Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Worldwide > Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific
Reload this Page >

Qantas A320NEO family orders - when & where will they be deployed?

Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Qantas A320NEO family orders - when & where will they be deployed?

Old 18th Sep 2019, 07:18
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: VIC
Posts: 3
Qantas A320NEO family orders - when & where will they be deployed?

Is there any information as to when Qantas Group will start receiving deliveries of the 109 A320NEO family aircraft it has on order?

Has there been any word from Qantas of how these aircraft will be deployed? Or a timeline of when they will make a decision? IE, for QF 737 replacements or for JQ A320 expansion/replacements for example.
DeepHopePastLife is offline  
Old 18th Sep 2019, 19:44
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Australia
Posts: 104
Rumours are the new frames will go to JQ, the older A320s will be B737 replacements for QF as well as additional for Network. Also JQ B788s to QF, not sure how they'll replace some B788 routes as the A321XLR doesn't have the range of some JQ routes (QF to take them?). But as with all things, these are just rumours.
f1yhigh is offline  
Old 18th Sep 2019, 21:44
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Denmark
Posts: 0
Originally Posted by f1yhigh View Post
Rumours are the new frames will go to JQ, the older A320s will be B737 replacements for QF as well as additional for Network. Also JQ B788s to QF, not sure how they'll replace some B788 routes as the A321XLR doesn't have the range of some JQ routes (QF to take them?). But as with all things, these are just rumours.
If even a little bit of that was true, surely at least one of the 73 training staff would have knowledge of this?! Just look at the debacle at VA with a fleet change of 11 aircraft. I very much doubt QF would do any better and and at what cost!

I think the NEOs will be JANZ and JQ ASIA, as for 78s Hopefully QF get them.
Ragnor is offline  
Old 18th Sep 2019, 21:51
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Australia
Posts: 104
Originally Posted by Ragnor View Post


If even a little bit of that was true, surely at least one of the 73 training staff would have knowledge of this?! Just look at the debacle at VA with a fleet change of 11 aircraft. I very much doubt QF would do any better and and at what cost!

I think the NEOs will be JANZ and JQ ASIA, as for 78s Hopefully QF get them.
This was a rumour I heard from a JQ A320 pilot. Who knows how much truth there is to it. Be that as it may, you're right, and it certainly wouldn't be in the immediate future either.
f1yhigh is offline  
Old 18th Sep 2019, 22:02
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 1
Ragnor, I would hope that QF would have their shit together enough to avoid the drama across the road at the other team, but in fairness, that fleet swap was, in my uninformed opinion, an ill conceived dumb move initiated by people no longer in the business, who made said decision for reasons we mortals can only imagine, but I can’t possibly believe it was part of a bigger, coordinated plan to reduce operational overlap and duplicated cost.

Remember - change gives the illusion of progress
Snakecharma is offline  
Old 19th Sep 2019, 01:08
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Oz
Posts: 856
Jetstar Asia are getting nothing. Vietnam are also getting nothing. Kiwi land gets nothing either, itís just aircraft rotating.

Japan and Oz are the only two carriers run out of Collingwood. The other two are just window dressing.

There is about 25 aircraft off lease this half of next decade in Oz. Another 25 in the back half of the next decade. Japan is just growth.

PoppaJo is offline  
Old 19th Sep 2019, 01:46
  #7 (permalink)  
ebt
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Perth
Posts: 178
Qantas will keep their options open for 737-800 replacement and are waiting on the NMA so they can compare it with the A321LR/XLR. Still, given how hard JQ is going on the A321, the NMA is going to have to be a pretty awesome reborn 767 to get in there. Expect Boeing to offer up a mix of NMAs and perhaps Max 10s and 8s in a package deal, maybe even with some E2s thrown in to replace the 717s.

For now though, with the other mob at least two years away (perhaps more) from touching their first Max, they can take their sweet time when it comes to narrowbodies.

More likely will be that some of the 787-8s from JQ will transfer across to QF once the neos get going in JQ and take over the runs to Bali. At that point, they might decide that JQ steps out of widebody altogether, and the -8s supplement or replace the A330s into Asia. It was always intended that the -8s at JQ would be replaced by the -9s that offer lower CASK and greater range, but the way they are deploying the -8s now tells me that the idea of longhaul low-cost dominance is out of favour.
ebt is offline  
Old 19th Sep 2019, 01:49
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 64
Originally Posted by PoppaJo View Post
Jetstar Asia are getting nothing. Vietnam are also getting nothing. Kiwi land gets nothing either, itís just aircraft rotating.

Japan and Oz are the only two carriers run out of Collingwood.
I think youíll find JANZ (Jetstar Australia and New Zealand) is run out of Collingwood and Japan is run independently up in Narita. JJP also has its own independent order book for aircraft.
Sparrows. is offline  
Old 19th Sep 2019, 02:16
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Ballarat
Posts: 53
Originally Posted by ebt View Post
More likely will be that some of the 787-8s from JQ will transfer across to QF once the neos get going in JQ and take over the runs to Bali. At that point, they might decide that JQ steps out of widebody altogether, and the -8s supplement or replace the A330s into Asia. It was always intended that the -8s at JQ would be replaced by the -9s that offer lower CASK and greater range, but the way they are deploying the -8s now tells me that the idea of longhaul low-cost dominance is out of favour.
Whilst I think you're probably right, at the last roadshow Salter was adamant they are making a business case for more 787s at JQ. Make of that what you will.
Paddleboat is offline  
Old 19th Sep 2019, 04:19
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Oz
Posts: 856
Give me the logic in how this loco can offload itís entire 787 fleet and operate it with 321 when the 321 canít even operate half the current 787 network. Anyone please....
PoppaJo is offline  
Old 19th Sep 2019, 05:00
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Wherever I can log on.
Posts: 1,759
My personal view (history will decide how accurate my view is):

Most of the 18 A321LR's will go to JQ to replace the B787-8 on Bali services. The remainder will probably do mainline routes that require more capacity than the B737-800's (QF domestic badly need an aircraft between the B738 & A332, ie they miss the B767) - who will fly them will be the major industrial firefight as QF has been grooming Network to fly single aisle Airbuses at a lower rate than mainline.

The massive order for A321XLR's will probably all go to JQ to replace B787-8's on Asian & Orient routes with the later deliveries operating to Bali thus freeing up the LR's to be transferred to mainline domestic routes (just in time for QF to pay for the first heavy maintenance check).

All the JQ B787-8's will be transferred to mainline to replace the older A330-200's on Asian routes - the oldest A332's are near the end of their life and no replacement has been announced (or even a project started to look for a replacement so it looks very likely that the JQ B788's will fill this role). The big problem for QF management is that the B787 award is heavily biased towards pilot savings on the LR & ULR routes but they are more expensive than A330 pilots on Asian routes - I suspect that this is where Tino the Spiv wants savings in the QF B787 award as announced in his nasty email.

The only JQ Intl route that the A321XLR's won't be able to replace the B788's on is HNL but, as the market has been saying for a long time, pax don't want to be dipping into their wallet on 9 hour sectors and thus prefer a premium product. Hawaiian blew JQ away on the BNE-HNL route due to better product & pricing). Thus, I believe that mainline will operate the route with a daily service, no JQ services.

This adjustment to fleets would leave JQ with effectively a single fleet (wrt pilot endorsements) and relieve it of the cost burden of running a relatively small fleet of B788's. It's been apparent for a long time that the B787 family (-8, -9 & -10) are perfectly suited to replace the A332's & A333's in mainline so the JQ aircraft are perfect to start this process. This is the first time in Napoleon's tenure as QF Group CEO that there is a bit of logic in fleet planning/strategy - he's made a lot of stuff-ups in the past.

I know that there will be some who disagree but I think this plan is logical and relatively free of bias.
Going Boeing is online now  
Old 19th Sep 2019, 05:58
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: 3rd rock from the sun
Posts: 1,827
So how do you replace a nearly always full 787 with an A321? Ever tried to get a staff travel seat on the SGN route for example?

Apart from maybe increasing frequency, I donít see it being possible. QF pilots with stars in their eyes maybe?

Wheres the figures to support the claim that the 787ís arenít profitable at JQ?
morno is offline  
Old 19th Sep 2019, 06:23
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: In the Trees
Posts: 159
737ís are history at Qantas, expect to see the 738ís replaced by 321NEO, similar burn but a lot more bums on seats. Fleet commonality within the group and the ability to transfer aircraft when needed between groups. Think containerized cargo, less ramp staff, pilot controlled loading. The group has a huge order for these things, and it has never been stated that they are all for Jetstar.

787 will stay at Jetstar for at least the medium term.
ANCDU is offline  
Old 19th Sep 2019, 06:43
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Wherever I can log on.
Posts: 1,759
Originally Posted by morno View Post
So how do you replace a nearly always full 787 with an A321? Ever tried to get a staff travel seat on the SGN route for example?

Apart from maybe increasing frequency, I donít see it being possible. QF pilots with stars in their eyes maybe?

Wheres the figures to support the claim that the 787ís arenít profitable at JQ?
36 A321XLRís replacing 11 B787-8ís would indicate a much higher frequency.

Great for increasing pilot numbers and promotions.

There has been a lot of discussion within the Group about how the B788ís are costing JQ a lot more than the A332ís. The most obvious being a small fleet of Boeings mixed with a large fleet of Airbuses which means significantly higher spares inventory as well as longer pilot and engineer training courses. Also, JQ had to buy & maintain a B787 Simulator whereas they didnít pay for the A330 Simulator time (100% certain of that). The Fleet size is a significant factor - if JQ had 15 B788ís they wouldnít have to buy any more spare parts & probably employ no more ground engineers due to efficiencies of scale. Substituting 36 A321XLRís will see very significant reduction in spares, engineering training costs, pilot training, pilot rostering & disruption management.

From my experience ,itís a clear decision that will save a lot of money & more clearly define JQ Intl as a LLC with high frequency, single aisle operations which provides distinct product differentiation from mainline operations.
Going Boeing is online now  
Old 19th Sep 2019, 07:03
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Oz
Posts: 856
Your just writing what you want to hear.

The 321 cannot do Hawaii, Vietnam, Seoul ,Thailand, some Japan, China.

You think they are just going to cede all this market to TG, VN, D7, HA etc...?
PoppaJo is offline  
Old 19th Sep 2019, 11:51
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 190
Originally Posted by PoppaJo View Post
Your just writing what you want to hear.

The 321 cannot do Hawaii, Vietnam, Seoul ,Thailand, some Japan, China.

You think they are just going to cede all this market to TG, VN, D7, HA etc...?
The A321xlr has a quoted range of 4700nm

MEL-BKK is about 4000nm
MEL-SVG is about 3700nm

Hawaii would have to be canned but likely picked up by Qantas. Seoul, what's left of Japan and China are relatively insignificant in the scheme of things.

logansi is offline  
Old 19th Sep 2019, 12:02
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: 3rd rock from the sun
Posts: 1,827
Originally Posted by logansi View Post
The A321xlr has a quoted range of 4700nm

MEL-BKK is about 4000nm
MEL-SVG is about 3700nm

Hawaii would have to be canned but likely picked up by Qantas. Seoul, what's left of Japan and China are relatively insignificant in the scheme of things.
MEL-SVG is 10,109Nmís. I donít think JQ go there do they?
morno is offline  
Old 19th Sep 2019, 12:14
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 1
Those quotes ranges are usually fairly optimistic

min fuel, 100nm alternate, that sort of thing.

I have no clue what the real figures are but I am always sceptical of the sales figures.
Snakecharma is offline  
Old 19th Sep 2019, 12:37
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: sincity
Posts: 1,117
Originally Posted by morno View Post


MEL-SVG is 10,109Nmís. I donít think JQ go there do they?
Well Norwegian are struggling, time for JQ to strike!
maggot is online now  
Old 19th Sep 2019, 13:15
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 190
Originally Posted by morno View Post


MEL-SVG is 10,109Nmís. I donít think JQ go there do they?
SGN lol Been a long day. Then again at the rate we are going single-aisle are growing why can't I forsee a 11,000nm A321UXLR haha
logansi is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.