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ATR72 Canberra runway incursion

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ATR72 Canberra runway incursion

Old 1st Oct 2019, 03:06
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ATR72 Canberra runway incursion

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Old 1st Oct 2019, 03:58
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They picked up on the error that’s the main thing, they didn’t roll or depart. One would hope this would be fairly obvious considering how little length was in front of them, could have been a different outcome late night. Countless cases of this occurring in other countries in which most don’t really pick up on the error until the tail is for some reason wiping out the runway lights past the end.



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Old 1st Oct 2019, 05:33
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One can't be too careful.

Although not at Canberra, but not all that far away, I did much the same late at night many years ago, didn't realise my error, took off and got a substantial fright.

One of the few times I let myself get out of the normal checking sequence which included a runway heading check ... I never let that happen again ...
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Old 1st Oct 2019, 11:54
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What was the vis like that night? Looks like they’ve simply followed the first taxi line they saw?.
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Old 1st Oct 2019, 14:25
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That is one hell of a confusing intersection.

I’ve never taken off from Golf in a jet, but I’ve vacated there after landing on 17 plenty of times.

I’d put it down as an accident waiting to happen.
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Old 1st Oct 2019, 17:27
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Originally Posted by Derfred
That is one hell of a confusing intersection.

I’ve never taken off from Golf in a jet, but I’ve vacated there after landing on 17 plenty of times.

I’d put it down as an accident waiting to happen.
And a similar accident has happened with fatalities in Lexington, USA back in 2006. This example is widely used in human factors training at various airlines in the USA.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comair_Flight_5191
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Old 2nd Oct 2019, 00:13
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I did my ab initio training at YSCB. I never found the layout of the airport in the least bit confusing.

YMMB, on the other hand, is chaotic and, in my view, a catastrophe waiting to happen.
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Old 2nd Oct 2019, 11:14
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The weather was fine. I was cleared to line up and wait at intersection N 35 as the ATR behind me was cleared for take off from G. I couldn’t see if he had started to roll, but heard the Tower controller telling him to “STOP STOP STOP”.

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Old 2nd Oct 2019, 11:27
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Originally Posted by On Track
I never found the layout of the airport in the least bit confusing.
Well the intersection was flagged as a hotspot, so you may have been missing something!
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Old 2nd Oct 2019, 12:26
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Originally Posted by Capt Fathom

Well the intersection was flagged as a hotspot, so you may have been missing something!
Actually I don't know that it was back in those days, and I had never heard of AIP, ERSA, DAP, etc at that stage of my training.
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Old 3rd Oct 2019, 09:42
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Originally Posted by On Track
I did my ab initio training at YSCB. I never found the layout of the airport in the least bit confusing.
Well, given your familiarity with the airport, I guess it wouldn’t be!

Not every pilot using the airport will have your familiarity.
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Old 3rd Oct 2019, 10:54
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Line marking for bays is also terrible.
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Old 3rd Oct 2019, 14:35
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Originally Posted by kcboy
This is being blown out of proportion,.. They followed the wrong lead in lines (understandable looking at the airport diagram) never took off, admitted they made a mistake and ostensibly taxied off the runway and departed on the correct runway? Not a massive deal? I don’t get how this warrants a prune thread

^^^^This x 1000. Crew made a small cock up and fixed it before it became a problem.
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Old 3rd Oct 2019, 20:08
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I’m interested in the ‘stop stop stops’ statement. How far into the takeoff did they get? This recent incident is mega alarming to me and should not be played down. I could write 3 pages on why I believe this but I don’t have the time right now. In a nutshell there is clear policy and procedures to prevent this at VA. I would be looking closely at Standards and Training!

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Old 3rd Oct 2019, 20:46
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Originally Posted by kcboy
This is being blown out of proportion,.. They followed the wrong lead in lines (understandable looking at the airport diagram) never took off, admitted they made a mistake and ostensibly taxied off the runway and departed on the correct runway? Not a massive deal? I don’t get how this warrants a prune thread
its a massive deal! They didn’t recognise they were on the wrong runway. Loss of situational awareness by the crew.
ATC stoped them, was the Stop Stop Stop issued before or after take off clearance?
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Old 3rd Oct 2019, 21:59
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Originally Posted by kcboy
This is being blown out of proportion,.. They followed the wrong lead in lines (understandable looking at the airport diagram) never took off, admitted they made a mistake and ostensibly taxied off the runway and departed on the correct runway? Not a massive deal? I don’t get how this warrants a prune thread
There's an old saying...……….."rob a bank of $1 dollar or $million dollars you are still a bank robber"!
Whilst the outcome was minor the potential was huge! Safety cannot be trivialised.
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Old 3rd Oct 2019, 22:04
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I would be looking at why the hell you would want to be taking off from Golf at night in an ATR. Just because it is possible, doesnt mean its a good idea...... and Im not talking about the line markings being the issue.
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Old 3rd Oct 2019, 22:37
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kcboy is correct, there are ‘question marks’ all over this and the final report ‘may’ shed some light. The reason for the 140 degree lineup will be interesting.

Airmanship gone wrong, Human Factors.......Tic Toc
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Old 3rd Oct 2019, 23:27
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Originally Posted by Chadzat
I would be looking at why the hell you would want to be taking off from Golf at night in an ATR. Just because it is possible, doesnt mean its a good idea...... and Im not talking about the line markings being the issue.
Please elaborate. Is this another one of those “runway behind you is no good” things that is really only applicable to flying a 152 and not an ATR or any transport category aircraft for that matter?
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Old 3rd Oct 2019, 23:41
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Originally Posted by kcboy
“The flight crew later advised that, as they turned on to runway 30 they realised something was wrong, and soon after air traffic control advised them to stop.”

We will have to wait for the final report to come out here but no where does it say the take off was commenced and/or a rejected take off executed. As soon as ATC notice something wrong on the ground the standard phraseology is “stop stop stop” for anything like this - not for just a rejected take off. Again, I’m just guessing here but I would of thought had the crew started the take off, then the preliminary report would of mentioned that a rejected take off was executed. So for this reason I stand by my original thoughts - this is out of proportion, an error was made, (and a totally understandable one when I look at the airport diagram) recognised, and then rectified.
if you listen to the ATC recording there is no communication from the ATR to ATC advising them they were on the incorrect runway. In this instance Canberra tower were all over it and recognized what the crew should of.
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