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Uncertain times for Darwin based Cobham Crew

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Uncertain times for Darwin based Cobham Crew

Old 19th Nov 2018, 09:15
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For the record, Cobham 717 mins are 2000TT with 500 multi PIC.
Sounds like the HR department might want to have a look at their calender and figure out it's not 1998 anymore.
Do you really think the HR clerks make these numbers up without instruction from the Head of Flight Ops? Their OM probably has something to say about it as would QF since it is their trainset. Do you think that it is possible that people with less than that sort of experience struggle with the B717?

You will find that Aussies from the sandpit and Asia are applying to get back homeÖ.thatís not even counting on the foreigners willing to move to oz.
The impression I get is that the number of the former is small and of the latter very small. There is no huge pool of foreign labour ready to bang on the door of Australian aviation to be let in.
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Old 19th Nov 2018, 09:38
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I'll second that last remark.
There's simply no one "out there to go and sweep up with a 457 Visa"... if you think otherwise you're kidding yourself and well out of touch.
Heck, EK; QR; TK; ET (etc) have been sucking the pool dry for the last 8 -10 years and continue to, some with good commuting terms and raised financial rewards. SAS; Lufthansa Group; DHL; FedEx and many more huge airlines not previously in the market searching for crew are now hunting down pilots and paying extensions for deferred retirement. All this without mentioning any of the legacy and LCC airlines to Australia's north, who are ALL advertising!
Mates still in the sand dunes have/are still assessing Australian jobs but balking at them due to the huge living expenses there now as well as there being no increased T's & C's pretty much since they left! Much more financially rewarding on one of the numerous commuting contracts, if you want to look after your family and retire early.
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Old 19th Nov 2018, 10:52
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Icarus,

Jetstar puts 200 hour kids in an A320 and most countries on earth will put a fresh CPL in a transport jet. The problem is Australian airlines aren't geared up to train people that way.

Setting hour requirements is a good filter to stop being inundated with CV's. The problem is when the CV's stop coming many operators seem reluctant to drop hour requirements.

Whilst I disagree with all new hires being fresh CPL's, dropping a multi required from 500 to 150 and total time from 2000 to 1200 is going to make planes fall from the sky.
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Old 19th Nov 2018, 13:56
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Originally Posted by pilotchute
dropping a multi required from 500 to 150 and total time from 2000 to 1200 is going to make planes fall from the sky.
That's why they won't do it. Sorry, couldn't help meself!

Last edited by Capn Bloggs; 19th Nov 2018 at 13:56. Reason: Proofreading.
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Old 19th Nov 2018, 23:42
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I would imagine that with the coveted recruitment policies used by QF and VA there would be more than enough suitable candidates for Cobham to pick from
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Old 20th Nov 2018, 02:38
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Itís nice to know that you work hard to get into this career, set yourself up on a reasonable income in a place you want to live, bring up a family and then have your home based closed down as if as easy for the company as moving a pawn around a chess board.

Its likely that in the future, the only people who are going to be interested in this career are going to be selfie loving instagramming females who woke up one day and decided they wanted to fly, only to give it up a few years later when the Ďlikesí start to dwindle and they are bored with the crappy lifestyle that an airline career offers.

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Old 20th Nov 2018, 02:52
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Originally Posted by Chocks Away View Post
I'll second that last remark.Mates still in the sand dunes have/are still assessing Australian jobs but balking at them due to the huge living expenses there now as well as there being no increased T's & C's pretty much since they left! Much more financially rewarding on one of the numerous commuting contracts, if you want to look after your family and retire early.
As a Melbourne based First Officer on the A320 circa 2000 I was being paid 140 K not including Superannuation. So wage growth has been modest. Now, with the industry wide collusion on pilot wages ( we are after all a barrel of oil type commodity in the view of management ) and despite a probable structural shortage, my package in Hong Kong is now on offer at about half. And there will be young Australian takers !

Too many cheap-charlies !


Originally Posted by pilotchute View Post
Icarus,Jetstar puts 200 hour kids in an A320 and most countries on earth will put a fresh CPL in a transport jet. The problem is Australian airlines aren't geared up to train people that way.
The recommendation for an MPL program was that training pilots were to be trained to some sort of ab initio jet training level. They are not. And this is just another industry cost-cutting short cut. From what I've seen, these 200 hr pilots are a considerable liability for a significant period of time. Their training needs to be increased significantly.
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Old 20th Nov 2018, 03:35
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Jetstar puts 200 hour kids in an A320 and most countries on earth will put a fresh CPL in a transport jet. The problem is Australian airlines aren't geared up to train people that way
Which is exactly my point that you have reiterated for me. That would be why they specify 2000 total time and 500 multi.

Now, with the industry wide collusion on pilot wages
Indeed, with two main GROUPS based under QF and VA there is little chance of one carrier breaking ranks and upping the salary. Even Cobham as an independent is still under the spell of QF. It is the same lack of competition we see in other areas in Australia, supermarket chains, petrol stations. Eventually though market forces will prevail.
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Old 20th Nov 2018, 03:48
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As a Melbourne based First Officer on the A320 circa 2000 I was being paid 140 K not including Superannuation. So wage growth has been modest.
Iíd be interested to know how many hours you were flying to achieve that, but if you adjust that figure for inflation, there arenít many narrow body F/Os earning that kind of money in Aus these days unless youíre getting absolutely flogged (and probably flying for Qantas).

I reckon youll find that that wage growth hasnít been modest as you say, itís either been stagnant (if youíre lucky), or gone waaaay backwards.

Thats not to mention that the rate of inflation really doesnít take into account big ticket items such as housing, it which case itís gone even further backwards.

Just ask what Network are trying to pay their A320 F/Os these days. Hint; itís far, far less than you were on in 2000!
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Old 20th Nov 2018, 05:00
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...my package in Hong Kong is now on offer at about half.
- Gnadenburg, seriously?
Is that the Cathay stunt they recently pulled? I know there's huge disharmony and fatigue in the Fragrant Harbour but didn't realise it was such a slash of T's & C's.
Dragon Air contact is more solid than it's parent and there's other better ones around but crickey, what ignorance from management at such a time.
That's exactly why Skidmark (Skymark); Cebu Pacific; Brunei; Vietnam and soooooo many more can't get crew.

Respect for the workers at the coal-face who put the food on their managerial tables is long overdue, in this industry! The JAL CEO understood this!
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Old 20th Nov 2018, 06:08
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Originally Posted by pilotchute View Post
I am amazed they get any applications with mins of 2000TT and 1000 hours multi engine of which at least must be 500 hours multi pic if you have no multi crew time.

Not paid during training? You must be joking.
Yet Southwest requests 1000 hours of Turbine PIC...... and they get it. For an F.O. position. Even they pay during training, and their pay rates are the equivalent of Qantas A380, on a 737. The Legacy carriers are higher. Is it a miracle ? Or a natural reaction to industry changes and the new pilot economy.

(Not having a go at you Pilotchute. I know you’re just shining a light on the ridiculously low rates in ‘Australasia’. There’s far more ‘Asia’ than ‘Australia’ in the whole equation - if you ignore the over payed Irish midget running the show.)
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Old 20th Nov 2018, 06:30
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Wow. Gee I feel for anyone being displaced. (Been there myself). Family also suffers too which many never see or hear about on this forum. Hope all are able to find suitable solution. In the fast moving world there are many stressors without this type of situation. Please all be mindful to reach out to someone if youíre finding it rough. NO job (even the space shuttle) is worth giving in to the black dog.

Perhaps once upon a time, a job with long-standing contract company such as NJS/Cobham would have been a safe bet. Things have changed and Cobham is exactly that - a contractor.

A good seniority number in the major carriers are probably only the safer bet in terms of location.

Good of luck to all.
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Old 20th Nov 2018, 06:55
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JPJP,

Southwest and the legacies (SWA pay is almost identical to American Airlines) have no trouble finding candidates with 1000 hours turbine PIC because there are thousands of regional jet captains on less money per hour than a first year SWA FO.
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Old 20th Nov 2018, 08:59
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Originally Posted by pilotchute View Post
JPJP,

Southwest and the legacies (SWA pay is almost identical to American Airlines) have no trouble finding candidates with 1000 hours turbine PIC because there are thousands of regional jet captains on less money per hour than a first year SWA FO.
All true. I’m intimately familiar with former. American is the lowest when profit sharing is taken into account. It’s a massively complex web. Even when one ignores Fedex and UPS.

The pool of competitive pilots is drying up at a rate that’s become a concern for the big 4+2 Airlines. Pilot recruiters are actively battling to secure the best candidates for their company. As always, a history of leadership positions is desired - Check Airmen/Chief Pilot or Stan Eval, EP, IP for Military pilots.

What frustrates me for my friends at Qantas is the apparent lack of (productive) militancy in the upcoming negotiations. The new AIPA Chairmen is a 73 guy. Perhaps he should have a chat with John Weeks and give the little Irish man running ‘The Group’ a fright. He’d then be the second Irish CEO that wished he’d never heard his name this year,

https://www.bizjournals.com/chicago/...tough-guy.html

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/...ndon-1.3270591
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Old 20th Nov 2018, 11:55
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What frustrates me for my friends at Qantas is the apparent lack of (productive) militancy in the upcoming negotiations. The new AIPA Chairmen is a 73 guy. Perhaps he should have a chat with John Weeks and give the little Irish man running ‘The Group’ a fright. He’d then be the second Irish CEO that wished he’d never heard his name this year,
Organised labour representative associations are simply well worn donkey tracks to flight operations. Or is that simply the experience of Australian pilots?
The Linked In profile update looked good though.

Perhaps once upon a time, a job with long-standing contract company such as NJS/Cobham would have been a safe bet. Things have changed and Cobham is exactly that - a contractor.
Precisely.
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Old 20th Nov 2018, 13:36
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Originally Posted by Rated De View Post
Organised labour representative associations are simply well worn donkey tracks to flight operations. Or is that simply the experience of Australian pilots?
If you are referring to AIPA and QF, which I assume you are, that is simply incorrect! With one particular exception, the stats donít support your assertion.
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Old 20th Nov 2018, 13:55
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Icarus,

As you seem to think 2000 hours and 500 multi is required for the honour to sit in the RHS of a 717, please tell me what is required for say an A380?

2000 jet PIC?

Whilst I'm not a fan of Fresh CPLs in an A320, I think 1000 hours total and 100 multi or a bit of single engine turbine is sufficient.
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Old 20th Nov 2018, 17:29
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Originally Posted by pilotchute View Post
Icarus,

As you seem to think 2000 hours and 500 multi is required for the honour to sit in the RHS of a 717, please tell me what is required for say an A380?

2000 jet PIC?

Whilst I'm not a fan of Fresh CPLs in an A320, I think 1000 hours total and 100 multi or a bit of single engine turbine is sufficient.
Don't know QF A380 experience required.
But over here BA DEP can join straight on to the A380 as F/O (the S/O option not used as all F/O must be qualified for two pilot ops. flown on several A380 routes. ie. Lhr-Chicago, Lhr-Boston)
Min requirements 2000 hr total time with 1000 hrs on jets greater than 25tonnes MTOM.
Also allows Zero Flight Time Conversion, with no Base training requirement.
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Old 23rd Nov 2018, 01:26
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Once Qantas see that 60 - 100 pax are more suited to a B717/F100 sized aircraft and the NT Gov stops subsidising seats it looks like Alliance will be ready to take over the DRW - ASP route:

F100/70 DIRECT ENTRY CAPTAINS & F100/70 FIRST OFFICERS

Alliance Airlines

Expressions of Interest (ďEOIĒ) Ė Darwin Base
Due to commercial growth in Northern Australia operations, we are currently seeking EOIís for the following positions in our Darwin base:
  • F100/70 Direct Entry Captains
  • F100/70 First Officers

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Old 23rd Nov 2018, 01:50
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Interesting..... However Alliance are already doing the DRW-ASP (and then ADL) for Virgin. Maybe weíll see 2 Alliance Fokkers chasing each other on the route 1 with a QF callsign and 1 a VA callsign.........
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