Airnorth Cancellng Flights
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NGsim
Rubbish. Because of small GA and Military experience availability European airlines have been doing just that with complete safety for some time. With the correct selection and flight training many European airlines put 250 + hours pilots into RHS of A320/B737.
BA and EasyJet. (Europe’s Jetstar) for example. After Type Rating and Base Training extensive route training, in my airline 50 sectors with Training Captain, they have been safe and productive pilots.
It just needs the airline resources to do it.
Rubbish. Because of small GA and Military experience availability European airlines have been doing just that with complete safety for some time. With the correct selection and flight training many European airlines put 250 + hours pilots into RHS of A320/B737.
BA and EasyJet. (Europe’s Jetstar) for example. After Type Rating and Base Training extensive route training, in my airline 50 sectors with Training Captain, they have been safe and productive pilots.
It just needs the airline resources to do it.
Very True Industry Insider.
There has been a significant experienced resource in the Helo industry of quite experienced IFR experienced pilots in both Offshore and SAR EMS....probably a large portion of which with F/W licence albeit a basic commercial or PVT...but will possess at least a ATPL(H).
If not already with F/W licence, its not that hard to learn F/W from Helo. All the procedural stuff is largely the same when it comes to IFR. It really is about basic differences in handling, aerodynamics and systems (pressurisation etc) Many MultiEng helicopters are more complex in Systems and flight controls and powertrains than many multi eng regional Jets.
Another possibility is to remove any "max Age" limitations and utilise the big advantage that CASA does allow....flying beyond 65 y/o while you can still maintain the ATPL medical.....agreed, some people do get more dithering as they get older. But that should be up to company training departments to be critical enough and have the balls to say to the individuals that your time is up.....
This is one advantage that this part of the world has over the European(EASA)/ ME/Asia etc....without lifting these max age limits ...they will inevitably run into a major pilot shortage.
Some companies prevent pilots flying beyond 65y/o. Others quietly discriminate against hiring pilots older than 60y/o. There is still a lot of experience tied up those individuals and can be of excellent value to any company who wishes to take the "risk" and utilise it, rather than feeling threatened by them.
As already espoused through this forum and elsewhere...the looming pilot shortage is not unsolvable. It is also largely created by a myopic industry which fails to look for lateral solutions both inside and outside the "traditional" source of pilots and fails to identify where it has artificially built hurdles to inhibit pilot numbers rather than to increase pilot numbers.
Food for thought......
cheers
There has been a significant experienced resource in the Helo industry of quite experienced IFR experienced pilots in both Offshore and SAR EMS....probably a large portion of which with F/W licence albeit a basic commercial or PVT...but will possess at least a ATPL(H).
If not already with F/W licence, its not that hard to learn F/W from Helo. All the procedural stuff is largely the same when it comes to IFR. It really is about basic differences in handling, aerodynamics and systems (pressurisation etc) Many MultiEng helicopters are more complex in Systems and flight controls and powertrains than many multi eng regional Jets.
Another possibility is to remove any "max Age" limitations and utilise the big advantage that CASA does allow....flying beyond 65 y/o while you can still maintain the ATPL medical.....agreed, some people do get more dithering as they get older. But that should be up to company training departments to be critical enough and have the balls to say to the individuals that your time is up.....
This is one advantage that this part of the world has over the European(EASA)/ ME/Asia etc....without lifting these max age limits ...they will inevitably run into a major pilot shortage.
Some companies prevent pilots flying beyond 65y/o. Others quietly discriminate against hiring pilots older than 60y/o. There is still a lot of experience tied up those individuals and can be of excellent value to any company who wishes to take the "risk" and utilise it, rather than feeling threatened by them.
As already espoused through this forum and elsewhere...the looming pilot shortage is not unsolvable. It is also largely created by a myopic industry which fails to look for lateral solutions both inside and outside the "traditional" source of pilots and fails to identify where it has artificially built hurdles to inhibit pilot numbers rather than to increase pilot numbers.
Food for thought......
cheers
But that should be up to company training departments to be critical enough and have the balls to say to the individuals that your time is up.....
Do this once, Fair Work will rip you a new one! (rectum).
Do it again, and you wont be an airline anymore.
You can not simple get rid of a person in Australia and replace them with a younger more productive one.
They have to fail to do the job (task), not just take longer or be more fussy. It would be up to the employer to reschedule flights for this dithery employee or retrain then.
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I have the solution!!!
For all of the airlines in Australia.....
PAY MORE MONEY AND GIVE DECENT SCHEDULES.
Problem solved, so many will return from overseas.
The rest is just playing around the edges.
PAY MORE MONEY AND GIVE DECENT SCHEDULES.
Problem solved, so many will return from overseas.
The rest is just playing around the edges.
Pay? T&C?
Anyone prepared to say what Air North pay its pilots?
I remember one manager in the company saying, of the glut of pilots some years ago, that the recruitment process was something like "go outside to the nearest tree and give it a shake. What hangs on is monkeys and what falls out is pilots". The pay back then reflected this sentiment.
Times have certainally changed, but has Air North changed with them?
Just askin.
There is a bunch of pilots in Darwin who could all easily slip into an AN seat but they probably wouldn't want to take the pay cut to do it....
Last time I looked on the AFAP website, CareFlight were offering its Darwin based pilots a starting wage of $122,000 pa plus allowances, super, six weeks annual leave, salary sacrifice etc.
Good coin to fly a King Air.
Air North needs to up the ante.
I remember one manager in the company saying, of the glut of pilots some years ago, that the recruitment process was something like "go outside to the nearest tree and give it a shake. What hangs on is monkeys and what falls out is pilots". The pay back then reflected this sentiment.
Times have certainally changed, but has Air North changed with them?
Just askin.
There is a bunch of pilots in Darwin who could all easily slip into an AN seat but they probably wouldn't want to take the pay cut to do it....
Last time I looked on the AFAP website, CareFlight were offering its Darwin based pilots a starting wage of $122,000 pa plus allowances, super, six weeks annual leave, salary sacrifice etc.
Good coin to fly a King Air.
Air North needs to up the ante.
NGsim
Rubbish. Because of small GA and Military experience availability European airlines have been doing just that with complete safety for some time. With the correct selection and flight training many European airlines put 250 + hours pilots into RHS of A320/B737.
BA and EasyJet. (Europe’s Jetstar) for example. After Type Rating and Base Training extensive route training, in my airline 50 sectors with Training Captain, they have been safe and productive pilots.
It just needs the airline resources to do it.
Rubbish. Because of small GA and Military experience availability European airlines have been doing just that with complete safety for some time. With the correct selection and flight training many European airlines put 250 + hours pilots into RHS of A320/B737.
BA and EasyJet. (Europe’s Jetstar) for example. After Type Rating and Base Training extensive route training, in my airline 50 sectors with Training Captain, they have been safe and productive pilots.
It just needs the airline resources to do it.
Extensive route training! That about sums it up. You teach an inexperienced guy how to fly the same hour, over and over again. And most airlines will skimp for commercial expedience at giving these cadets the depth of training they need.
Seen it over and over. Thankfully technology is protecting the travelling public but when something goes wrong, they expect Captain Sullenberger up front. And it aint so.
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Anyone prepared to say what Air North pay its pilots?
I remember one manager in the company saying, of the glut of pilots some years ago, that the recruitment process was something like "go outside to the nearest tree and give it a shake. What hangs on is monkeys and what falls out is pilots". The pay back then reflected this sentiment.
Times have certainally changed, but has Air North changed with them?
Just askin.
There is a bunch of pilots in Darwin who could all easily slip into an AN seat but they probably wouldn't want to take the pay cut to do it....
Last time I looked on the AFAP website, CareFlight were offering its Darwin based pilots a starting wage of $122,000 pa plus allowances, super, six weeks annual leave, salary sacrifice etc.
Good coin to fly a King Air.
Air North needs to up the ante.
I remember one manager in the company saying, of the glut of pilots some years ago, that the recruitment process was something like "go outside to the nearest tree and give it a shake. What hangs on is monkeys and what falls out is pilots". The pay back then reflected this sentiment.
Times have certainally changed, but has Air North changed with them?
Just askin.
There is a bunch of pilots in Darwin who could all easily slip into an AN seat but they probably wouldn't want to take the pay cut to do it....
Last time I looked on the AFAP website, CareFlight were offering its Darwin based pilots a starting wage of $122,000 pa plus allowances, super, six weeks annual leave, salary sacrifice etc.
Good coin to fly a King Air.
Air North needs to up the ante.
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Reading lots of job posts stating that the company is 'dynamic'. What does that mean? A complete sh1t fight due to lack of pilots? Sounds fun!
I fly ME, MC RW IFR; a frustrating position to be in knowing full well it is flown to cat a yet am unemployable in a fw role because I don't have 250 command of a 172....off to the USA it is where there are rotor transition programs.
One day the Aus carriers will catch up.
I fly ME, MC RW IFR; a frustrating position to be in knowing full well it is flown to cat a yet am unemployable in a fw role because I don't have 250 command of a 172....off to the USA it is where there are rotor transition programs.
One day the Aus carriers will catch up.
Yep, exactly. I don't see any issue at all putting a CPL with 250 hours in the RHS of an A320/B737 etc. If they pass the checks, let them do the job. If not, let them go.
Plenty of examples where this is being done successfully....China Southern are putting hundreds of pilots with that experience into their operation every year.
Plenty of examples where this is being done successfully....China Southern are putting hundreds of pilots with that experience into their operation every year.
IMO there is a shortage of one thing in the Australian aviation industry and that's entry level Multi Jobs. Unless you are lucky enough to get into a charter company that has the opportunity of progression on multi's its very difficult.
I honestly think that the best option for a young guy whom wants to make a jet caerer in Australia today would be to spend a couple of years getting up to 1500 hours single time with multi ir rating and heading of to America for 4 or so years and getting Jet command time and then coming back home meeting the mins for all F/O jobs downunder.
I honestly think that the best option for a young guy whom wants to make a jet caerer in Australia today would be to spend a couple of years getting up to 1500 hours single time with multi ir rating and heading of to America for 4 or so years and getting Jet command time and then coming back home meeting the mins for all F/O jobs downunder.
Apologies, yes this training regime I describe can only be done by the larger well resourced airlines.
But it has been brought about by the same AUS problems, in that there is now no large GA or Military experience to draw from in Europe.
And for all those who want to recruit only Capt Sullenbergs as their new hires. Where do you get them from?
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Airnorth is a good company to work for, pay is compatible with other similar regionals, just struggling like all other regionals due to the majors all recruiting. Requirements are pretty standard. Need more experienced guys as training department is stretched thin.
The problem is with the initial CPL training in this country. After gaining a CPL you aren’t even really trusted to fly a light 4 seater piston single in charter ops without additional training and quals. For jobs that barely even exist anymore as GA is dying. Most regionals thought they’d just be able keep employing pilots with a few thousand hours of multi piston time. But those aircraft (along with the singles) are just not there in the same numbers as they once were.
Flying schools in the EU and most of the world can get you up to a standard to fly RHS of a turboprop or jet after 250 hours. Through a combination of proper selection and focused training.
It’s up to schools in Australia to change their mentality to match that. The shortage now is for multi crew airline pilots, not GA charter pilots. That’s what the ab-initio training should reflect. If the schools here aren’t producing that level of student then of course airlines will look to employ pilots from overseas.
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I think we are also starting to see a generational shift where newly qualified CPL pilots think it's their devine right to go straight to a shiny jet and uniform instead of putting in the effort and sacrifice to find jobs. No longer are they willing to door knock dropping off resumes, move around the country or do basic jobs like cleaning aircraft in order to get a foot in the door. Instead they want all the money and privllage with out sacrifice or doing any of the hard work it takes to get there.
I have 2000 hours consisting of 300 in a 210 and 1500 in a Caravan and a tiny bit of PC12 time. Plenty of NT wet season experience but because I have less than 100 hours multi I am not worthy to sit in the RHS of anything in Australia.
How have we come to this?
How have we come to this?
I believe that Airnorth have already been down the cadet pilot path as well, the cadets were bought in from another airline, don’t recall the specific details although I recall hearing this from an Airnorth trainer and checker. Not sure what the situation is now.
22K is correct, I live in Darwin and far exceed Airnorth’s minimum requirements however for me to go and work for them I would have to take a substantial salary cut. Admittedly I’m not employed in the aviation industry anymore however I’d certainly get back into flying if the T and Cs were more competitive.
22K is correct, I live in Darwin and far exceed Airnorth’s minimum requirements however for me to go and work for them I would have to take a substantial salary cut. Admittedly I’m not employed in the aviation industry anymore however I’d certainly get back into flying if the T and Cs were more competitive.
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European Airline job
No you would not. I have over 5000 hours, multiple jet type ratings, a twin turbo prop type rating.
I have over 4000 multi time, 2700 hours PIC which include 1700 hours multi turbine PIC, an FAA ATP, EASA ATPL, CASA ATPL, South African CPL/IR-Multi and I still get told i need 500 on type for European jobs.
I work in the US flying a jet for an airline and am battling to get an interview back in Aus or Europe with an airline.
I know 10000 hour pilots in Europe who cannot get jobs because they dont have 500 hours on type. Its a joke.
I have over 4000 multi time, 2700 hours PIC which include 1700 hours multi turbine PIC, an FAA ATP, EASA ATPL, CASA ATPL, South African CPL/IR-Multi and I still get told i need 500 on type for European jobs.
I work in the US flying a jet for an airline and am battling to get an interview back in Aus or Europe with an airline.
I know 10000 hour pilots in Europe who cannot get jobs because they dont have 500 hours on type. Its a joke.
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Jetstar NZ Dash 8 DEC minimums .. first time they're accepting people without 500 multi-PIC if you have 1000 hours as FO on aircraft greater than MTOW 13,000 KG.
https://www.jetstar.com/au/en/career...ptains/1530452
And Network also has just advertised similar minimum requirements too. How long before Air North and the others requiring 250/500 multi-PIC (for an FO position) follow suit? Surely experience as an RPT FO flying multi-engine turbine is just as valuable as 500 PIC multi-engine piston?
https://www.jetstar.com/au/en/career...ptains/1530452
And Network also has just advertised similar minimum requirements too. How long before Air North and the others requiring 250/500 multi-PIC (for an FO position) follow suit? Surely experience as an RPT FO flying multi-engine turbine is just as valuable as 500 PIC multi-engine piston?
Surely experience as an RPT FO flying multi-engine turbine is just as valuable as 500 PIC multi-engine piston?
If you are wanted as an FO then yes. If you are wanted as a Captain then it’s debatable.