeeper or seek alternative employment. So they burn their leave mostly to keep some money coming in. Those leave balances arenít infinite and now no one can go into a negative leave balance.

Think about the implications of that for a minute when there is no concrete end date to stand downs.

Do you hear them complaining? Just about all of them (Thereís always someone who isnít happy, isnít there SDN?) are extremely grateful to be doing what theyíre doing.

The grounding of the classic fleet and subsequent stand down was a commercial decision. QLink donít choose which fleet flies where, commercial do. They decided the 400 was a better machine to use overall. Thats all there was to it.

Once the company came out that the 300 was done in QLD, they moved reasonably quickly to get the training organised. Given the number of crew to be trained and all of the border restrictions, I donít think theyíve done that bad a job at that part of it.

By and large, the 400 crew all feel for the classic crew who got stood down. It wasnít necessarily fair or even, but that wasnít the goal when this kicked off.

Most are hopefully thankful that their stand down wasnít potentially 3 years or more like many of their mates over at the mothership.

I totally understand, the issue Iím trying to point out is that what was industrially unpalatable for the company 12 months ago is not now.

new rules apply
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Old 31st Oct 2020, 09:48
  #2084 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
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Originally Posted by SDN Superstar View Post
I totally understand, the issue Iím trying to point out is that what was industrially unpalatable for the company 12 months ago is not now.

new rules apply
Where are these new rules written? Just so I can reference them for any future dealings.
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Old 31st Oct 2020, 10:42
  #2085 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
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Originally Posted by SDN Superstar View Post
I totally understand, the issue Iím trying to point out is that what was industrially unpalatable for the company 12 months ago is not now.

new rules apply
The way your post was written makes it sound like they are getting special treatment or should stand aside so that locals can be stood up.

Not only is that an unfair suggestion to make, it would be going against the EBA.

For the record Iím not one of them but thereís some bloody good, humble pilots there who are (again for the most part) extremely grateful for the opportunity that was offered to them.

Now isnít the time to play the man/woman because most of us here know someone who has some pretty big decisions ahead.
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Old 31st Oct 2020, 15:26
  #2086 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Brisbane
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Originally Posted by dr dre View Post
You can’t displace into SH during a RIN. There needs to be slots advertised to bid for.

There are no new 737 orders on the books. Apart from a handful of over 65s the vast majority of 737 pilots are well away from retirement age. There’s going to be no long haul positions to bid for for a long time. So roughly the same amount of 737 pilots will be needed in the mid term future as are needed today, and no big numbers are going to be leaving. So no large number of slots means almost no significant opportunity for LH pilots to go to SH.



Not now. There’s always a cost with training and administration to have extra pilots on the 737, away from their optimal 68ish hr divisor. Management have indicated they want no unnecessary spend so there’s no financial incentive to retrain more to SH to keep divisors low. There’s training triggers that have to be met too.
You're not factoring in that the 747 RIN has to happen sooner or later, and I would be willing to lay a bet that there will be manufactured slots on the 737 magically appearing at the same time. You mention training costs - training costs will be incurred regardless.

That might just happen to be the same time that all current 737 pilots are back flying. It won't matter whether the divisor is 73/month as per the IA, the Company only needs to "forecast" such a divisor to meet the requirements of the IA. According to them. That's what they did during the GFC and they got away with it.
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Old 31st Oct 2020, 20:10
  #2087 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Australia
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QF have said multiple times that there wonít be any vacancies on the 737. The RIN will only involve the 787/330.

if there were vacancies, they wound be filled by the oldest, most senior 380 crew....which wouldnít help the RIN at all.
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Old 31st Oct 2020, 22:06
  #2088 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by goodonyamate View Post
QF have said multiple times that there wonít be any vacancies on the 737. The RIN will only involve the 787/330.

if there were vacancies, they wound be filled by the oldest, most senior 380 crew....which wouldnít help the RIN at all.
I'm not sure...there are approximately 30 A pilots that the integration agreement covers who would get first shot. Perhaps none of them would take a slot, but all are at the head of the queue. An unforeseen consequence of a long-ago deal.
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Old 31st Oct 2020, 22:33
  #2089 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by goodonyamate View Post
If there were vacancies, they wound be filled by the oldest, most senior 380 crew....which wouldnít help the RIN at all.
There would, of course, have to be a RIN announced for the A380 first.

Last edited by ruprecht; 31st Oct 2020 at 23:24.
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Old 31st Oct 2020, 22:36
  #2090 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
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Originally Posted by Australopithecus View Post
I'm not sure...there are approximately 30 A pilots that the integration agreement covers who would get first shot. Perhaps none of them would take a slot, but all are at the head of the queue. An unforeseen consequence of a long-ago deal.
Need to understand the difference between a RIN and redundancy.
And how bidding for a redeployment slot is different from electing to displace when named in a RIN.
if it a 747 pilot is named in a RIN they can elect to displace A330, 787, 380. If it’s a redeployment slot then it’s different as anyone can bid for slot with seniority. Won’t be any 737 vacancies created whilst pilots are still below MGH. If moronic state premiers lift borders and SH Ramps up maybe vacancies next year but highly unlikely.
anyone know how many 747 pilots are actually left? I heard that just about all the 747 CPT had taken VR or ER. Single digits remaining.
not sure about FO or SO numbers.


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Old 31st Oct 2020, 23:31
  #2091 (permalink)  
 
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So itís apparent the company are short of crew for the upcoming bid periods on the 330 due to mass on LWOP.

I had to laugh when that email came out.



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Old 1st Nov 2020, 00:38
  #2092 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Originally Posted by Fujiroll76 View Post
So itís apparent the company are short of crew for the upcoming bid periods on the 330 due to mass on LWOP.

I had to laugh when that email came out.
s/o rank i presume?
Some of those left are in permanent iso too.
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Old 1st Nov 2020, 00:52
  #2093 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
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Originally Posted by maggot View Post
s/o rank i presume?
Some of those left are in permanent iso too.
Well heavy crewing those flights with 2 Capts or 2 FOs will certainly negate the cost savings of SOs not accruing leave. Brilliant!
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Old 1st Nov 2020, 00:53
  #2094 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Land of Oz
Posts: 186
The RIN will be on paper only.

It wonít transpire for yeeeeears!

I heard the Sydney office chick had to make 90 phone calls in order to get 9 pilots stood up. Most have employment outside of QF and are not willing to return unless itís full time work.
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Old 1st Nov 2020, 01:57
  #2095 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
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I thought you couldnít actually say no to being stood up again? Unless your on LWOP donít they just have to give you 2 weeks notice to be back at work. I was under the impression they were just being polite by ďaskingĒ if you want to be stood up
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Old 1st Nov 2020, 02:28
  #2096 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 82
Yep, thereís now discussion about enforcing longest since amongst those remaining stood down.
A large proportion of SOs that elected to stay stood down have yet to operate. So those working are burning out.
Given that some arenít able to work under the current requirements, thereís discussion about new application for LWOP and essentially a Ďprisoner swapí to bring back those who do want to work but took LWOP due to threat of CR only.
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Old 1st Nov 2020, 08:18
  #2097 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: The wrong time zone...
Posts: 716
My thoughts are with my aviator brethren who find themselves unemployed, stood down, redundant, on LWOP or whatever other form their employment has taken at the hands of COVID.
I see our friend Discrepancy is a victim also - and whilst I wish him no ill-will, I couldn't help but chuckle at his un-surprising narcissism where he casts comparisons of himself with Neil Armstrong...

"I'll look up to A380s overhead with memories similar to those of Neil Armstrong, when he looked to the sky and saw his footprint on the moon."
https://www.traveller.com.au/qf32-qa...covid19-h1rswc


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Old 1st Nov 2020, 08:29
  #2098 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: I prefer to remain north of a direct line BNE-ADL
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Posts: 1,152
Discrepancy is Gonski, it’s just his media affiliations that has got him a no news article. Good luck to him! He’s almost 64 come on who cares?
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Old 1st Nov 2020, 08:34
  #2099 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Alaska
Posts: 177
Great time for Qantas Group seniority, cancel the MOU and let the senior QF pilots take the Jetstar positions !
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Old 1st Nov 2020, 11:03
  #2100 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
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Originally Posted by Rabbitwear View Post
Great time for Qantas Group seniority, cancel the MOU and let the senior QF pilots take the Jetstar positions !
ĎCause noone wants to go to the inferior contract and fly the maggot, but theyíll be happy to leap across and show Jetstar how to fly the scarebus.

Iím sure the Jetstar guys will be wetting their pants with excitement.

Nice one.
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