Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

All borders to reopen.

Old 2nd Sep 2021, 19:29
  #8041 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: BBN
Posts: 984
Received 94 Likes on 45 Posts
Originally Posted by StallsDeep
Gladys sounds like she’s accepting an Oscar every time she holds a press conference. If she thanks enough people it just might seem like she’s doing a good job. Noticed she’s been saying “died with covid” lately
Thisjusbthe way it should have always been reported. Someone dying Tuesday afternoon then announcing the cause at 11am Wednesday morning. A lot of deaths that shouldn’t had been have been “caused” by covid.
SHVC is offline  
Old 2nd Sep 2021, 20:37
  #8042 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: SCAL
Posts: 116
Received 9 Likes on 4 Posts
Life in the penal colonies

sherburn2LA is offline  
Old 2nd Sep 2021, 22:11
  #8043 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: aus
Posts: 1,304
Likes: 0
Received 104 Likes on 66 Posts
Originally Posted by Xeptu
Yeah that's the wheat belt. We don't use imported labour, it's Farmers working with Farmers. $8B over 6 weeks. What you're talking about are the fruit growers, they have always used imported workers, Australians (city people) won't do it, too busy going to the beach. Market Gardens are closer to the cities and operate all year round, that's your tomatoes, potatoes, anything that's pulled out of the ground.
Farmers got used to scamming backpackers for WHV extensions now suddenly its wont someone think of the farmers.


rattman is online now  
Old 2nd Sep 2021, 23:18
  #8044 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Aus
Posts: 2,786
Received 415 Likes on 229 Posts
Farmers got used to scamming backpackers for WHV extensions now suddenly its wont someone think of the farmers.
Not all farmers, just some, like other parts of the community there are some that take advantage of everything cheap thinking it's best. I know a few other fruit growers that pay top dollar during picking season to ensure fruit is harvested quickly and in good condition, and they employ repeat pickers that come every season as they are reliable, some from the city. It's not easy work, but rewarding financially for those that do the job well and work for the right employer. The other option is to not care about quality and just employ cheap as possible, which is usually a sign of poor business acumen.

Harvest is no different, you want the right people operating millions of dollars of machinery in combination with millions of dollars of crops. Harvest at the wrong time, wrong moisture etc etc etc, you could lose tons of yield. Hit rocks, posts etc in afield with a combine, not only the damage bill, but the loss of work/harvest while the vehicle is repaired.
43Inches is offline  
Old 2nd Sep 2021, 23:39
  #8045 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 1998
Location: The Swan Downunder
Posts: 1,118
Received 68 Likes on 41 Posts
Originally Posted by KRviator
No, it does not. His CHO testified under oath that the WA health system is capable of handling 5,000 Covid cases, with, IIRC, 500 per day increase - and that was a year ago!
It should be noted that this was before or around the time our ICU techs were in VIC roughly 60% of them between WA and SA. These will not be infected a second time and that hasn't got anything to do with the health system or government in either state. Both states are aware they do know that.
Xeptu is offline  
Old 2nd Sep 2021, 23:51
  #8046 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 1998
Location: The Swan Downunder
Posts: 1,118
Received 68 Likes on 41 Posts
Originally Posted by 43Inches
Harvest is no different, you want the right people operating millions of dollars of machinery in combination with millions of dollars of crops. Harvest at the wrong time, wrong moisture etc etc etc, you could lose tons of yield. Hit rocks, posts etc in afield with a combine, not only the damage bill, but the loss of work/harvest while the vehicle is repaired.
The Wheat Belt, Wheat, Sheep, Wool, Feed Stock (hay) we would never use backpackers, the farmer (owner) is always the header operator and the neighbouring farmers operate the chase vehicles and silo runs. It's flat out almost non stop busiest time of the year.

I have a satellite photo somewhere of the wheat belt in harvest at night somewhere, it looks like the busiest place on earth

Last edited by Xeptu; 3rd Sep 2021 at 00:03.
Xeptu is offline  
Old 3rd Sep 2021, 00:05
  #8047 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Sydney
Posts: 467
Likes: 0
Received 7 Likes on 4 Posts
Originally Posted by SHVC
Thisjusbthe way it should have always been reported. Someone dying Tuesday afternoon then announcing the cause at 11am Wednesday morning. A lot of deaths that shouldn’t had been have been “caused” by covid.
The chief health officer was asked about this around a week ago. She answered that in many cases it was impossible to tell whether WuHu flu killed them or other conditions. So they die WITH WuHu flu not because of it. So the daily death list, which is getting really boring and should be dropped is people who die WITH WuHu flu not necessarily FROM it.

Although that doesn’t get mentioned as it is bad politics when the idea is to scare people into getting vaccinated.

and before people jump in, I am all for vaccinations and have had both mine. But that is what is playing out to get the masses done.
Foxxster is offline  
Old 3rd Sep 2021, 00:14
  #8048 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Aus
Posts: 2,786
Received 415 Likes on 229 Posts
The Wheat Belt, Wheat, Sheep, Wool, Feed Stock (hay) we would never use backpackers, the farmer (owner) is always the header operator and the neighbouring farmers operate the chase vehicles and silo runs. It's flat out almost non stop busiest time of the year.
Wool/feed can be forgiving but as you know Wheat/grain don't wait for anyone, delay the harvest, lose yield. There is still a lot of advertising (right now) for general hands to help out, marshaling etc. Imagine if your header operator gets tested positive for covid a week before harvest, not good, while it is an isolated job in itself would they even be fit to drive especially if older. I know some that would want the ventilator fitted to the cab so they could still harvest.

The chief health officer was asked about this around a week ago. She answered that in many cases it was impossible to tell whether WuHu flu killed them or other conditions.
The UK mortality stats had the the difference as "due" to covid being 75% of cases "with" covid so it's not a huge difference, just take 25% off death rates and you will be close. The "with" covid stat still has to be covid as a causal factor, not the overall cause of death, which could be multiple things, again understanding how deaths are recorded needs to be understood. If the patient died and it had nothing to do with covid at all, but they had covid in their system, covid will not be on the factors list. For instance, "patient decapitated by sword, massive trauma to neck area", even if they had severe covid, that would not be listed as a covid related death.

If the patient could have survived but covid possibly affected their recovery then it gets listed as "with" covid. IF they reattached the patients head and they were recovering, but then Covid killed them via a lung infection then it would become "due" to covid.

Last edited by 43Inches; 3rd Sep 2021 at 00:28.
43Inches is offline  
Old 3rd Sep 2021, 00:36
  #8049 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 1998
Location: The Swan Downunder
Posts: 1,118
Received 68 Likes on 41 Posts
Originally Posted by 43Inches
Wool/feed can be forgiving but as you know Wheat/grain don't wait for anyone, delay the harvest, lose yield. There is still a lot of advertising (right now) for general hands to help out, marshaling etc. Imagine if your header operator gets tested positive for covid a week before harvest, not good, while it is an isolated job in itself would they even be fit to drive especially if older. I know some that would want the ventilator fitted to the cab so they could still harvest.
There will be plenty of jobs, these are employed by Grain Corp, they operate the weight bridge, silos, this is when the virus is most likely to get in and spread. It would be catastrophic.
Xeptu is offline  
Old 3rd Sep 2021, 00:45
  #8050 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: GMT
Age: 53
Posts: 2,059
Received 179 Likes on 65 Posts
Originally Posted by 43Inches
Wool/feed can be forgiving but as you know Wheat/grain don't wait for anyone, delay the harvest, lose yield. There is still a lot of advertising (right now) for general hands to help out, marshaling etc. Imagine if your header operator gets tested positive for covid a week before harvest, not good, while it is an isolated job in itself would they even be fit to drive especially if older. I know some that would want the ventilator fitted to the cab so they could still harvest.



The UK mortality stats had the the difference as "due" to covid being 75% of cases "with" covid so it's not a huge difference, just take 25% off death rates and you will be close. The "with" covid stat still has to be covid as a causal factor, not the overall cause of death, which could be multiple things, again understanding how deaths are recorded needs to be understood. If the patient died and it had nothing to do with covid at all, but they had covid in their system, covid will not be on the factors list. For instance, "patient decapitated by sword, massive trauma to neck area", even if they had severe covid, that would not be listed as a covid related death.

If the patient could have survived but covid possibly affected their recovery then it gets listed as "with" covid. IF they reattached the patients head and they were recovering, but then Covid killed them via a lung infection then it would become "due" to covid.
Complete BS - UK fatality stats included anyone who died within 28 days of testing positive, irrespective of cause or nature of their death.
minigundiplomat is offline  
Old 3rd Sep 2021, 00:56
  #8051 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Aus
Posts: 2,786
Received 415 Likes on 229 Posts
Complete BS - UK fatality stats included anyone who died within 28 days of testing positive, irrespective of cause or nature of their death.
You do know how stupid that sounds right, and the numbers would be 10 times higher if that were the case, as with the US. The numbers would be 1000s per day right now if someone that had just tested positive with covid in the last 28 days was also listed as a covid death related. Car crashes, cancer patients, heart attack victims would all be classified with covid, just due to how many have covid in those countries, its not like Australia where we have tiny case numbers. The mortality statistics for the UK has exact process of what is included or not, hence why the 75% statement I made earlier.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...ndwales/latest

3.Deaths due to COVID-19 registered in July 2021

The doctor certifying a death can list all causes in the chain of events that led to the death, and pre-existing conditions that may have contributed to the death. Using this information, we determine an underlying cause of death. More information on this process can be found in our user guide.

Since March 2020 (when the first deaths involving coronavirus (COVID-19) were registered in England and Wales), where COVID-19 was mentioned on the death certificate it was the underlying cause of death in most cases (88.9% in England, 87.3% in Wales). In July 2021, COVID-19 was the underlying cause of death for 83.5% of deaths that mentioned COVID-19 on the death certificate in England and 80.5% in Wales. For more information on our definition of COVID-19 deaths, see Section 10: Measuring the data.
We use the term "due to COVID-19" when referring only to deaths with an underlying cause of death of COVID-19. When taking into account all of the deaths that had COVID-19 mentioned anywhere on the death certificate, whether as an underlying cause or not, we use the term "involving COVID-19".

Our definition of COVID-19 (regardless of whether it was the underlying cause or mentioned elsewhere on the death certificate) includes some cases where the certifying doctor suspected the death involved COVID-19 but was not certain (U07.2). For example, a doctor may have clinically diagnosed COVID-19 based on symptoms, but this diagnosis may not have been confirmed with a test. Of the 125,684 deaths due to COVID-19, 4,015 (3.2%) were classified as "suspected" COVID-19. Including all 141,519 deaths involving COVID-19, "suspected" COVID-19 was recorded on 3.2% (4,594 deaths) of all deaths involving COVID-19 in England and Wales. For more information on the ICD-10 definition of COVID-19, see
Section 8 of the methodology article.

Last edited by 43Inches; 3rd Sep 2021 at 01:15.
43Inches is offline  
Old 3rd Sep 2021, 01:09
  #8052 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 1998
Location: The Swan Downunder
Posts: 1,118
Received 68 Likes on 41 Posts
Originally Posted by Foxxster
The chief health officer was asked about this around a week ago. She answered that in many cases it was impossible to tell whether WuHu flu killed them or other conditions. So they die WITH WuHu flu not because of it. So the daily death list, which is getting really boring and should be dropped is people who die WITH WuHu flu not necessarily FROM it.

Although that doesn’t get mentioned as it is bad politics when the idea is to scare people into getting vaccinated.

and before people jump in, I am all for vaccinations and have had both mine. But that is what is playing out to get the masses done.
To be honest when I look at how we are travelling, I'm only interested in those that were infected, known to be suffering symptoms and died under the age of 70
Xeptu is offline  
Old 3rd Sep 2021, 03:40
  #8053 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: GMT
Age: 53
Posts: 2,059
Received 179 Likes on 65 Posts
Originally Posted by 43Inches
You do know how stupid that sounds right, and the numbers would be 10 times higher if that were the case, as with the US. The numbers would be 1000s per day right now if someone that had just tested positive with covid in the last 28 days was also listed as a covid death related. Car crashes, cancer patients, heart attack victims would all be classified with covid, just due to how many have covid in those countries, its not like Australia where we have tiny case numbers. The mortality statistics for the UK has exact process of what is included or not, hence why the 75% statement I made earlier.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...ndwales/latest




https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/mobi.../idUSKBN29J2TH



minigundiplomat is offline  
Old 3rd Sep 2021, 03:48
  #8054 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Aus
Posts: 2,786
Received 415 Likes on 229 Posts
I'll just re-post the same thing as you are quoting Reuters over the actual people who compile the data,

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...ndwales/latest

[size=13px]3.Deaths due to COVID-19 registered in July 2021[/size]


The doctor certifying a death can list all causes in the chain of events that led to the death, and pre-existing conditions that may have contributed to the death. Using this information, we determine an underlying cause of death. More information on this process can be found in our user guide.

Since March 2020 (when the first deaths involving coronavirus (COVID-19) were registered in England and Wales), where COVID-19 was mentioned on the death certificate it was the underlying cause of death in most cases (88.9% in England, 87.3% in Wales). In July 2021, COVID-19 was the underlying cause of death for 83.5% of deaths that mentioned COVID-19 on the death certificate in England and 80.5% in Wales. For more information on our definition of COVID-19 deaths, see Section 10: Measuring the data.
Quote:
We use the term "due to COVID-19" when referring only to deaths with an underlying cause of death of COVID-19. When taking into account all of the deaths that had COVID-19 mentioned anywhere on the death certificate, whether as an underlying cause or not, we use the term "involving COVID-19".

Our definition of COVID-19 (regardless of whether it was the underlying cause or mentioned elsewhere on the death certificate) includes some cases where the certifying doctor suspected the death involved COVID-19 but was not certain (U07.2). For example, a doctor may have clinically diagnosed COVID-19 based on symptoms, but this diagnosis may not have been confirmed with a test. Of the 125,684 deaths due to COVID-19, 4,015 (3.2%) were classified as "suspected" COVID-19. Including all 141,519 deaths involving COVID-19, "suspected" COVID-19 was recorded on 3.2% (4,594 deaths) of all deaths involving COVID-19 in England and Wales. For more information on the ICD-10 definition of COVID-19, see
Section 8 of the methodology article.
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-f...-idUSKBN29J2TH

Did you actually read what that article says?

It's a fact check on that headline and the outcome at the bottom says it finds the headline as false.... so I'm not sure why you posted something that says what you are asserting is false anyway.
43Inches is offline  
Old 3rd Sep 2021, 03:55
  #8055 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: GMT
Age: 53
Posts: 2,059
Received 179 Likes on 65 Posts
You can requote whatever you want if it tells the story you want, Champ. Up until the back end of 2020 the UK was classing any death within 28 days of a positive positive test as COVID. I can also link the Public Health England paper if you wish.

You only seem happy to quote anything that supports your hypothesis that the sky is falling in, Chicken Little.

Weak thinking, weak arguments and fearful rhetoric - a life filled with fear isn’t living mate. People die everyday, sad as it is.

People shouldn’t be watching their mental health and livelihoods swirl down the gurgler because you want to live forever.
minigundiplomat is offline  
Old 3rd Sep 2021, 03:59
  #8056 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Aus
Posts: 2,786
Received 415 Likes on 229 Posts
You can requote whatever you want if it tells the story you want, Champ. Up until the back end of 2020 the UK was classing any death within 28 days of a positive Covid test as positive. I can also link the Public Health England paper if you wish.

You only seem happy to quote anything that supports your hypothesis that the sky is falling in, Chicken Little.

Weak thinking, weak arguments and fearful rhetoric - a life filled with fear isn’t living mate. People die everyday, sad as it is.

People shouldn’t be watching their mental health and livelihoods swirl down the gurgler because you want to live forever.
You seem to forget you just posted a link to a story that fact checked your own line and said it was false, you obviously are not even reading your own research well enough let alone be able to judge any other opinions.

You better stop thinking before that bean of yours implodes.

The 28 and 60 day cutoffs are made to exclude outliers to get better ideas when estimating numbers.

A COVID-19 death is defined for surveillance purposes as a death resulting from a clinically compatible illness in a probable or confirmed COVID-19 case, unless there is a clear alternative cause of death that cannot be related to COVID-19 disease (e.g. trauma).
That is the definition most are working with and the cut-off (28 days) was implemented to avoid over estimations.

Last edited by 43Inches; 3rd Sep 2021 at 04:29.
43Inches is offline  
Old 3rd Sep 2021, 04:55
  #8057 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: The great country of QLD
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Try the government website
Cirressna is offline  
Old 3rd Sep 2021, 05:09
  #8058 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Mycenae
Posts: 506
Received 14 Likes on 7 Posts
It seems there a difference between how NHS England records deaths with a COVID positive result and how the ONS records them. Since the NHS figures only include deaths in hospital, they are generally lower than the ONS figures. Lots of fun reading on the PHE methodology for those with time on their hands available at https://www.gov.uk/government/public...hnical-summary
StudentInDebt is offline  
Old 3rd Sep 2021, 05:15
  #8059 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by minigundiplomat
You can requote whatever you want if it tells the story you want, Champ. Up until the back end of 2020 the UK was classing any death within 28 days of a positive positive test as COVID. I can also link the Public Health England paper if you wish.

You only seem happy to quote anything that supports your hypothesis that the sky is falling in, Chicken Little.

Weak thinking, weak arguments and fearful rhetoric - a life filled with fear isn’t living mate. People die everyday, sad as it is.

People shouldn’t be watching their mental health and livelihoods swirl down the gurgler because you want to live forever.

You are wasting yr time dealing with '43' he's a prolific rapid fire poster on a mission spending a huge chunk of his life in fear and trying to support it, makes for amusing reading if not at times boring reading though -)
machtuk is offline  
Old 3rd Sep 2021, 05:23
  #8060 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Aus
Posts: 2,786
Received 415 Likes on 229 Posts
England uses two methods of counting Covid deaths, PHE uses the 28 day list, to rapidly estimate numbers and ONS which is measured from actual data such as death certificates and such. PHE you must have tested positive to be included in the estimate regardless of certificate notice. At the early stages there was no time frame on PHE data, which recently caused it to blow out in numbers so they restricted it to 28 days and 60 days dependent on other factors. When compared to ONS data the PHE data is within 25%, as I stated earlier. So the documented death data and mortality statistics are definitely similar, anything beyond a few weeks old is going to be corrected by ONS data. The gov data has adjusted the statistics to show the 28 day data, but if you click on that the ONS data is readily available to reference.

Prior to the 28 day limit the real death rate was somewhere between ONS and PHE, after the limit the actual numbers are said to be slightly higher than both.

You are wasting yr time dealing with '43' he's a prolific rapid fire poster on a mission spending a huge chunk of his life in fear and trying to support it, makes for amusing reading if not at times boring reading though -)
Happy you bothered to mention me, and wasted some of your time, BTW I have no fear of covid, fully vaxxed and happily wandering around even in areas full of it. I'm just trying to reason with the concrete girders that have formed between some ears who continue to quote rubbish and use information that is obviously wrong.

But keep posting you really do amuse me, and my small mind.

PS, one thing that really does confuse me, can you actually debate anything, or are you not smart enough to actually contribute and not just stir the pot on occasion when you get angry and want to launch a sarcastic remark in a passive aggressive manner by pretending to talk to another poster? Its sort of a mark of a person with low self confidence and worth that you cant back your own agenda with your own information.

Last edited by 43Inches; 3rd Sep 2021 at 05:34.
43Inches is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.