Alan vs VA
Is Richard Branson any better?
September 2001
September 2001
With Virgin Blue staff in tears in the background fearing Branson had taken Ansett's money, Branson was apparently about to confirm the bad news in a staged media event at the Virgin Blue terminal in Melbourne on September 4 . "Oh f... it, I'm only joking," he said suddenly as the cameras whirred, and tore a pretend $250 million Ansett cheque into pieces in a moment that dominated that night's Australian TV news. Eight days later, Ansett went into voluntary liquidation and the Branson empire banked the dividend.
You know what? I've sat here for the last few days while you lot ignore the fact its hardly a level playing field to start with. Qantas has, and always will be, subsidised by the Australian government, despite the thin veil of being a private company. You look at the contracts they get, whether that be defence or civil and its clear that after Joe Public the Government are their second biggest customer. If AJ wants to whinge about Virgin asking for a bailout, maybe he should stop the boys club that has protected his pay check for so long.
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Melbourne
Age: 68
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Um , wonderous , sit there grinding your teeth all you like but QF hasn’t had a monopoly on Government contracts for a long time. But a sense of grievance is always more powerful than fact isn’t it ?
The question that will have to be resolved at the end of this was whether or not deregulation of aviation was worth it.
The old Australian Airlines , Ansett duopoly was cosy , certainly , but in a nation of 25 million the size of Australia how many airlines do you need ?
Just as the US was contemplating re-regulation Australian crossed the Rubicon and plunged head long into an open market.
The Government , of both persuasions ,has been trying to convince itself that it was a good idea ever since. Jetstar , Tiger , $50 airfares Sydney - Melbourne .... brilliant!
But is it resilient?
Is it just robber baron capitalism dressed up as competition?
Is Globalization really the panacea for low grow ?
Or is it all going belly up under real stress ?
Like deconstructed airspace.
Or emasculated regulators.
Big fat chickens are coming home to roost.
The question that will have to be resolved at the end of this was whether or not deregulation of aviation was worth it.
The old Australian Airlines , Ansett duopoly was cosy , certainly , but in a nation of 25 million the size of Australia how many airlines do you need ?
Just as the US was contemplating re-regulation Australian crossed the Rubicon and plunged head long into an open market.
The Government , of both persuasions ,has been trying to convince itself that it was a good idea ever since. Jetstar , Tiger , $50 airfares Sydney - Melbourne .... brilliant!
But is it resilient?
Is it just robber baron capitalism dressed up as competition?
Is Globalization really the panacea for low grow ?
Or is it all going belly up under real stress ?
Like deconstructed airspace.
Or emasculated regulators.
Big fat chickens are coming home to roost.
Just as the US was contemplating re-regulation Australian crossed the Rubicon and plunged head long into an open market.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Melbourne
Age: 77
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rubbish George
George it is BS that Virgin Blue buried Ansett. I was working in the corporate travel industry at the time and it was Qantas that buried Ansett. When they saw that Ansett was so weak they went for the jugular. They offered hard to refuse deals to every Ansett corporate customer they could. They stole every Ansett corporate customer they could irrespective of the profitability. Probably broke a few competition laws but never got caught. The day Ansett went belly up all the deals not signed went off the table in minutes. We had clients who tried to grab the Qantas deals the minute Ansett announced they were closing but Qantas refused. Qantas went after Virgin Blue by starting up JetStar to take away the LCC segment of the market that Virgin was in. Previously Qantas had been prepared to make route losses to drive Compass and Impulse to the wall. The demise of Ansett meant that the technique they had successfully used against Compass and Impulse was not working so they started an airline in the same segment as Virgin. Chris Corrigan who had bought into Virgin and outmaneuvered Branson then took Virgin upmarket in an attempt to give Qantas some of their own medicine. It looked like it was going to succeed at first but ultimately has not gained enough traction.
You want a level playing field? Destroy Qantas and allow any airline from anywhere in the world to fly domestically or internationally into/out of Australia. From Aeroflot to United.
Qantas has done SFA for the australian people. They are an expensive leach. They used to provide an Australian engineering capability that gave us some independence of action. All that is gone. We might just as well have China Southern for all the good it does Australia. 20000 staff? We lost that much in Baristas today.
Just look at the fares QF charged out of the USA last week. Price gouging. F#%} them.
Qantas has done SFA for the australian people. They are an expensive leach. They used to provide an Australian engineering capability that gave us some independence of action. All that is gone. We might just as well have China Southern for all the good it does Australia. 20000 staff? We lost that much in Baristas today.
Just look at the fares QF charged out of the USA last week. Price gouging. F#%} them.
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Melbourne
Age: 68
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Giant Bird , if you were corporate travel then you missed the point entirely. The government of the day never had the slightest intention of saving Ansett. It was determined to bust the duopoly , weaken the unions and bring down the cost of aviation for the average punter. Pure and simple. Virgin was the vehicle to make that happen. Three was a crowd. The weakest was allowed to fail. As for Corrigans “out manoeuvring” Branson , well that’s worked out well hasn’t it ? It was always a grand folly. Now its failed. Two premium airlines in a population of 25 million was a fantasy. The whole industry has been set up to fail by the decisions of successive governments over 20 years, no make that 30 , starting with Pilots Dispute.
Big fat chickens coming home to roost.
Big fat chickens coming home to roost.
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Melbourne
Age: 68
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just saw your post Sunfish.
You are delusional.
The countries that will come out the best of this are , as always , the Germans , the Japanese and the Scandinavians. Because they have a clear , focused idea of what their national interest is. China Southern ? Emirates etc. What in the Dieties name are we doing letting them have unrestricted access to our market ? The shakeout of this across the world will be a comprehensive reassessment of how to secure the Nations interests.
Oh, and hope you travel insurance on your Business class jolly to Europe.
Good grief.
You are delusional.
The countries that will come out the best of this are , as always , the Germans , the Japanese and the Scandinavians. Because they have a clear , focused idea of what their national interest is. China Southern ? Emirates etc. What in the Dieties name are we doing letting them have unrestricted access to our market ? The shakeout of this across the world will be a comprehensive reassessment of how to secure the Nations interests.
Oh, and hope you travel insurance on your Business class jolly to Europe.
Good grief.
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: HKG
Posts: 399
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You want a level playing field? Destroy Qantas and allow any airline from anywhere in the world to fly domestically or internationally into/out of Australia. From Aeroflot to United.
Qantas has done SFA for the australian people. They are an expensive leach. They used to provide an Australian engineering capability that gave us some independence of action. All that is gone. We might just as well have China Southern for all the good it does Australia. 20000 staff? We lost that much in Baristas today.
Just look at the fares QF charged out of the USA last week. Price gouging. F#%} them.
Qantas has done SFA for the australian people. They are an expensive leach. They used to provide an Australian engineering capability that gave us some independence of action. All that is gone. We might just as well have China Southern for all the good it does Australia. 20000 staff? We lost that much in Baristas today.
Just look at the fares QF charged out of the USA last week. Price gouging. F#%} them.
Jetstar won’t have a “raisin d’ętre” and could well be consigned to the scrap heap.
You want a level playing field? Destroy Qantas and allow any airline from anywhere in the world to fly domestically or internationally into/out of Australia. From Aeroflot to United.
Qantas has done SFA for the australian people. They are an expensive leach. They used to provide an Australian engineering capability that gave us some independence of action. All that is gone. We might just as well have China Southern for all the good it does Australia. 20000 staff? We lost that much in Baristas today.
Just look at the fares QF charged out of the USA last week. Price gouging. F#%} them.
Qantas has done SFA for the australian people. They are an expensive leach. They used to provide an Australian engineering capability that gave us some independence of action. All that is gone. We might just as well have China Southern for all the good it does Australia. 20000 staff? We lost that much in Baristas today.
Just look at the fares QF charged out of the USA last week. Price gouging. F#%} them.
What we have now are many suits telling the media exactly what they want to hear along with casuals,part timers,contractors & a diminishing full time workforce trying to make the jigsaw work every day.
Moderator
For a preview on the cost of air travel post a Virgin/Tiger failure read this thread: Qantas $1800 to Perth one way to beat border close
Flying SYD/PER may be cheaper via LAX/LHR/SIN?
The Government are in no doubt what a QF monopoly would do to domestic air travel in Australia.
Flying SYD/PER may be cheaper via LAX/LHR/SIN?
The Government are in no doubt what a QF monopoly would do to domestic air travel in Australia.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: rice bowl
Posts: 113
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
With the muddled foreign airline ownership of VA, to thwart and stifle QF’s intrinsic monopolistic behaviour just let foreign airlines fly domestic. Even AIR NZ.
That should wind up the little Irishman. He won’t like dat. To be sure. Cue the “I still call Australia home” choir.
That should wind up the little Irishman. He won’t like dat. To be sure. Cue the “I still call Australia home” choir.
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 137
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I thought Joyce's comments were directed at even treatment by the government for all airlines, after a suggestion that VAH might be bailed out preferentially and re-capitalised.
Apart from the principal that governments should not be in the business of capitalising private airline operators, the reality is not good for VAH because of its pre existing perilous finance metrics.
QAN has the internal and external commercial financial resources to sustain a significant non flying period, but make no mistake, pilots will eventually be made redundant as it will take years to recover back to a pre COVID position.
It's impossible to know how VAH will emerge from this. Things can change daily.
Apart from the principal that governments should not be in the business of capitalising private airline operators, the reality is not good for VAH because of its pre existing perilous finance metrics.
QAN has the internal and external commercial financial resources to sustain a significant non flying period, but make no mistake, pilots will eventually be made redundant as it will take years to recover back to a pre COVID position.
It's impossible to know how VAH will emerge from this. Things can change daily.