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Airnorth Cancellng Flights

Old 15th Jan 2018, 23:21
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Airnorth Cancellng Flights

ABC news reporting that Airnorth are cancelling flights due to pilot shortage.

Interesting times.
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Old 16th Jan 2018, 00:14
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I looked up all their job openings. Minimum 1000 hours, 250 multi command preferably with turboprop hours.

Everyone wants people with experience, nobody wants to give the experience.
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Old 16th Jan 2018, 00:27
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^ Those are not ridiculous minimums. Some of the lowest in the country - the problem is their pay is too..
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Old 16th Jan 2018, 01:14
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They're just running a headline so they can justify importing pilots.
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Old 16th Jan 2018, 01:17
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Originally Posted by rubbish_binny View Post
^ Those are not ridiculous minimums. Some of the lowest in the country - the problem is their pay is too..
Yeah I get what you are saying. But the pilot shortage is largely due to the fact that there is no way to bridge the gap from 200 hour CPL to 1000 hour with multi engine turbine experience, at least not in Australia (Excluding cadetships).

Yes, there would be a few jobs floating around in GA to bridge that gap for some people, but obviously its not enough.
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Old 16th Jan 2018, 01:41
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Originally Posted by ViPER_81 View Post
Yeah I get what you are saying. But the pilot shortage is largely due to the fact that there is no way to bridge the gap from 200 hour CPL to 1000 hour with multi engine turbine experience, at least not in Australia (Excluding cadetships).

Yes, there would be a few jobs floating around in GA to bridge that gap for some people, but obviously its not enough.
Ive said this in another topic but with the money on offer and aircraft type, there’s going to be very few takers for a 457 visa given what’s on offer all over the world in current times.
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Old 16th Jan 2018, 01:45
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Folks,
Re the previous post, largely you can thank CASA for that, with the collapse of the low/middle range of GA. I know there are other contributory factors, but the weight of over regulation, and CASA "anti-business" micromanagement is, by far, the dominant reason.
Tootle pip!!
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Old 16th Jan 2018, 01:52
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Not particularly surprised. I turned down an interview offered a few years ago. Their package, conditions and recruitment professionalism hoisted numerous red-flags. It seems the chickens are coming home to roost.
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Old 16th Jan 2018, 02:11
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There are people with those mins but airlines are just still too picky.

I was renctly asked if I had 500 hours planned IFR in a twin. I said no and the conversation pretty much ended there. That was on top of the MCC course they wanted me to do and the IFR renewal they told me I had to do because it was just under 6 months to go.

Its a company induced shortage really.
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Old 16th Jan 2018, 02:18
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Originally Posted by LeadSled View Post
Folks,
Re the previous post, largely you can thank CASA for that, with the collapse of the low/middle range of GA. I know there are other contributory factors, but the weight of over regulation, and CASA "anti-business" micromanagement is, by far, the dominant reason.
Tootle pip!!
I dont claim to have any industry insight into any of this, but that seems to be the general consensus.

So what happens next? Assuming the GA industry isn't coming back to the levels it used to be, how do we bridge the gap and stop airlines claiming a pilot shortage and importing pilots ? (whether they actually get any pilots is another issue).

If airlines can take cadets and put them in the RHS of Dash8's and ATR's, why cant regional airlines like this take 250hr CPL's with MECIR and put them in the RHS?
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Old 16th Jan 2018, 02:26
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Folks,
Re the previous post, largely you can thank CASA for that, with the collapse of the low/middle range of GA. I know there are other contributory factors, but the weight of over regulation, and CASA "anti-business" micromanagement is, by far, the dominant reason.
Tootle pip!!

GA has also hit rock bottom because of communications. Face to face meetings etc replaced by Skype, Facetime etc etc. Drones doing property surveys etc along with other measures. The consolidation of farms and reduction in mining etc also reduces the needs. The RFDS and other medical mobs have increased their fleets but also their requirements.

Airport charges and rents plus noone wants to live in the back of beyond to fly or fix aircraft anymore. All this adds up. Too easy to single out CASA which of course is but one factor.
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Old 16th Jan 2018, 02:53
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Originally Posted by ViPER_81 View Post
If airlines can take cadets and put them in the RHS of Dash8's and ATR's, why cant regional airlines like this take 250hr CPL's with MECIR and put them in the RHS?
Because airlines have a (comparatively) huge amount of resources to deal with individuals like that. I hate to tell you this but a CPL with 250 hours barely knows the basics of flying a light aircraft let alone something more complex.
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Old 16th Jan 2018, 03:38
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TL is owned by Bristow, they are making helicopter pilots redundant as their helicopter business continues to contract. I am sure some would have FW licences, perhaps invest in their staff, engender longer term loyalty by re-training where possible and use them as P2 in the meantime?
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Old 16th Jan 2018, 04:33
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Every airline has hundreds of applications on their books but they are all from the same pool of pilots. The number of suitable applicants is much smaller and will be taken up by more desirable employers. Airnorth have probably found that their shortlist has thinned out considerably once they started calling people, very few pilots will bother to inform companies they have previously applied to that they have found other jobs and want to withdraw their applications.

The bigger regionals are better set up when it comes to bringing low timers up to standard, Airnorth would probably be used to dealing with someone who has a few years experience on twins already and slots in easily.

Similar operators in other countries without a large GA sector have managed to deal with new joiners with zero experience. Australian regionals may have to start doing the same and bring their pay levels up if they want to compete for a declining number of applicants.
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Old 16th Jan 2018, 05:07
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How many AN pilots have gone to Emirates? As many as Rex?
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Old 16th Jan 2018, 05:22
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They should get some cheap imports.
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Old 16th Jan 2018, 06:04
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A number of Aussies in the US with time on the E175. Do they take DEFO on the Ejet or does everyone start on the props?
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Old 16th Jan 2018, 06:13
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DEFO on the Ejet.

https://www.seek.com.au/job/35247075...7b1e97-3166536
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Old 16th Jan 2018, 06:58
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NGsim
Rubbish. Because of small GA and Military experience availability European airlines have been doing just that with complete safety for some time. With the correct selection and flight training many European airlines put 250 + hours pilots into RHS of A320/B737.
BA and EasyJet. (Europe’s Jetstar) for example. After Type Rating and Base Training extensive route training, in my airline 50 sectors with Training Captain, they have been safe and productive pilots.
It just needs the airline resources to do it.
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Old 16th Jan 2018, 07:01
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Very True Industry Insider.

There has been a significant experienced resource in the Helo industry of quite experienced IFR experienced pilots in both Offshore and SAR EMS....probably a large portion of which with F/W licence albeit a basic commercial or PVT...but will possess at least a ATPL(H).

If not already with F/W licence, its not that hard to learn F/W from Helo. All the procedural stuff is largely the same when it comes to IFR. It really is about basic differences in handling, aerodynamics and systems (pressurisation etc) Many MultiEng helicopters are more complex in Systems and flight controls and powertrains than many multi eng regional Jets.

Another possibility is to remove any "max Age" limitations and utilise the big advantage that CASA does allow....flying beyond 65 y/o while you can still maintain the ATPL medical.....agreed, some people do get more dithering as they get older. But that should be up to company training departments to be critical enough and have the balls to say to the individuals that your time is up.....

This is one advantage that this part of the world has over the European(EASA)/ ME/Asia etc....without lifting these max age limits ...they will inevitably run into a major pilot shortage.

Some companies prevent pilots flying beyond 65y/o. Others quietly discriminate against hiring pilots older than 60y/o. There is still a lot of experience tied up those individuals and can be of excellent value to any company who wishes to take the "risk" and utilise it, rather than feeling threatened by them.

As already espoused through this forum and elsewhere...the looming pilot shortage is not unsolvable. It is also largely created by a myopic industry which fails to look for lateral solutions both inside and outside the "traditional" source of pilots and fails to identify where it has artificially built hurdles to inhibit pilot numbers rather than to increase pilot numbers.

Food for thought......

cheers
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