Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

QANTAS long haul EBA

Old 5th Dec 2018, 03:10
  #121 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 324
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 1 Post
One can only imagine the gamesmanship that is involved....But,

Are pilots prepared to vote no this time under the same environment of subtle threats from say...the chief pilot?

Are pilots prepared to vote no even when various other entities supposedly have offered to make Project Sunrise fly?

I have my personal opinions, and I’ll reiterate what I’ve said before that negotiation is not personal. Pilots must be prepared to fight for the conditions they deserve. It is a game in many ways...with serious consequences. Individual pilots need to lift their industrial game to help AIPA achieve what is deserved. Unfortunately, history suggests as individuals, pilots are industrially dumb, blinded by everyday selfishness that is too hard to hide away. 787 minus 10% only emphasises this reality. Pilots should be ashamed that we have enabled such an offer...and equally outraged that the company feels tenacious enough to approach with such a starting point.
crosscutter is offline  
Old 5th Dec 2018, 03:57
  #122 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Lagrangian point 2
Posts: 282
Received 33 Likes on 7 Posts
The Company's Position for bargaining for the Project Sunrise (makes me vomit just typing that) aircraft is 787 MINUS 10% on the same terms and conditions
Probably because Fleet pay would be the ultimate aim, and even at that the cost per ASK improvements would be mouth watering for them. The initial ‘very crap’ offer is used to make the ultimate ‘just crap’ offer, more palatable.
ExtraShot is offline  
Old 5th Dec 2018, 06:16
  #123 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: sydney
Posts: 1,615
Received 599 Likes on 169 Posts
There is an alternative claim from a non AIPA group of pilots for all ops over 20 hours to be paid credited hours plus 25% . We won’t all roll over.
dragon man is offline  
Old 5th Dec 2018, 06:30
  #124 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,674
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by dragon man
There is an alternative claim from a non AIPA group of pilots for all ops over 20 hours to be paid credited hours plus 25% . We won’t all roll over.
From a purely strategic point of view a group of pilots breaking away is good strategy.
It appears that a few well placed 'opinion carriers', (think a stream lead type individual) and the herd is easy to panic.
The 'reliability' of your association is extremely pleasing to IR. Volunteer office holders (all employed by the company) budget transparency make for pleasing optics from an IR perspective. Nothing like knowing your enemy!

However from a regulatory point of view a TOD over 20 hours is not yet legal. Whilst Little Napoleon likes giving tips on Ultra Long Haul travel and even donates money to a university sector rampant with commercialism 'for a study into LH flying' that doesn't include the employees is ominous. Under Annex 6 ICAO permits contracting states flexibility with respect to local deviation of flight and duty limits, but limits at this point, are limits.
Little Napoleon's lobbying of a captured and impotent regulator will involve all aspect of rampant commercialism, yet a commissioned study (paid for by the benefactor) is not robust.

Before this 'break away group' considers the money, it may well be prudent to commission and consider the impact of ultra long haul flying on people's health. Particularly those poor souls having to do it repeatedly, given that there is zero science supporting the narrative that QF wish to establish.
A puff piece in the AFR with Little Napoleon talking of teddy bear PJs and eating light as well as 'adjusting one's bed time a few days before' may be fine for passengers, but for crew on minimum rest in some cheap dingy hotel an extra 25% may not be compensation for adverse health impacts.

After all limits are targets. Where the TOD limit is insufficient for 'commercial purpose' lobby the regulator for a bigger limit.
Rated De is offline  
Old 5th Dec 2018, 06:46
  #125 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
dragon man

I'm sure the company is taking the offer from the breaking away group alternative to AIPA very seriously as currently on the A380, B744 and A330 crew are paid credited hours plus 250% for all ops over 20 hours (in some cases plus 300%) and on the B787 credited hours plus 200% for all ops over 20 hours. The thinking in the breaking away group is of genius level. Try reading the contract before posting what seems like a great idea.
Just Relaxin is offline  
Old 5th Dec 2018, 06:57
  #126 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: sydney
Posts: 1,615
Received 599 Likes on 169 Posts
Read the post. 25 % on the credited hours . A 42 hour credited trip would get 10.5 hours additional pay your great 787 award would get you 5 hours.
dragon man is offline  
Old 5th Dec 2018, 07:49
  #127 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Lake Como
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
our esteemed ex AIPA President, who is now part of the Company negotiating "team"
What?
Surely that is not true!!!
Lezzeno is offline  
Old 5th Dec 2018, 08:27
  #128 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: FNQ ... It's Permanent!
Posts: 4,282
Received 162 Likes on 83 Posts
currently on the A380, B744 and A330 crew are paid credited hours plus 250% for all ops over 20 hours (in some cases plus 300%)
The legal limit is 20 hours, so you get paid an incentive to exceed it?
Capt Fathom is offline  
Old 5th Dec 2018, 08:59
  #129 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: South Sydney Australia
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Most certainly there is a cross-section of New Personalities (on the Qantas side of the table) dealing with this next Long Haul EA.

Many (it has been asserted) apparently may want to make a name for themselves to streamline future corporate career prospects.

However, I suspect that the claim for 10% discount is a mischievous or ambient statement by the alleged perpetrator as divulging any such information at this time would easily have one removed from the company E.A team. Confidentiality is a two-way component in such negotiations.

Notably in other areas, the QPA meanwhile, has apparently had a very large influx of member applications due to the alleged lack of Transparency and Information over the B-747 RIN from that Qantas lead source!

Nonetheless Qantas Long Haul Pilots must realise that they are in a superlative bargaining position regarding the Long Haul E.A. provided that they (unilaterally) hold the line and bargain hard through their representatives. Whether that is AIPA or QPA (who have apparently lodged a log of claims with Qantas as indicated by dragon man) who encapsulate this position is yet to be seen.

Certainly interesting times ahead!
Capt Colonial is offline  
Old 5th Dec 2018, 09:09
  #130 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: sincity
Posts: 1,192
Received 27 Likes on 15 Posts
Yes the 747 Rin is special.

FFS
maggot is online now  
Old 5th Dec 2018, 11:22
  #131 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts

Originally Posted by maggot
Yes the 747 Rin is special.

FFS
CSTGuy is offline  
Old 5th Dec 2018, 11:34
  #132 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Not at work
Posts: 1,569
Received 59 Likes on 30 Posts
QPA?

(Can anyone fill me in?)

WTF?
Transition Layer is offline  
Old 5th Dec 2018, 12:16
  #133 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 379
Likes: 0
Received 17 Likes on 5 Posts
Queensland Panjandrum Association
theheadmaster is offline  
Old 5th Dec 2018, 19:50
  #134 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: South Sydney Australia
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Smile

Originally Posted by theheadmaster
Queensland Panjandrum Association
I am informed the Largest base of members is in Sydney and has been for quite some time!
Capt Colonial is offline  
Old 5th Dec 2018, 21:34
  #135 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 642
Received 19 Likes on 5 Posts
QPA?

Is this like QAnon? A bunch of nutjob conspiracy theorists who believe they have much more influence than they actually do?
ruprecht is offline  
Old 5th Dec 2018, 21:44
  #136 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Lake Como
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
QPA?

Is this like QAnon? A bunch of nutjob conspiracy theorists who believe they have much more influence than they actually do?
Will the QPA President be leading the company negotiating team at the EA after this one or is it only former AIPA Presidents that do that?
Lezzeno is offline  
Old 5th Dec 2018, 21:55
  #137 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Wellington
Posts: 258
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Who is QPA President? GD? or PM?
Street garbage is offline  
Old 6th Dec 2018, 00:29
  #138 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Unfortunately not the Orient
Posts: 385
Likes: 0
Received 83 Likes on 31 Posts
So, let me get this straight. There are a bunch of pilots in Qantas who have started a union called the Qantas Pilots Assosiation. They presumably are 747 and A380 captain unhappy with the 787 award and don’t want to be redeployed to it, (I’m just spitballing here) and the lack of information from AIPA about a RIN that may or may not happen because of A380 wing problems. So they have decided to go to Qantas during an EA negotiation and undercut the 787 award? I’m completely confused.
SandyPalms is offline  
Old 6th Dec 2018, 00:39
  #139 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: sydney
Posts: 1,615
Received 599 Likes on 169 Posts
Originally Posted by SandyPalms
So, let me get this straight. There are a bunch of pilots in Qantas who have started a union called the Qantas Pilots Assosiation. They presumably are 747 and A380 captain unhappy with the 787 award and don’t want to be redeployed to it, (I’m just spitballing here) and the lack of information from AIPA about a RIN that may or may not happen because of A380 wing problems. So they have decided to go to Qantas during an EA negotiation and undercut the 787 award? I’m completely confused.
Who said anything about under cutting the 787 award?
dragon man is offline  
Old 6th Dec 2018, 00:45
  #140 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Unfortunately not the Orient
Posts: 385
Likes: 0
Received 83 Likes on 31 Posts
Well then, what is your angle? Why would the company talk to you? We all know the traditional longhaul award is dead. What are you offering if it’s not undercutting?
SandyPalms is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.