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So you need a new fleet Leigh?

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So you need a new fleet Leigh?

Old 15th Feb 2018, 07:28
  #61 (permalink)  
 
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What's different this time as opposed to the other previous near financial disasters?
A Jetstar fixated woofta pikey , thats about to be caught out by IFRS accounting standards , that’s what’s different this time around !

Last edited by blow.n.gasket; 16th Feb 2018 at 01:59.
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Old 15th Feb 2018, 09:41
  #62 (permalink)  
 
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Face it, thanks to inept management at all levels QANTAS is the Titanic looking for an iceberg.
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Old 15th Feb 2018, 10:12
  #63 (permalink)  
 
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I don’t think the Qantas as we know it, has long to live. It will be broken up into many fractured pieces, poorly disguised as one entity.
The flying public will happily pay the low fares and conveniently ignore the truth.
RIP.
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Old 15th Feb 2018, 20:40
  #64 (permalink)  
 
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I don’t think the Qantas as we know it, has long to live. It will be broken up into many fractured pieces, poorly disguised as one entity.
Qantas is already many fractured pieces , some more fractured than others , it’s called the Qantas Group .
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Old 15th Feb 2018, 23:19
  #65 (permalink)  
 
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.What's different this time as opposed to the other previous near financial disasters?
Nev, itís not so much talk of financial disaster, or the collapse of Qantas. But the foundations for that will start to appear if they try to navigate the next downturn with their current fleet.

The new narrative, out just this week,seems to be that if Short Haul Pilots donít accept Open slather Network/Jetconnect flying without written scope, that no more 787s can be ordered.

Like a kid being offered an Ice Cream for being good for his mum at the shops, if SH Pilots behave, then we Might be able to get the board to agree to buy more 787s... otherwise, those options are just going to be allowed to lapse. (Alan Joyce has said they wonít buy anymore until the 787 Business case proves itself, so thereís already a conflicting statement to the above, unless 3 months of flying a part schedule has told them what 600 plus aircraft flying around the world already should have).

As we all know, QF canít fly itís current fleet forever. Even ratings agencies are starting to notice that they HAVE to spend money on fleet improvements to remain competitive. And Soon! So QF Pilots should be looking at threats like this with the utmost suspicion.

If Qf werenít to spend that money, perhaps we can analyze what happens when Oil goes back to $100 plus per barrel, and Qf is flying 15-20yr old 747s and A330s against its competition, who have a350s and 787s... (whatís the fuel burn per seat of a QF 744 vs a new SQ 787-10?).
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Old 15th Feb 2018, 23:32
  #66 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ExtraShot View Post
Nev, itís not so much talk of financial disaster, or the collapse of Qantas. But the foundations for that will start to appear if they try to navigate the next downturn with their current fleet.

The new narrative, out just this week,seems to be that if Short Haul Pilots donít accept Open slather Network/Jetconnect flying without written scope, that no more 787s can be ordered.

Like a kid being offered an Ice Cream for being good for his mum at the shops, if SH Pilots behave, then we Might be able to get the board to agree to buy more 787s... otherwise, those options are just going to be allowed to lapse. (Alan Joyce has said they wonít buy anymore until the 787 Business case proves itself, so thereís already a conflicting statement to the above, unless 3 months of flying a part schedule has told them what 600 plus aircraft flying around the world already should have).

As we all know, QF canít fly itís current fleet forever. Even ratings agencies are starting to notice that they HAVE to spend money on fleet improvements to remain competitive. And Soon! So QF Pilots should be looking at threats like this with the utmost suspicion.

If Qf werenít to spend that money, perhaps we can analyze what happens when Oil goes back to $100 plus per barrel, and Qf is flying 15-20yr old 747s and A330s against its competition, who have a350s and 787s... (whatís the fuel burn per seat of a QF 744 vs a new SQ 787-10?).
This ^
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Old 15th Feb 2018, 23:57
  #67 (permalink)  
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But the foundations for that will start to appear if they try to navigate the next downturn with their current fleet
They fiddled whilst Rome burned, rewarding themselves handsomely.
They were gifted an Australian icon with a clean balance sheet and the youngest fleet age in IATA of 6.3 years.

Take out the JQ 'experiment' and the Qantas fleet age exceeds 10.5 years.
Renewal is an imperative becoming increasingly obvious to the market.

Any contract discussion is curious as the necessity to replace the fleet on fuel CASK metrics alone is ably demonstrated.

The pilots can afford to be indifferent and remember An emergency on Qantas management's part does not constitute a need to sign a hastily put together contract...

Get the aircraft or don't get the aircraft ought be the message to the self appointed smartest guys in the room!

Indifference to their 'rubbish narrative' will serve each individual well!
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Old 16th Feb 2018, 02:10
  #68 (permalink)  
 
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Andrew David $8m last year
Alan Joyce $25m last year

And they are worried about what they pay their pilots?

Seriously?
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Old 16th Feb 2018, 04:16
  #69 (permalink)  
 
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IMO itís time we collectively ( the Qantas pilots) stopped bailing management out. Without our goodwill numerous flights every day would be cancelled. This morning there was no Capt for the 63 , they got the 25 Capt going to Haneda tonight to operate that and then found someone else to operate that tonight. One SO position was anther Capt who could only operate over and pax home because heís out of hours. This sort of thing occurs daily on all fleets, itís time to let the chickens come home to roost.
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Old 16th Feb 2018, 04:52
  #70 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by dragon man View Post
IMO itís time we collectively ( the Qantas pilots) stopped bailing management out. Without our goodwill numerous flights every day would be cancelled. This morning there was no Capt for the 63 , they got the 25 Capt going to Haneda tonight to operate that and then found someone else to operate that tonight. One SO position was anther Capt who could only operate over and pax home because heís out of hours. This sort of thing occurs daily on all fleets, itís time to let the chickens come home to roost.
100% this. STOP HELPING OUT.
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Old 16th Feb 2018, 04:52
  #71 (permalink)  
 
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The new narrative, out just this week,seems to be that if Short Haul Pilots donít accept Open slather Network/Jetconnect flying without written scope, that no more 787s can be ordered.
That there is the same spin that has been going on for some 20 years. Just change the names and aircraft types around Jetstar/National Jet/Jet Connect/Network etc

I remember a few years ago it was all doom & gloom sub $1 shares and look what happened. And the time before, and the time before that.

What you have to remember with large corporations is that it is just a game moving assests/cash around to create whatever narrative you wish to dictate.

Last edited by neville_nobody; 16th Feb 2018 at 23:46.
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Old 16th Feb 2018, 05:07
  #72 (permalink)  
 
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If you want to know where the cash has gone to renew Qantasí mainline fleet check how many Jetstar leases are being bought out by Qantas. The aircraft are then being leased backed to Jetstar at what I am certain are commercial rates. Driven by changes to financial reporting.
Alanís folly has come home to roost.
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Old 16th Feb 2018, 05:40
  #73 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ExtraShot View Post
Nev, itís not so much talk of financial disaster, or the collapse of Qantas. But the foundations for that will start to appear if they try to navigate the next downturn with their current fleet.

The new narrative, out just this week,seems to be that if Short Haul Pilots donít accept Open slather Network/Jetconnect flying without written scope, that no more 787s can be ordered.

Like a kid being offered an Ice Cream for being good for his mum at the shops, if SH Pilots behave, then we Might be able to get the board to agree to buy more 787s... otherwise, those options are just going to be allowed to lapse. (Alan Joyce has said they wonít buy anymore until the 787 Business case proves itself, so thereís already a conflicting statement to the above, unless 3 months of flying a part schedule has told them what 600 plus aircraft flying around the world already should have).

As we all know, QF canít fly itís current fleet forever. Even ratings agencies are starting to notice that they HAVE to spend money on fleet improvements to remain competitive. And Soon! So QF Pilots should be looking at threats like this with the utmost suspicion.

If Qf werenít to spend that money, perhaps we can analyze what happens when Oil goes back to $100 plus per barrel, and Qf is flying 15-20yr old 747s and A330s against its competition, who have a350s and 787s... (whatís the fuel burn per seat of a QF 744 vs a new SQ 787-10?).
Whatís with this idea here and on Qrewroom of ďacceptingĒ the Jetconnect and network decisions? There is no ďacceptanceĒ needed. It is happening. AIPA does not have the option to not ďacceptĒ.
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Old 16th Feb 2018, 05:46
  #74 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Justin. Beaver View Post
Whatís with this idea here and on Qrewroom of ďacceptingĒ the Jetconnect and network decisions? There is no ďacceptanceĒ needed. It is happening. AIPA does not have the option to not ďacceptĒ.
You are correct however the pilots have the right to work to rule. The airline runs on our goodwill nothing else at the moment.
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Old 16th Feb 2018, 06:11
  #75 (permalink)  
 
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Anyone who comments on the rolling catastrophe that once was a world beating airline and advertises their location as 'The Campus' either knows nothing about aircraft and airlines and is therefore incompetent at same, or has a sense of humour that would rival the irony in labeling Titanic as 'unsinkable'. I suspect the former - especially with a 'Justin Beaver' handle.

IF you do wish to understand airlines and understand just how silly your next love in with your HR 'co-workers' is, you should read (and more importantly understand) some of the highly insightful commentary by Rated De; Angry Rat; What The; neville nobody; Extra Shot; Blown Gasket and countless others here. Kool Aid is a wonderful product, but if you mainline it long enough it will seriously affect your health! What is so upsetting to people here is that lunacy created through overdosing Kool Aid is ruining a once iconic business and the livelihood of tens of thousands of innocent staff. Although Weeman is reducing that figure as fast as he can, it's still grossly unfair.

Surrounding yourself with yes-men when you are demonstrably incompetent has worked SO well for everyone from Nero, Hitler, Mugabe and even Kevin Rudd! So much undeserved adoration in one (campus) place simply beggars belief.

As an aside, has anyone noticed the pillorying 'Mr Real Estate' has got in the press lately? Wee man has a major gambling problem, a major (how can I say this best) 'accounting reporting addiction' and hasn't even made his own money. Why is he missing out on the publicity he so richly deserves??
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Old 16th Feb 2018, 06:22
  #76 (permalink)  
 
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Because the media is too busy having fun with Barnaby!
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Old 16th Feb 2018, 06:27
  #77 (permalink)  
 
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The financial media, not the likes of News of the World
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Old 16th Feb 2018, 06:47
  #78 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by neville_nobody View Post
That there is the same spin that has been going on for some 20 years. Just change the names and aircraft types around Jetstar/National Jet/Jet Connect/Network etc

I remember a few years ago it was all doom & gloom sub $1 shares and look what happened. And the time before, and the time before that.

What you have to remember with any large corporations is that it is just a game moving assests/cash around to create whatever narrative you wish to dictate.

A fairly direct Ďthreatí (if you will) was made the other day to Short Haul Pilots (who donít fly the 787), that either the current issues are resolved, or a Request to the board to order more new 787s in the coming months cannot/will not be made.

Letting options lapse is now being pinned on this Network/Jetconnect issue, and Short Haul Pilots.

Iím trying to point out that ordering more of these modern, fuel efficient aircraft is now imperative, no matter what is going on between Pilots and management, otherwise it wonít be long until we see those $1 shares again. It is a stupid threat to make, because it is not something they can be held to if they want future success for the airline.
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Old 16th Feb 2018, 07:11
  #79 (permalink)  
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I’m trying to point out that ordering more of these modern, fuel efficient aircraft is now imperative, no matter what is going on between Pilots and management, otherwise it won’t be long until we see those $1 shares again. It is a stupid threat to make, because it is not something they can be held to if they want future success for the airline.
Precisely.
To them as hammers every problem is a nail!
They will not change the HR/IR adversarial model unless it is forced onto them. The demographic shortage will over time weaken this model of employee relations.

In the interim:

  • Qantas signed up to reduce CO2 1.5% year on year to 2020, then carbon neutral
  • The fuel included CASK is an order of magnitude outside their peers.
  • Others (media and analysts) as well as pilots have noticed.


They run a real risk that the narrative of 'transformation' could unwind. Their capital expenditure is lagging cyclically. This is precarious which is the point of the SMH article. Not replacing capital equipment juices the numbers, but you still have to do it. It would have been a far more efficient use of shareholder capital to re-fleet rather than buy back shares.


For pilots it must be distressing to watch these self anointed smartest men in the room, do more damage after the lock out and grounding in 2011.




If it is goodwill that holds it all together, simply withdrawing that by not complying, ignoring phone calls and the 'can you help us out' cries will be sufficient.



To hurt these fools, hurt them with the things they count. Goodwill to them is a given, so they don't bother counting it.Boy do they notice when it isn't there!..Just say NO is rather elementary. No I will not extend, NO i will not sign on early. Rather simple.


If what was written is correct, the $8 million dollar man Andrew David ought be able for that amount of money to work it all out!
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Old 16th Feb 2018, 07:22
  #80 (permalink)  
 
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Point of order.

The Qantas 2017 Annual report page 38, shows Andrew David's total 2017 package, including share price growth at $3.890 million. Gareth Evans package was $8.182 million.

Carry on...
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