Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Tiger Industrial Action

Old 25th Jan 2019, 01:47
  #81 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by The Bullwinkle View Post


Are you “Hearing” those rumours or “Starting” those rumours?
On the flip side, why has the AFAP been virtually silent whilst VIPA has been working tirelessly in an effort to make the VA board realise that John Thomas is the obvious choice for CEO. Not a word from the Feds.
And not to detract from the importance of fighting for the Tiger guys and girls but surely this is a much bigger issue to fight for, and yet there’s not a single word coming from the AFAP voicing their members concerns.
Although of course, that could just be a rumour!
VIPA members choose to "keep talking"
VIPA president John Lyons told Workplace Express today that his members do not want to take protected action at this stage because the airline has "moved considerably" and they hope to complete negotiations soon, without the need for it.
"We fully endorse the action of the AFAP but our members have indicated that they would prefer to keep talking at the moment," Lyons said.

Well it seems to me that the rumours were in fact true. Perhaps you would like to explain Bullwinkle why you think it’s acceptable for VIPA to ride on the coat tails of the AFAP. Why weren’t VIPA continuing to apply industrial pressure on the company by conducting PIA? What do VIPA members think of their Union’s behaviour whilst AFAP members have done a remarkably good job in sticking together during this Industrial Action.

Perhaps it is time VIPA stop with the chest thumping and talks of working with the AFAP when all they do is undermine the AFAP in a shallow attempt to attract new members.

And finally, the old JT chestnut - an organisation would have to be so industrially naive and over think their own self sense of importance if they honestly think that they have any sway on convincing a board to appoint a CEO whom they sacked 6 months ago as COO. So maybe it’s just simply that the AFAP aren’t stupid.
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Old 26th Jan 2019, 03:44
  #82 (permalink)  
 
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Are Virgin 737 Pilots permitted to operate Tiger 737 flights? (On Tiger metal)
wheels_down is offline  
Old 26th Jan 2019, 07:19
  #83 (permalink)  
 
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Red face

Let me answer that in a round about way. VA will be doing line training for TT F/O’s on the 737. They are required to be inducted into VA, EP’s etc, sim, and then they can line train. On the same A/C, same routes, etc, etc. Does that answer your question?
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Old 26th Jan 2019, 10:00
  #84 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by porch monkey View Post
Let me answer that in a round about way. VA will be doing line training for TT F/O’s on the 737. They are required to be inducted into VA, EP’s etc, sim, and then they can line train. On the same A/C, same routes, etc, etc. Does that answer your question?
I was thinking more along the lines of these ‘contingency’ plans involving borrowing VA pilots to avoid cancellations and get the operation up and running to schedule.

They are sitting below 60% ontime performance and double digit cancellations. This has been going on well before any industrial action was ramped up.

The board needs m to be questioned on its logic in planning to operate a entire fleet 15-20 year old 737s to schedule on 30 min turns from 6am-12am.
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Old 26th Jan 2019, 14:19
  #85 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by wheels_down View Post
Are Virgin 737 Pilots permitted to operate Tiger 737 flights? (On Tiger metal)
No they're not. Even if they could Virgin are stretched on the 737 operating their own routes and don't have crew sitting idly.
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Old 26th Jan 2019, 20:17
  #86 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by wheels_down View Post

I was thinking more along the lines of these ‘contingency’ plans involving borrowing VA pilots to avoid cancellations and get the operation up and running to schedule.

They are sitting below 60% ontime performance and double digit cancellations. This has been going on well before any industrial action was ramped up.

The board needs m to be questioned on its logic in planning to operate a entire fleet 15-20 year old 737s to schedule on 30 min turns from 6am-12am.

Several years ago when the A320's where finally making money the management at the time walked into the training office and said we are switching to an all B737 fleet and we plan to have everyone swapped over in 18 months, from that day onwards Tigers has been a clusterTruck!!
The 30 min turnaround is doable but you have to have everything going for you from good efficient ground support, a strong reliable fleet and a happy crew, all of those 3 requirements are often strained!
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Old 27th Jan 2019, 06:29
  #87 (permalink)  
 
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Virgin Independent Pissweak Association

VIPA president John Lyons told Workplace Express today that his members do not want to take protected action at this stage because the airline has "moved considerably" and they hope to complete negotiations soon, without the need for it.
"We fully endorse the action of the AFAP but our members have indicated that they would prefer to keep talking at the moment," Lyons said.

Stupid and weak, you ‘fully endorse the action of the AFAP’ but your own actions directly betray and undermine the AFAP’s chances of getting a better deal for all tiger pilots. VIPA - Virgin Independent Pissweak Association.
Keith Myath is offline  
Old 27th Jan 2019, 07:25
  #88 (permalink)  
 
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It’s a known thing that a company will avail its self of a gentle response from unions by stringing them along with a “genuine” desire to negotiate. Months or even years later, nothing has been achieved.....these are called delaying tactics. By the time this “genuine” desire to negotiate has been dragged out for a sufficiently long period, the pilots are well and truly suffering negotiation fatigue and the unions are starting to look at the cost of maintaining the fight.....they both fold.

When a union knows this is going to be the case but still allows the company to run them around till they tire, it suggests one of a few possibilities: 1. The union is incompetent, 2. They trust the company in question, 3) They have been offered an inducement.

VIPA speaking this way concerns me, and I doubt the AFAP are any different.
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Old 27th Jan 2019, 08:25
  #89 (permalink)  
 
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Stupid and weak, you ‘fully endorse the action of the AFAP’ but your own actions directly betray and undermine the AFAP’s chances of getting a better deal for all tiger pilots. VIPA - Virgin Independent Pissweak Association.
If you’d seen the pile of dog turd EBA that the AFAP recommended back in 2006, you’d understand why VIPA came into existence.
The Feds were so, as you put it, Pissweak, that pilots left the AFAP and VIPA was formed.
If the AFAP had represented their members properly in the first place, VIPA wouldn’t even be here!
The Bullwinkle is offline  
Old 27th Jan 2019, 22:30
  #90 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by The Bullwinkle View Post


If you’d seen the pile of dog turd EBA that the AFAP recommended back in 2006, you’d understand why VIPA came into existence.
The Feds were so, as you put it, Pissweak, that pilots left the AFAP and VIPA was formed.
If the AFAP had represented their members properly in the first place, VIPA wouldn’t even be here!
Dog Turd...…….do you mean the "2007" agreement?

1. You mean the Dog Turd that gives you 11/12Days off in a 28 day roster.
2. You mean the Dog Turd that has enshrined your Work Rules into the EBA, which mean CASA's absurd CAO 48.1 proposal and the insane work rules these contain won't affect you (are VIPA getting their members to conduct the CASA survey into 48.1 like the AFAP have done with all their members, or just giving out Jurlique creams?),
3. You mean the Dog Turd that is the foundation of what you have today and the Dog Turd that was discussed by APIA to QF Management (they'd love our work rules and Day Off protections instead of being on the Standard Industry Exemption (SIE)...…….do you know what that SIE "Dog Turd" looks like Bullwinkle?).

Its ok Bullwinkle, I know VIPA promised the world and delivered an Atlas...……..yet we all understand this will be the AFAP's fault to.

Last edited by dirty deeds; 27th Jan 2019 at 22:43.
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 00:32
  #91 (permalink)  
 
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​​​​
Dog Turd...…….do you mean the "2007" agreement?
No. I mean the 2006 EBA document that received an 89% No Vote.
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 00:37
  #92 (permalink)  
 
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No. I mean the 2006 EBA document that received an 89% No Vote.
Endorsed as “the best you’ll get”?
GWhizz is offline  
Old 28th Jan 2019, 02:46
  #93 (permalink)  
 
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I don’t want to further digress from the thread, suffice to say that there were some good things in that 2006 agreement (one that springs to mind was a solid roster balancing provision that was removed post No Vote, would have fixed the unbalanced rostering that occurs today) that went begging for not much change to the one that got voted up..........remind you of the NO Vote campaign in 2011 where nothing materially changed (if anything the consultation provisions were watered down) and we lost the backpay, and the compounded interest on those lost increases.........hey, let’s not let the truth get in the way of a good story!

Bullwinkle........maybe time to get involved instead of throwing rocks? You might then see that not is all what it seems.

All the best to the AFAP members at TT conducting PIA.
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 03:59
  #94 (permalink)  
 
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320s making a profit would have nothing to do with routes been gifted by mainline wouldn’t it?
Heavy lifting in the group is done by.. VAA 737.

Would like to see the TT guys on the same conditions as VAA but suggestions that TT/XR etc were going great until Virgin turned up is fantasyland.
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 06:11
  #95 (permalink)  
 
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1. You mean the Dog Turd that gives you 11/12Days off in a 28 day roster.


Waaaaaah - 0nly 11 or 12 days off in a 28 day roster???!!! Trying getting sympathy from office workers, nurses, coppers, shop workers and everyone else who only get 2 days off per week, AND who aren't earning 200 grand a year. Dog turd my arse. Spoilt brats.

I'd duck due to the incoming now, but having been an airline pilot and lost 2 jobs, and then struggling to get a job for 40 grand a year, I know just how good I had it.
Trevor the lover is offline  
Old 28th Jan 2019, 06:13
  #96 (permalink)  
 
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The Dog Turd that only gives you 11 or 12 days off in a 28 day roster.
Waaaaaah - 0nly 11 or 12 days off in a 28 day roster???!!! Trying getting sympathy from office workers, nurses, coppers, shop workers and everyone else who only get 2 days off per week, AND who aren't earning 200 grand a year. Dog turd my arse. Spoilt brats. What you do isn't that special.

I'd duck due to the incoming now, but having been an airline pilot and lost 2 jobs, and then struggling to get a job for 40 grand a year, I know just how good I had it.[/QUOTE]

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Old 28th Jan 2019, 20:46
  #97 (permalink)  
 
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Great rant Trev, but doesn't address the point. TT don't get 11/12. They would like to have it. I say good luck in their efforts. BTW, you're right, coppers don't get 11/12, but the 9 weeks annual leave a year they do get sure goes a long way to making up for it. I'm sorry you're in the position you seem to be, I wish you the best, but keep it relevant. It's an ambit claim. Like all the rest. I wish them luck..............
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 21:39
  #98 (permalink)  
 
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Sorry Porchy - was just directly quoting the guy who said "dog turd EBA that only gives 11 or 12 days off a month."
I take your point regarding coppers - that just leaves nurses, office workers etc etc
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Old 29th Jan 2019, 04:02
  #99 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Trevor the lover View Post
Sorry Porchy - was just directly quoting the guy who said "dog turd EBA that only gives 11 or 12 days off a month."
I take your point regarding coppers - that just leaves nurses, office workers etc etc
Dirty deeds post is tongue-in-cheek. Not sure how you could miss that. Anyways, how stupid to compare an office worker, coppers, nurses or whatever else you could think of to airline pilot T&C’s. Completely irrelevant and sounds like sour grapes. It would be nice if everyone could earn 250k a year however it doesn’t work like that.
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Old 29th Jan 2019, 04:31
  #100 (permalink)  
 
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Willie

Woops, my bad. I did misread and and missed the tongue in cheek.

Ref office workers vs pilots. Many many office workers did finance degrees, law degrees, or any other 5 year degree which could compare to pilot training. Sure, I'd love everyone to do well. Just saying that $200k plus and 12 days off a month is a pretty good deal.
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