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Project Sunrise

Old 12th Sep 2019, 03:54
  #121 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Unfortunately not the Orient
Posts: 300
Heís trying it on. Last time they ordered more, they got a ďcomfortĒ letter about Jetconnect. There is no boogie man this time, so they are trying it on again. Thankfully no one is biting.

They will order planes irrespective of the T&Cís of the pilots. They just managed to prove to everyone that they will never do anything in good faith. Itís now confirmed, adjust your behaviour accordingly. Might see if I can buy into a fuel company in the Pilbara. I think that email just increased their revenue by at least 300%.
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Old 12th Sep 2019, 04:33
  #122 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
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Originally Posted by dragon man View Post


You got it, but we are told that as 82% voted for it it was a great deal. Welcome to the brave new world of fleet pay based on the 787 with no overtime.
82% were sold something that (way out of their depth) negotiators decided people wanted, from a union with zero strategy.
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Old 12th Sep 2019, 05:30
  #123 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Originally Posted by ConfigFull View Post
82% were sold something that (way out of their depth) negotiators decided people wanted, from a union with zero strategy.
With no mandate other than the vote plus the threat of no backpay if you reject it.
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Old 12th Sep 2019, 06:11
  #124 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
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Iíve submitted the solution to Alan, 5 second officers - think of the money saving.

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Old 12th Sep 2019, 07:30
  #125 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
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Originally Posted by Capn Rex Havoc View Post
Iíve submitted the solution to Alan, 5 second officers - think of the money saving.

Careful there Rex, ever ready for a "game changing" advancement, Little Napoleon and Tino la Spiv might seize that idea...
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Old 12th Sep 2019, 07:37
  #126 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Wellington
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I was told that the stated opening position of Qantas was that they wanted Project Publicity at B787 rates MINUS 10%....."quantum of productivity improvements" indeed.
Let the beatings continue until moral improves.
Hopefully tomorrow's SH EBA Vote results will be a fair indicator to the company what we think of this.
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Old 12th Sep 2019, 08:33
  #127 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
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Originally Posted by Capn Rex Havoc View Post
Iíve submitted the solution to Alan, 5 second officers - think of the money saving.

They can't all have the fish.
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Old 13th Sep 2019, 00:49
  #128 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: South Sydney Australia
Posts: 65
Originally Posted by Seaview2 View Post

This was the idea of a schedule to run 5 crew 1 Cpt 2 FOs and 2 SOs.
I like the concept and the maths!

However, having done SYD-LAX, SYD- ARG, SYD-SCL, SIN-LON as well as DFW in various configurations as an S/O, F/O and Capt on different Long-Haul fleets, is the potential problem if one or two Pilots donít get to sleep when prescribed!

Looking at the diurnal variation from any start point thatís a possibility in Project Sunrise. Having witnessed the reality in different ranks, I know the probability in historic and current Long-Haul Flight Operations!

The effect when a Pilots out-of-synch (no ability to sleep) on the rest of the Flight Crew can be uncomforting to say the very least. How that transcribes inside a 24hr TOD could be harmful.

Not detracting from your viewpoint at all, however perhaps Risk Mitigation (at least in the short-term) maybe better prescribed with Six Pilots (Watch Qantas Scream!) until the Pilot Group and Safety Experts have enough Scientific and Operational Data to re-evaluate the exact requirements!
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Old 13th Sep 2019, 02:44
  #129 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Australia
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Originally Posted by Capt Colonial View Post
I like the concept and the maths!

maybe better prescribed with Six Pilots
Couldnít agree more. Just kinda making the point that even with 5 pilots they would all be doing 9ish hours in the seat. The talk of doing it with only 4 pilots would be ridiculously dangerous.

Even 6 pilots would be less then the 7 it currently takes to get the QF1 from Sydney to London every day.

Just trying to figure a way where company and pilots win re only operating with 4 and still be reasonably cost effective.
Hopefully somewhere during the 11 or 13 hour break in the my 5 crew scenario above the Landing Cpt and Fo would manage to get enough sleep to be safe at the end.

Having done a lot of ULR both at Qantas and Emirates I found it worked quite well at EK when before a duty you knew which break you would be on and be rested accordingly as opposed to Qf where you usually donít. Yes didnít always manage to sleep but it gave me the best chance. If Sunrise goes ahead then I think something similar would be necessary.

Cheers.
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Old 13th Sep 2019, 07:30
  #130 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: SZR
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Despite the floors in Emirates, itís actually one of the better things they do for ULRs. Prior coming to work you know exactly what break you will be on, and there is no changing unless 48hrs prior notice is given by the operating captain.

100% agree it should be implemented IF sunrise goes ahead. But letís be honest, itís not going to happen. The excuse media propaganda train has well and truely left the station.
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Old 13th Sep 2019, 07:36
  #131 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
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And another key difference there is that Emirates is also 2 CA, 2 FO for ULR (and 3 man complement is 2 CA, 1 FO)
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Old 13th Sep 2019, 07:37
  #132 (permalink)  
 
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Short haul EBA voted down 68 to 32, how good is that. Congratulations to all who voted against it.
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Old 13th Sep 2019, 07:40
  #133 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: SE QLD
Posts: 217
I look forward to the company email...
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Old 13th Sep 2019, 08:18
  #134 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: South Sydney Australia
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Originally Posted by dragon man View Post
Short haul EBA voted down 68 to 32, how good is that. Congratulations to all who voted against it.
Yes, outstanding. Credit where Credit is due, however!
A certain up and coming CEO at the Flying Kangaroo, in timing that could be construed to be exceptionally poor, launches a missive at the Pilot group and by his own words manages to do what AIPA, QPA, or the Pilot group itself has not done for decades, and that is, uniting the Pilots in a common industrial cause's against a common industrial adversary.

Well done TLS exceptional work!
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Old 13th Sep 2019, 08:26
  #135 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Australia
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Originally Posted by Capt Colonial View Post
...manages to do what AIPA, QPA, or the Pilot group itself has not done for decades...
Including the QPA in that list as if it's an actual thing.

Cute...
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Old 13th Sep 2019, 09:01
  #136 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Richmond
Age: 67
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Originally Posted by dragon man View Post
Short haul EBA voted down 68 to 32, how good is that. Congratulations to all who voted against it.
Happy to withdraw my comments which were based on a misleading post.
It has since been clarified that the vote was 68% v 32%, assuming it was from a traditional voter participation.

Last edited by JamieMaree; 13th Sep 2019 at 09:35.
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Old 13th Sep 2019, 09:05
  #137 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 147
Well you would be incorrect.
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Old 13th Sep 2019, 09:10
  #138 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Australia
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Originally Posted by JamieMaree View Post


What a pathetic result! By my estimate the eligible voters should be in the order of 400 +/-.
100 voted. What does the other 300 think? Donít they care? Are they to scared to vote? Donít want to put their hand up to be counted in one camp or the other. I know the system says the EBA was voted down but it it far from a decisive victory for all those who are purporting it was a dud deal.
Talk about sending a message.........NOT!

Thats 68 percent mate. A lot more than 400 voted
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Old 13th Sep 2019, 09:58
  #139 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 192
I believe it was about 470+ pilots that voted no
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Old 13th Sep 2019, 10:15
  #140 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: South Sydney Australia
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Originally Posted by engine out View Post
I believe it was about 470+ pilots that voted no




"Any agreement needs to recognise the importance of the pilots’ role in the business, balance risk and reward while acknowledging the impact work has on home life"

It will be interesting to observe the developments next by Qantas Corporate and Qantas H.R. in consideration of recent timelines forwarded for Project Sunrise.

Will AIPA place Project Sunrise negotiations on hold pending discussions to ratify an acceptable Short Haul E.A in line with the philosophy above?

Given resources/resourcing and a pending AIPA election, I suspect that the industrial machinations and whole environment may be very interesting towards the end of the year.
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