QANTAS long haul EBA
One can only imagine the gamesmanship that is involved....But,
Are pilots prepared to vote no this time under the same environment of subtle threats from say...the chief pilot?
Are pilots prepared to vote no even when various other entities supposedly have offered to make Project Sunrise fly?
I have my personal opinions, and I’ll reiterate what I’ve said before that negotiation is not personal. Pilots must be prepared to fight for the conditions they deserve. It is a game in many ways...with serious consequences. Individual pilots need to lift their industrial game to help AIPA achieve what is deserved. Unfortunately, history suggests as individuals, pilots are industrially dumb, blinded by everyday selfishness that is too hard to hide away. 787 minus 10% only emphasises this reality. Pilots should be ashamed that we have enabled such an offer...and equally outraged that the company feels tenacious enough to approach with such a starting point.
Are pilots prepared to vote no this time under the same environment of subtle threats from say...the chief pilot?
Are pilots prepared to vote no even when various other entities supposedly have offered to make Project Sunrise fly?
I have my personal opinions, and I’ll reiterate what I’ve said before that negotiation is not personal. Pilots must be prepared to fight for the conditions they deserve. It is a game in many ways...with serious consequences. Individual pilots need to lift their industrial game to help AIPA achieve what is deserved. Unfortunately, history suggests as individuals, pilots are industrially dumb, blinded by everyday selfishness that is too hard to hide away. 787 minus 10% only emphasises this reality. Pilots should be ashamed that we have enabled such an offer...and equally outraged that the company feels tenacious enough to approach with such a starting point.
The Company's Position for bargaining for the Project Sunrise (makes me vomit just typing that) aircraft is 787 MINUS 10% on the same terms and conditions
Thread Starter
There is an alternative claim from a non AIPA group of pilots for all ops over 20 hours to be paid credited hours plus 25% . We won’t all roll over.
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It appears that a few well placed 'opinion carriers', (think a stream lead type individual) and the herd is easy to panic.
The 'reliability' of your association is extremely pleasing to IR. Volunteer office holders (all employed by the company) budget transparency make for pleasing optics from an IR perspective. Nothing like knowing your enemy!
However from a regulatory point of view a TOD over 20 hours is not yet legal. Whilst Little Napoleon likes giving tips on Ultra Long Haul travel and even donates money to a university sector rampant with commercialism 'for a study into LH flying' that doesn't include the employees is ominous. Under Annex 6 ICAO permits contracting states flexibility with respect to local deviation of flight and duty limits, but limits at this point, are limits.
Little Napoleon's lobbying of a captured and impotent regulator will involve all aspect of rampant commercialism, yet a commissioned study (paid for by the benefactor) is not robust.
Before this 'break away group' considers the money, it may well be prudent to commission and consider the impact of ultra long haul flying on people's health. Particularly those poor souls having to do it repeatedly, given that there is zero science supporting the narrative that QF wish to establish.
A puff piece in the AFR with Little Napoleon talking of teddy bear PJs and eating light as well as 'adjusting one's bed time a few days before' may be fine for passengers, but for crew on minimum rest in some cheap dingy hotel an extra 25% may not be compensation for adverse health impacts.
After all limits are targets. Where the TOD limit is insufficient for 'commercial purpose' lobby the regulator for a bigger limit.
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dragon man
I'm sure the company is taking the offer from the breaking away group alternative to AIPA very seriously as currently on the A380, B744 and A330 crew are paid credited hours plus 250% for all ops over 20 hours (in some cases plus 300%) and on the B787 credited hours plus 200% for all ops over 20 hours. The thinking in the breaking away group is of genius level. Try reading the contract before posting what seems like a great idea.
I'm sure the company is taking the offer from the breaking away group alternative to AIPA very seriously as currently on the A380, B744 and A330 crew are paid credited hours plus 250% for all ops over 20 hours (in some cases plus 300%) and on the B787 credited hours plus 200% for all ops over 20 hours. The thinking in the breaking away group is of genius level. Try reading the contract before posting what seems like a great idea.
Thread Starter
Read the post. 25 % on the credited hours . A 42 hour credited trip would get 10.5 hours additional pay your great 787 award would get you 5 hours.
currently on the A380, B744 and A330 crew are paid credited hours plus 250% for all ops over 20 hours (in some cases plus 300%)
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Most certainly there is a cross-section of New Personalities (on the Qantas side of the table) dealing with this next Long Haul EA.
Many (it has been asserted) apparently may want to make a name for themselves to streamline future corporate career prospects.
However, I suspect that the claim for 10% discount is a mischievous or ambient statement by the alleged perpetrator as divulging any such information at this time would easily have one removed from the company E.A team. Confidentiality is a two-way component in such negotiations.
Notably in other areas, the QPA meanwhile, has apparently had a very large influx of member applications due to the alleged lack of Transparency and Information over the B-747 RIN from that Qantas lead source!
Nonetheless Qantas Long Haul Pilots must realise that they are in a superlative bargaining position regarding the Long Haul E.A. provided that they (unilaterally) hold the line and bargain hard through their representatives. Whether that is AIPA or QPA (who have apparently lodged a log of claims with Qantas as indicated by dragon man) who encapsulate this position is yet to be seen.
Certainly interesting times ahead!
Many (it has been asserted) apparently may want to make a name for themselves to streamline future corporate career prospects.
However, I suspect that the claim for 10% discount is a mischievous or ambient statement by the alleged perpetrator as divulging any such information at this time would easily have one removed from the company E.A team. Confidentiality is a two-way component in such negotiations.
Notably in other areas, the QPA meanwhile, has apparently had a very large influx of member applications due to the alleged lack of Transparency and Information over the B-747 RIN from that Qantas lead source!
Nonetheless Qantas Long Haul Pilots must realise that they are in a superlative bargaining position regarding the Long Haul E.A. provided that they (unilaterally) hold the line and bargain hard through their representatives. Whether that is AIPA or QPA (who have apparently lodged a log of claims with Qantas as indicated by dragon man) who encapsulate this position is yet to be seen.
Certainly interesting times ahead!
Yes the 747 Rin is special.
FFS
FFS
QPA?
(Can anyone fill me in?)
WTF?
(Can anyone fill me in?)
WTF?
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QPA?
Is this like QAnon? A bunch of nutjob conspiracy theorists who believe they have much more influence than they actually do?
Is this like QAnon? A bunch of nutjob conspiracy theorists who believe they have much more influence than they actually do?
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So, let me get this straight. There are a bunch of pilots in Qantas who have started a union called the Qantas Pilots Assosiation. They presumably are 747 and A380 captain unhappy with the 787 award and don’t want to be redeployed to it, (I’m just spitballing here) and the lack of information from AIPA about a RIN that may or may not happen because of A380 wing problems. So they have decided to go to Qantas during an EA negotiation and undercut the 787 award? I’m completely confused.
Thread Starter
So, let me get this straight. There are a bunch of pilots in Qantas who have started a union called the Qantas Pilots Assosiation. They presumably are 747 and A380 captain unhappy with the 787 award and don’t want to be redeployed to it, (I’m just spitballing here) and the lack of information from AIPA about a RIN that may or may not happen because of A380 wing problems. So they have decided to go to Qantas during an EA negotiation and undercut the 787 award? I’m completely confused.
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Well then, what is your angle? Why would the company talk to you? We all know the traditional longhaul award is dead. What are you offering if it’s not undercutting?