Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

QF/Alliance in the news>>

Old 16th Jul 2018, 13:48
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NSW
Posts: 7
QF/Alliance in the news>>


Mt Isa to Brisvegas with a side trip to Longreach. I guess the punters could visit the QF Founders Museum while they wait...
TBM-Legend is offline  
Old 16th Jul 2018, 22:25
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 686
Originally Posted by TBM-Legend View Post

Mt Isa to Brisvegas with a side trip to Longreach. I guess the punters could visit the QF Founders Museum while they wait...
Another example of media taking the ravings of a passenger and presenting it as news, so she got delayed 2 hours, would she have preferred to just keep going and take the chance. I wonder who she’ll blame when her car breaks down.
AerialPerspective is offline  
Old 17th Jul 2018, 12:20
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Cloud cuckoo land
Posts: 102
I wonder whether the aeroplanes at Longreach were actually operated by QANTAS? Maybe, there's a small sticker by the door that says operated by ......../......../......../........ on behalf of QANTAS Airways.
maggotdriver is offline  
Old 17th Jul 2018, 12:22
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Cloud cuckoo land
Posts: 102
Oh, Hang on! That would be if they OWNED them, sorry it would just be a note in the text of their ticket. Upstanding!
maggotdriver is offline  
Old 17th Jul 2018, 15:50
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: 3rd rock from the sun
Posts: 1,744
Silliness of the article aside, as someone who is affected by these QF/Alliance flights, it really drives me mad when they charge the same ticket price for a shitty F100 or F70 that isn’t even operated by Qantas, and still crap on in the booking email about how you can expect the Qantas service onboard.

Why am I paying (quite a considerable amount) for Qantas service but receiving a substandard offering?

ACCC?

morno is offline  
Old 17th Jul 2018, 20:29
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: X
Posts: 61
Originally Posted by TBM-Legend View Post

Mt Isa to Brisvegas with a side trip to Longreach. I guess the punters could visit the QF Founders Museum while they wait...
Shouldn't that Fokker F100 also be in that museum?
XanaduX is offline  
Old 17th Jul 2018, 22:32
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 86
Shouldn't that Fokker F100 also be in that museum?
A museum probably, but not that one.
That one is for aircraft that are part of the history of a once truly iconic brand that many of us wish still retained at least some of that which made it an icon.
C441 is offline  
Old 18th Jul 2018, 12:10
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: BAO
Posts: 530
Hmmmm- ex the Register:
"Aircraft first registered in Australia: 5 February 2018. Serial number: 11468"
Has, 'it' really been here long enough to have QF historical 'Provenance' and relevance.............????

Agree- it has 'operated' for QF/or on behalf of them, in a sense................

Rgds
S28-BE
Section28- BE is offline  
Old 18th Jul 2018, 12:40
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 81
What shytes me is I work for one of these airlines and I have a personal interest in this flight for family reasons. According to flight radar 24 the rego was VH UQC the previous days it was operating as TT flights. WTF. I did a dummy booking for the 30th of July ISA-BNE with QANTAS $379 on an Alliance F100 (2 hrs 20 mins) Bugger that I’m sick of QANTAS out sourcing I’m going Virgin $365 Virgin (operated by Aliance with a F100) only 2 hrs 15 mns. The Virgin F100 is quicker than the QANTAS one. Sort your shit out
aussie1234 is offline  
Old 19th Jul 2018, 01:57
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Queensland
Posts: 94
As somebody interested in aviation but without any skin in the game it amuses me how nearly every airline in Australia, at various times, “loans” its call sign to a bloody old Alliance Fokker. I have no doubt that they are well built and still serviceable aircraft and if necessary I would travel in one but here’s the rub – these flights mostly operate regional services where there is little or no competition and hence steep airfares that the carriers claim are necessary to maintain the services. This argument is diminished somewhat by the use of such old aircraft, particularly on runs like BNE – ISA that used to have B737 services and where now the country’s two biggest airlines “compete” using Alliance Fokkers.There is an apparent business case for smaller jet airliners in Australia otherwise Alliance would not have so many out on lease. Notwithstanding Virgin has recently disposed of their E Jets, now that Airbus and Boeing effectively own Bombardier and Embraer, might we eventually see some new small jets operating here or will they still be carting us around in second and third hand Fokkers and B717s in 2030?
LostProperty is offline  
Old 19th Jul 2018, 03:47
  #11 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NSW
Posts: 7
Mr LOSTPROPERTY has obviously never run an airline. Markets like Mt Isa-Brisbane etc are very thin pax wise. In the past Isa was served as a stop en-route Brisbane-Darwin with B727's. The numbers don't work on a 180 seat jet like a B738 and the fare structure relates to the costs. Newish or new aircraft costs many multiples of an F100 for example. Who pays?
TBM-Legend is offline  
Old 19th Jul 2018, 04:16
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: 3rd rock from the sun
Posts: 1,744
Originally Posted by TBM-Legend View Post
In the past Isa was served as a stop en-route Brisbane-Darwin with B727's
What's that got to do with today's market?

I don't think they're asking for 737's out there again (they had 2 running most days there for several years during the mining boom), but if they're forced to pay ridiculous prices, at least stick them on a jet with a Kangaroo on the tail. Charging the same price and then sticking them on a 30 year old jet that is more cramped than a 717, with no entertainment, and as happened earlier this week - no toilets, is hardly acceptable.

They were hardly forthcoming in the pricing structure at the recent Senate Inquiry either. What have they got to hide?
morno is offline  
Old 19th Jul 2018, 09:39
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Gafa
Posts: 136
Originally Posted by morno View Post
What's that got to do with today's market?

I don't think they're asking for 737's out there again (they had 2 running most days there for several years during the mining boom), but if they're forced to pay ridiculous prices, at least stick them on a jet with a Kangaroo on the tail. Charging the same price and then sticking them on a 30 year old jet that is more cramped than a 717, with no entertainment, and as happened earlier this week - no toilets, is hardly acceptable.

They were hardly forthcoming in the pricing structure at the recent Senate Inquiry either. What have they got to hide?
And what do you propose if QF don’t have the airframes to service the route themselves? Let Alliance service SYD-MEL so they can send a 717 to ISA?
Maggie Island is offline  
Old 19th Jul 2018, 09:48
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Weltschmerz-By-The-Sea, Queensland, Australia
Posts: 898
They don’t have anything to hide: its in plain sight. If both Virgin and QF outsource to the same secondary carrier it starts to look and feel like monopoly behaviour- pricing, quality, equipment all the same, just like in the days of the two airline model (split monopoly) except without the champagne.

It seems to me that Mt Isa is a natural small jet market. It will always be a branch line market served by branch line type aircraft. In 15 years there will be posts on PPRuNe about E190s with u/s toilets.

My home town went from eight Viscount and Vanguard services to six times DC-9 and four 737s daily to six DHC-8 in just 25 years. I moved to a real city and stopped caring.
Australopithecus is offline  
Old 19th Jul 2018, 09:55
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Australia
Age: 54
Posts: 1,980
How old were the F28’s that Ansett Express used to run out to Mt Isa, in the early 90’s?
Stationair8 is offline  
Old 19th Jul 2018, 21:49
  #16 (permalink)  

Victim of a bored god

Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 1996
Location: Utopia
Posts: 6,664
"There is an apparent business case for smaller jet airliners in Australia otherwise Alliance would not have so many out on lease. Notwithstanding Virgin has recently disposed of their E Jets, now that Airbus and Boeing effectively own Bombardier and Embraer, might we eventually see some new small jets operating here or will they still be carting us around in second and third hand Fokkers and B717s in 2030?"
The difference is capital costs and probably lower operator overheads. The last of 283 Fokker 100's (113 remain in service) is now 21 years old and infinitely cheaper to acquire than a comparable new, modern technology aircraft.

Many of them are used in Australia by Alliance Airlines, Virgin Australia Regional Airlines and QantasLink in support of the mining industry, with low utilisation rates for an airline, around 1,200 hours per year.


100 hours per month average will never pay for a new aircraft.

The same philosophy applies to SAAB 340/2000, Fokker 50 and possibly DHC-8-100.
tail wheel is offline  
Old 20th Jul 2018, 01:51
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Horn Island
Posts: 0
or will they still be carting us around in second and third hand Fokkers and B717s in 2030?
a common theme on PPRuNe is the age of the 717.
first one into Service was 1999, the first “new generation 737 was 1996 I believe.

in short, the 717 is not a DC9 any more than (in fact less alike) the 737-800 is the same as a 737-1 or 200.
have a look up fron one day.
RENURPP is offline  
Old 20th Jul 2018, 04:08
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Queensland
Posts: 94
Originally Posted by tail wheel View Post
The difference is capital costs and probably lower operator overheads. The last of 283 Fokker 100's (113 remain in service) is now 21 years old and infinitely cheaper to acquire than a comparable new, modern technology aircraft.
100 hours per month average will never pay for a new aircraft.
The same philosophy applies to SAAB 340/2000, Fokker 50 and possibly DHC-8-100.
I hear you but with respect, Alliance's Fokkers might do 100 hours or even less per month because they have so many of them and they are not a full-on RPT airline. I'd be amazed if many of the QLink B717s (and Rex Saabs for that matter) ever get that low. There's nothing wrong with the B717s as aircraft go, it's just that it is getting hard to buy any more of them, they are not young and the only obvious replacement or supplement seems to be used EJets as suggested above.
LostProperty is offline  
Old 20th Jul 2018, 16:48
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 117
You can fly Rex ISA-BNE.

Only 7 stops: ISA-BQL-BEU-BVI-WNR-ULP-CTL-WTB-BNE, it only takes 9 hours 15 minutes, and it costs more than QF and VA, but you can do it.

Derfred is offline  
Old 25th Jul 2018, 09:25
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: The land Down Under
Posts: 18
Rather funny watching you all have a whinge.
Perth ops North and also to Adelaide with Fokker F100's and B717's. The thinner routes are ops by Rex
ps long live the DC-9 Neo.....
theozguru is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.