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Jetstar EBA 2019

Old 1st Jan 2020, 09:33
  #561 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2008
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You don't seem to mention about all of the QF staff that JQ pilots now beat to a seat on QF metal. JQ pilots don't do too bad now.
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Old 1st Jan 2020, 09:42
  #562 (permalink)  
 
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Does a QF pilot on Duty Travel get lounge access today?
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Old 1st Jan 2020, 10:11
  #563 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by T-Vasis View Post
Does a QF pilot on Duty Travel get lounge access today?
Yep. Sure do.
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Old 1st Jan 2020, 10:19
  #564 (permalink)  
 
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Why would you be seeking parity to Qantas when it is another airline and another company? Just because it is part of the 'Group', does not mean that all conditions should be aligned across all airline groups. They don't for many parts of the business, and for good reason (mostly cost). If this 'benefit' is desired - then why not join Qantas? JQ is an LCC, so, their 'conditions' reflect that of an LCC. I am not sure why there is this mentality.

There are career/employment benefits for working at JQ and there are career/employment benefits for working at QF. And this replicates around the world. Personally - you are better off focussing on the things that really matter to you, and defending those. Not throwing all the 'other airlines benefits' into the basket, especially something like 'lounge', which has such little materiality.

Have a few, meaningful terms and conditions versus a laundry list of 'match this and match that'... My view anyway...
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Old 1st Jan 2020, 10:40
  #565 (permalink)  
 
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Will industrial action work? Who knows?, but my guess is no, it won’t And worse still the JQ IR negotiating team, in all likelihood, believe this also. To presume that the QF&JQ managers have not war gamed and simulated the possibility of every permutation of industrial action is naive.
For those that cannot live with the status quo, I’d be getting in ahead of the wave and applying for a position with Tiger or Virgin where Ts&Cs are better and also overseas. Not so easy for those with significant seniority in which case I’d be looking overseas for a DEC position. There are jobs overseas for well qualified and experienced pilots.
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Old 1st Jan 2020, 10:40
  #566 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
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They are seeking equal pay for an equal service, I don't see why that's hard to understand.

As for the lounge access, it's extremely pleasant after a shift before pacing to relax in a clean and comfortable environment instead of the crew room or in the local coffee shop fighting for a seat. Just my two cents though.

That prehistoric notion of "if you don't like the conditions find another job" is quite behind the times. Budget airlines are budget airlines, but there's no such thing as a budget pilot.

I still can't fathom the decision to not give the same benifits (as Qantas) to this pilot group, consider qlink EFA and network get better.
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Old 1st Jan 2020, 10:54
  #567 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
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But it isn't an equal service as it is not an equal business. I don't agree with this comparison. Two banks don't necessarily pay the same wage for an equal role. It will always be different. LCC's are LCC's. They survive because of a low cost base. Without that - it's dead. That is the nature of the beast. You have a choice where you work. I choose company A because of these benefits, or I choose company B because of these benefts. Pushing an agenda that will just not heppen, is not best use of time and resources. Optimise. Don't cheery pick usless 'comforts' that don't materilally improve your working conditions.
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Old 1st Jan 2020, 11:15
  #568 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
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It's quite impossible to agree with your notion, the salary increase would be insignificant to the overheads at best, again I will say, There's no such thing as a budget pilot, equal pay for equal service, and that equal service is those two/three people flying the same class aircraft as the other three main carriers.

The fairytale that pilots can jump between companies easily and effortlessly is just that, Jetstar will be the career job for a lot of these pilots and the current stance that the company is taking is unsustainable.

​"​​​​If you don't like it leave policy" is again, dated and quite impossible to defend.
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Old 1st Jan 2020, 11:17
  #569 (permalink)  
 
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I think youíll find things like lounge access weíre not just handed to Mainline, but agreed to during varying EBA negotiations. The question is what would you be willing to trade to get it?
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Old 1st Jan 2020, 11:22
  #570 (permalink)  
 
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the salary increase would be insignificant to the overheads at best
But where does it end? And with what parts of the business? On aggregate, cASK erodes. Eventually you tread water. JQ needs deeper profit margins to 'weather' poor periods. It is cyclical, and variable to much outside of the airlines control. If they hover around the profitability line, a few negative periods may result in closure (just look around the globe), then all suffer. No offence - but I think this is an ideology of equal aircraft class and equal pay. Fine if profit margins are also equal. They're not.
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Old 1st Jan 2020, 11:35
  #571 (permalink)  
 
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Interesting thread on main forum -

Totals 2019

No it’s no Oz but it is certainly interesting to see what is paid at similar organisations around the world.

What cannot be compared is contract work (ie China) as it’s just that, contract work, great while it’s there however.............

Interesting to watch, the BOCs do look like a good win.
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Old 1st Jan 2020, 12:07
  #572 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
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Originally Posted by T-Vasis View Post
But where does it end? And with what parts of the business? On aggregate, cASK erodes. Eventually you tread water. JQ needs deeper profit margins to 'weather' poor periods. It is cyclical, and variable to much outside of the airlines control. If they hover around the profitability line, a few negative periods may result in closure (just look around the globe), then all suffer. No offence - but I think this is an ideology of equal aircraft class and equal pay. Fine if profit margins are also equal. They're not.
Jetstar are looking at increasing its margin by 70% in the next 5 years.

The national carrier is aiming for the Qantas Domestic segment to hit an operating margin of 18 per cent by 2024. Budget subsidiary Jetstar Domestic is also targeting a 22 per cent margin by the same time, currently 14%.

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Old 1st Jan 2020, 12:09
  #573 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
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Profit margin, not operating margin.
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Old 1st Jan 2020, 15:14
  #574 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
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Originally Posted by T-Vasis View Post
I think this is an ideology of equal aircraft class and equal pay. Fine if profit margins are also equal. They're not.
By that logic ... Tiger has a zero profit margin ... Jetstar has a significantly positive one .. so JQ pilots should be paid more than Tiger?

also ROI (return on investment) is the highest at JQ of any of QF groups, so for every dollar QF board invests in this Business unit, it returns them back the MOST profit.

Thereís clearly room to close the Pay gap.
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Old 1st Jan 2020, 20:13
  #575 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by engine out View Post
I think youíll find things like lounge access weíre not just handed to Mainline, but agreed to during varying EBA negotiations. The question is what would you be willing to trade to get it?
Access to the qantas club was one of the few things Gareth said we could have. Not sure if thatís still on the table though.

Given that the majority of paxing is on Jetstar I donít see why club access is that important. I canít see myself trekking from T4 in Melbourne to qantas domestic for a free coffee.
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Old 1st Jan 2020, 20:44
  #576 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by mulisector;10651519[left
also ROI (return on investment) is the highest at JQ of any of QF groups, so for every dollar QF board invests in this Business unit, it returns them back the MOST profit.

Thereís clearly room to close the Pay gap.
Can you quote the figures that prove this? Any Annual report references or ASX statements? [/left]
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Old 1st Jan 2020, 20:47
  #577 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
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Originally Posted by engine out View Post
I think youíll find things like lounge access weíre not just handed to Mainline, but agreed to during varying EBA negotiations. The question is what would you be willing to trade to get it?
Nothing. Wish my colleagues would forget about lounge access etc. if youíre using it before pacing youíre turning up to early. Itís a nothing thing to have and serves no benefit to the greater cause.
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Old 1st Jan 2020, 21:45
  #578 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
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By that logic ... Tiger has a zero profit margin ... Jetstar has a significantly positive one .. so JQ pilots should be paid more than Tiger?
Tigerair has a negative EBITDAR margin. It is technically bankrupt. It can only keep operating because it is being funded by VA. If it was on its own - it would need to borrow cash in order to keep operating. The TT pilots don't know how luckly they are. That business would 'close up shop' without a debt funding source. But you introduced a different company into the discussion. I refer to JQ and QF. It seems you're looking for an 'industry standard' renumeration/terms and conditions package. Why should that be the case? Every company is different.

also ROI (return on investment) is the highest at JQ of any of QF groups, so for every dollar QF board invests in this Business unit, it returns them back the MOST profit.
ROIC would be the appropriate comparison measure. But important here to note is JQ does not invest in assets/infrastructure/services as much as QF, so they are poor comparisons. JQ needs to be benchmarked on a similar LCC business, where almost all assets (except for x aircraft that were purchased), infrastructure is leased and services subcontracted etc.
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Old 1st Jan 2020, 21:50
  #579 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sydney
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You are part of the Qantas group. Allan has a hard 3% line drawn in the sand, and he is not going to budge. Forget about it, it's not going to happen.

If Jetstar pilots get 10% or 5% or whatever, next Qantas pilots will be going for 10%, then Network will want 20%, then Qlink will want 12% to catch up blah blah blah. It's just not going to happen. Forget about it.

If you want pay parity with Qantas pilots, well sorry at some point you need to understand you applied, and work for a LCC. You can't have all the bells and whistles that mainline pilots get. Your passengers don't pay $10k for a business class ticket.

If you want more, then apply for mainline, or come over on the MOU. The latest internal rumour is that all future recruitment will be from within the Qantas group only. No externals.

And I wouldn't be giving up anything for Qantas club access. It's not worth it.
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Old 1st Jan 2020, 22:32
  #580 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Jetstar copped another serve in the press today, this time over Uluru boarding on New Year’s eve. They are now well on the way to a reputation as the Southern Hemisphere answer to Ryanair.
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