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Uncertain times for Darwin based Cobham Crew

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Uncertain times for Darwin based Cobham Crew

Old 13th Nov 2018, 11:06
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Uncertain times for Darwin based Cobham Crew

QF media release today, all Qjet Flights ex DRW going to Mainline and JQ!
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Old 13th Nov 2018, 11:20
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Unfortuante for sure, though I'm sure few would consider it a great surprise.
Sincerely hope the guys/gals will have thier EBA provisions honored in accordance with the relevant provisions.
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Old 13th Nov 2018, 11:58
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$959 return Cairns to the Alice.

Thatís the cheapest I can find on the QF site.

There was certainly no effort here in even slightly attempting to stimulate the market by lowering fares.
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Old 13th Nov 2018, 16:20
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Isnít flying returning to the mothership a good thing for mainline jobs as opposed to C scale contractor jobs?
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Old 13th Nov 2018, 20:55
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There are no winners here Havick. The 717s will be redistributed to other bases, no extra flying to the mothership. Just employees and their families that will be uprooted and sent away after many many years of service. Some in Darwin have been there for 20+ years, since before there even was a domestic Qantas.
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Old 13th Nov 2018, 23:14
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My sympathies to the crew. Nothing worse (aside from the airline going bust) than a base closure or forced transfer.

Especially this time of year.

Hopefully Airnorth will employ a few onto the Ejet that want to stay. Letís also hope that the staff travel arrangement improves a little so some can commute.

I believe the crew have access now to STO? Whatís the onload priority like?
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Old 14th Nov 2018, 02:14
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Jumped off a jet in Cairns the other day and I thought I was in Asia, in town and at the airport.

Thought to myself, why canít the same thing be going on in the NT, particularly Darwin.

Remember when I was a teenager, Crocodile Dundee era when top end tourism was advertised heavily. Doesnít seem to be much of it these days, not sure why - NT guvument has certainly dropped the ball on tourism.

Being a Darwin resident who travels monthly in and out of the place, I can only say that the flight availablies to get in and out are absolutely atrocious.

This decision by Qantas is no surprise and itís probably compounded by Cobhamís crewing issues.
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Old 14th Nov 2018, 02:48
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Is Brol, still Darwin based with Cobham on the B717.

The NT tourist/government donít seem doing much to promote tourism in the Top End.



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Old 14th Nov 2018, 09:06
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Hang on a minute, so if the flights are “half empty” why would they be replaced with JQ A320 or QF B737s?

Something not right with the story. Is it the despatch reliability that has been the last straw?

Is it Cobham trying to crew on he smell of an oily rag as they are known to do?

?
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Old 14th Nov 2018, 19:41
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Dispatch reliability of the of 717? That's sad, especially when you consider QFs steadfast reliance on "on demand" maintenance and insufficient engineers in most ports. It's not the 717, it's the way QF choose to run them.

I imagine the half full factor will be countered by a reduction in frequency.
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Old 14th Nov 2018, 21:41
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Originally Posted by gordonfvckingramsay View Post
Dispatch reliability of the of 717? That's sad, especially when you consider QFs steadfast reliance on "on demand" maintenance and insufficient engineers in most ports. It's not the 717, it's the way QF choose to run them.

I imagine the half full factor will be countered by a reduction in frequency.
Additionally., its QF that determine staff numbers not COBHAM.

From a seperate thread, Haviick made the following comment. "It's not unrealistic at all to be earning 150k USD + at envoy within 2 years of starting."

Mate on the hours you quoted, (140 I think it was) your a "F" scale oin comparrison. and I am assuming you are quotong F/O figures?

Last edited by RENURPP; 15th Nov 2018 at 02:43.
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Old 15th Nov 2018, 04:20
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Additionally., its QF that determine staff numbers not COBHAM.
But actually meeting those pilot numbers falls back to the contractor, begs the question: Are they??
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Old 15th Nov 2018, 04:52
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The industry response to cost base increases was to out source and utilise contractors.
Predicated on unlimited supply significant savings were achieved. At the apex of this contractor model is Ryan Air.
As the industry matures and supply issues persist eventually pilots will be seen as an asset to the employer, not simply a cost.

With this announcement at the stroke of a pen, some Coward (pun intended) 'outsources' another cost to a contractor; moving states.

As the Colgan air accident uncovered, 'flags of convenience' for airlines with respect to contractors and location in order to minimise liability are slowly becoming a thing of a more adversarial time.
For the people affected, sadly this is the contract world, just as big corporates like it.
The positive is that demographic pressure will eventually be the death knell for shoddy practices like this, where QF own the aircraft and move them back to Sydney, but the people are left to fend for themselves.
Contractor work forces are a bit like mercenaries, will do the fighting but ultimately nothing is owed them.
Plenty of alternatives these days
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Old 15th Nov 2018, 05:47
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If QF only knew what peril their 717 operation was in with regard to finding suitable pilots. One of the best EBA's going and still a HUGE percentage of their pilots have their sights set on other alternatives. Great EBA, amazingly fun and satisfying aircraft to fly and generally great people to fly with, but it's the uncertainty that makes many want to lock down a better long term life for their families.
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Old 15th Nov 2018, 09:17
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Companies will sooner lower the bar than increase conditions, so don't hold your breath waiting. They don't care one iota if you, a 20,000 hour Check Captain leaves, they will just replace you with an 18 year old on a cadet course.
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Old 15th Nov 2018, 09:36
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Originally Posted by Berealgetreal View Post
Companies will sooner lower the bar than increase conditions, so don't hold your breath waiting. They don't care one iota if you, a 20,000 hour Check Captain leaves, they will just replace you with an 18 year old on a cadet course.
Precisely, until there are insufficient 18 year old cadets.

For reference one need merely look at the US industry approach to demographic persistent shortages.
Airlines may well first try the 'self funded' cadet. How many of these will incur $150,000+ debt for the return on offer?
The retirement profile of all airlines will simply outstrip the IR approaches that have been the stalwarts of the past. They cannot continue to crew aircraft into the next decade with the type of 'employment relationships' they have previously enjoyed. Behind their rhetoric is a realisation that the balance has shifted.
Eventually capitulating, they will have to absorb the sunk cost themselves and pay for the training. After all there isn't much operating revenue with no aircraft operating...

At present entities like Cobham exist because there was ample supply. There is 'supply' in the market it is simply that airlines aren't willing to pay the market rate. Understandably, they prefer a well worn Australian approach; import labour from anywhere to control labour cost. Exhausting this supply, terms and conditions will increase to attract supply.
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Old 16th Nov 2018, 05:26
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Rated De, there will never be a shortage of 18 year olds willing to do the job. In the US the situation changed after Colgan.
i think if Colgan happened here it would be business as usual after the Captain had been tarred and feathered to the point that the ratings on Today Tonight begin to decline.
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Old 16th Nov 2018, 05:28
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Might push a few of the Cobham DRW guys and gals to have a roll of the Chinese dice. Others may go back to more regional jobs to stay in DRW rather than end up in SYD or MEL doing max hours and 12 hour days. Not that I know what the 717 does on the east coast!
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Old 16th Nov 2018, 06:54
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Originally Posted by Berealgetreal View Post
Rated De, there will never be a shortage of 18 year olds willing to do the job. In the US the situation changed after Colgan.
i think if Colgan happened here it would be business as usual after the Captain had been tarred and feathered to the point that the ratings on Today Tonight begin to decline.
Whilst the context you refer to has been the case worldwide for 30 years there is one small caveat to apply: Ceteris Parabus

Airline recruitment models and indeed response have been predicated on all other factors remaining constant.
As such, 18 year old cadets would ordinarily fill the gap.

What is at play is isnot a constant and therefore the model is ill equipped to deal with the new paradigm. Candidly you only need look at ABS data in Australia, or the ONS in the UK to tell the story; retirement rates will outstrip replacement labour in all western economies with little lag difference inside the next decade. For an industry with a narrow skill set availability and a long lead time it is rather ominous.

That is the retirement rates are beyond anything ever encountered and are largely attributable to the post war generation who are now increasingly retiring.

It is small consolation to those affected, but in Europe pilots from failed airlines are readily and rapidly absorbed by other carriers with little dislocation.
The Australian context is a little different given the dominance of the incumbents, however Asia is a short distance away.
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Old 16th Nov 2018, 23:47
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Bereal there are very few 717 operators in China and all bar a very small number of Asian carriers are taking pilots with less than 500 hours command on 73 or 320 that may well change over coming years but is the sad reality at present
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