Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Perth to London

Old 27th Dec 2018, 11:12
  #421 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Tent
Posts: 110
Originally Posted by WHBM View Post
Furthermore, any pax you suppress are the low (or zero) revenue ones. The staff, the frequent flyer redemptions, the ID90s, the PR handouts, etc.
If low or "zero" revenue pax were not an important part of an airline we would only have 1st and Business seats with maybe just maybe some premium economy seats - NO Economy and fill the rest with freight.
Now since that does not happen and we see the rise of budget carriers - seems low revenue paxs actually make airlines money!

The staff if you read and in particular pilots get upset without confirmed tickets for them and family - any bumping will make them take the better offers.

Frequent Flyer redemption have actually paid more than the fare would have cost in cash - if they are not "Rewarded" with the "Fly Buys" they will jump ship. (Qantas and woolies change made Coles very happy.

ID 90 hurts some employees (that then look at options for better places to work) or some ex staff.

Now bumping a "PR" hand out - I assume you mean a "Public Relations" hand out ticket. Only a fool would do that!
Bend alot is offline  
Old 27th Dec 2018, 13:09
  #422 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: London UK
Posts: 6,155
Who said bumping ? You don't offer the freebie reservations on the critical flights in the first place.

Economy class assessed in terms of revenue dollars per cabin square meterage taken comes a lot closer to that in F/C than commonly supposed. I believe Premium Economy can sometimes exceed the others on this basis.
WHBM is offline  
Old 27th Dec 2018, 13:33
  #423 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Tent
Posts: 110
Originally Posted by WHBM View Post
Who said bumping ? You don't offer the freebie reservations on the critical flights in the first place.

Economy class assessed in terms of revenue dollars per cabin square meterage taken comes a lot closer to that in F/C than commonly supposed. I believe Premium Economy can sometimes exceed the others on this basis.
So how much notice do you intend to give the "PR" flight people "advance notice" of departure? if they are not to be on critical flights - we can not bump them! So it is you that need to reduce your initital class that is effected ( you named the groups).

So you agree pissing of staff and some ID90's (often not economy pax anyway) will not be a very smart move for staff retention and moral?
Bend alot is offline  
Old 27th Dec 2018, 17:43
  #424 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Ontario
Posts: 2
Can someone please post images of the crew after this awful flight? I used to feel like a bollock after 14 hours!
A320ECAM is offline  
Old 27th Dec 2018, 21:07
  #425 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: BNE, Australia
Posts: 259
Originally Posted by Bend alot View Post
If low or "zero" revenue pax were not an important part of an airline we would only have 1st and Business seats with maybe just maybe some premium economy seats - NO Economy and fill the rest with freight.
Now since that does not happen and we see the rise of budget carriers - seems low revenue paxs actually make airlines money!

The staff if you read and in particular pilots get upset without confirmed tickets for them and family - any bumping will make them take the better offers.

Frequent Flyer redemption have actually paid more than the fare would have cost in cash - if they are not "Rewarded" with the "Fly Buys" they will jump ship. (Qantas and woolies change made Coles very happy.

ID 90 hurts some employees (that then look at options for better places to work) or some ex staff.

Now bumping a "PR" hand out - I assume you mean a "Public Relations" hand out ticket. Only a fool would do that!
Do I take this to mean you think Qantas ought to become a LCC?

I think you've just got a bone to pick, if you're moaning about bumping a few low yield pax in order to ensure the guys up front who paid $10k a ticket get to fly.

A route is a failure if it can afford to carry 45 freebie or ID90 pax every flight? Give us a break.
chuboy is offline  
Old 27th Dec 2018, 22:54
  #426 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Tent
Posts: 110
chuboy - Qantas passenger service has reduced a lot over the years and infact is a LCC on a number of legs only with the premium price - You know this when "We wish a warm welcome to all our Qantas passengers" is made by cabin crew wearing Jetstar uniforms.

I have no bone to pick, only I think it is arrogant that you and others treat other people in a sub-standard way and think wreaking 45 peoples plans is fine, because someone ticket got paid to a value of $10,000.

Where did I say it was a "Failure"?

I was saying if economy pax are not important (and make no money) do not sell them tickets at all - only sell First, Businesses & freight. Then no low yeilders will get bumped and have their plans changed.

Keep in mind a lot of the low yeild passengers have indirectly paid for those $10,000 tickets and a few helicopter rides and other perks.
Bend alot is offline  
Old 27th Dec 2018, 23:05
  #427 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Lagrangian point 2
Posts: 146
Originally Posted by Bend alot View Post
chuboy - Qantas passenger service has reduced a lot over the years and infact is a LCC on a number of legs only with the premium price - You know this when "We wish a warm welcome to all our Qantas passengers" is made by cabin crew wearing Jetstar uniforms.

I have no bone to pick, only I think it is arrogant that you and others treat other people in a sub-standard way and think wreaking 45 peoples plans is fine, because someone ticket got paid to a value of $10,000.

Where did I say it was a "Failure"?

I was saying if economy pax are not important (and make no money) do not sell them tickets at all - only sell First, Businesses & freight. Then no low yeilders will get bumped and have their plans changed.

Keep in mind a lot of the low yeild passengers have indirectly paid for those $10,000 tickets and a few helicopter rides and other perks.

I write it again... Not 45 people. 45 seats. The load factors are around 90%, not 100%, so you could say around 20 odd people are called up earlier in the day or week and asked if they would go via Singapore on the QF72 / QF1, or a day earlier or later. If those individuals are canny enough they might ask for some minor compensation, perhaps it is even offered. Maybe a little disappointment not getting to go on the new fandangled direct Service, but they bought the cheaper tickets with their terms of carriage, and ultimately they get to the destination. And remember, out of 365 services I’d be surprised if it happens on 10%, maybe 20% of them, and it ensures the service remains profitable.

There may be lots of reasons to bash Management, but credit where it is due, this ain’t it.

Last edited by ExtraShot; 28th Dec 2018 at 00:03.
ExtraShot is offline  
Old 27th Dec 2018, 23:09
  #428 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: London UK
Posts: 6,155
Originally Posted by Bend alot View Post
So how much notice do you intend to give the "PR" flight people "advance notice" of departure? if they are not to be on critical flights - we can not bump them! So it is you that need to reduce your initital class that is effected ( you named the groups).

So you agree pissing of staff and some ID90's (often not economy pax anyway) will not be a very smart move for staff retention and moral?
(Sigh). Do I really have to come from the other side of the world to teach Yield Management 1.01 ?

Bit of a revelation to hear about the staff morals though. Do tell more
WHBM is offline  
Old 28th Dec 2018, 00:57
  #429 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Balikpapan, INDONESIA
Age: 67
Posts: 478
Originally Posted by ExtraShot View Post
.................a minority of services during a small window of the year .........
Not sure if you've ever been to Perth, but the hot weather hasn't really started yet.
And the window is likely to be about 10 weeks.
WingNut60 is offline  
Old 28th Dec 2018, 01:35
  #430 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 291
So can someone advise - is the reduction in payload due to European winter weather conditions or takeoff limitations in Perth’s summer ?
On eyre is offline  
Old 28th Dec 2018, 01:48
  #431 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 1,270
Anyone from QF got any theories about all the extra Perth 787 training slots? I thought Sydney was the next base on the cards
Transition Layer is online now  
Old 28th Dec 2018, 02:10
  #432 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: sydney
Posts: 752
[QUOTE=On eyre;10345654]
So can someone advise - is the reduction in payload due to European winter weather conditions or takeoff limitations in Perth’s summer ?
Both, however on a very hot day in Perth last week max take off weight was reduced by 5000 kilos plus the higher SG reduce fuel up lift by about 1000 kilos.
dragon man is online now  
Old 28th Dec 2018, 02:13
  #433 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: sydney
Posts: 752
Originally Posted by Transition Layer View Post
Anyone from QF got any theories about all the extra Perth 787 training slots? I thought Sydney was the next base on the cards
I was told and this is a rumour network that the Sydney base was not been opened till 2020 and that maybe that was because they were considering a Perth to Paris service. I say again, rumour only.
dragon man is online now  
Old 28th Dec 2018, 02:49
  #434 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Australia
Age: 44
Posts: 8
Has QF9/10 had to divert yet? There was a lot of noise that it would be diverting regularly before it started.
chrisb74 is offline  
Old 28th Dec 2018, 02:53
  #435 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Brisvegas
Posts: 2,671
plus the higher SG reduce fuel up lift by about 1000 kilos.
Really?

High temperature = high SG?
Icarus2001 is online now  
Old 28th Dec 2018, 03:00
  #436 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Lagrangian point 2
Posts: 146
Originally Posted by WingNut60 View Post
Not sure if you've ever been to Perth, but the hot weather hasn't really started yet.
And the window is likely to be about 10 weeks.

Hmmm, a ‘window’ of 10 weeks out of 52... not necessarily every day out of those 10 weeks...

ergo- a ‘minority’ of services.
ExtraShot is offline  
Old 28th Dec 2018, 04:44
  #437 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Tent
Posts: 110
Originally Posted by ExtraShot View Post



These figures don’t include pax on a Melbourne to London ticket. Load factors improve significantly (into the 90s) when included.
So is it correct to say that the 787 has a load factor of around 20% on the MELB/PER/MELB legs of this flight?

What % would be Business, Premium Economy and Economy?
Bend alot is offline  
Old 28th Dec 2018, 05:20
  #438 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,240
Originally Posted by On eyre View Post
So can someone advise - is the reduction in payload due to European winter weather conditions or takeoff limitations in Perth’s summer ?
That is the pertinent question.
What happens when environmental variables limit the service at both ends?
Rated De is offline  
Old 28th Dec 2018, 05:26
  #439 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Tent
Posts: 110
Originally Posted by Rated De View Post
That is the pertinent question.
What happens when environmental variables limit the service at both ends?
What should happen is exactly the same as if the environmental variable (that should be considered prior to accepting bookings) is only at one end.

And that should be not shaft the cream.
Bend alot is offline  
Old 28th Dec 2018, 05:31
  #440 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: BNE, Australia
Posts: 259
Originally Posted by Bend alot View Post
chuboy - Qantas passenger service has reduced a lot over the years and infact is a LCC on a number of legs only with the premium price - You know this when "We wish a warm welcome to all our Qantas passengers" is made by cabin crew wearing Jetstar uniforms.

I have no bone to pick, only I think it is arrogant that you and others treat other people in a sub-standard way and think wreaking 45 peoples plans is fine, because someone ticket got paid to a value of $10,000.

Where did I say it was a "Failure"?

I was saying if economy pax are not important (and make no money) do not sell them tickets at all - only sell First, Businesses & freight. Then no low yeilders will get bumped and have their plans changed.

Keep in mind a lot of the low yield passengers have indirectly paid for those $10,000 tickets and a few helicopter rides and other perks.
At the very least, you still get a checked bag with your ticket on Qantas. The same can't be said of BA, the US majors, and many more.

I could explain to you why economy class is still important but there are already videos on youtube you could watch if you really cared to learn, it's not like you even have to buy a textbook in this age. Are Qantas expected to cancel the flight or even the route if they can't take everyone who has a ticket every day of the year? Are the high-yielding business class passengers more, less, or equally important to Qantas than Ethel and Barry who bought Economy Super Saver fares and can be rerouted MEL-SIN-LHR instead of MEL-PER-LHR?

Fact is, you may not like to hear it but someone who is willing to drop 10k on a flight to London in Business is more important to a full-service carrier than economy pax who would have flown with Air Asia if only that were an option. I'm not suggesting those who are not wealthy enough to fly business are less equal as people, but Qantas is a business and not the human rights commission and they should be expected to discriminate in favour of individuals who have a bigger impact on their bottom line.
chuboy is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.