Hijack attempt on Malaysia Airlines

[Flying Binghi]

Via mickjoebill: It seems to me that the PA announcement was very very poor form from the modern emergency management perspective
The management would not have had a clear idea of the threat. If at the very least they knew there was an explosion (a loud bang was heard) it makes sense to ask patrons to sit tight because
1/ in such an open auditorium the effects of a bomb are far less than in the packed corridors.

2/ risk of injury due to a stampede are real.

Man with a gun is a different scenario.
In a very large venue with police present there is a case for patrons to "duck" so police or have a go heros can quickly run toward the perp.

Asking entire auditorium to exit does nothing to neutralise the shooter quickly nor does it deprive him of targets.
But in a smaller venue without police an evacuation is probably best of the crappy choices.

mickjoebill, if yer take what you just wrote and used it to work out a response to a terrorist incident you'll probably see why it took the police an hour to respond to the thread starter incident.

The trouble with modern terrorism is whilst the reasons for it are clearly defined, i.e. islam, the terrorist 'tools' and participants of the act itself can be entirely random. As far as i see it the police will be forever playing catch up because the terrorist methods and tools will just keep morphing.

Until the reason for terrorism is confronted head on people will be living and dying like frightened little sheep.





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[mickjoebill]

mickjoebill, if yer take what you just wrote and used it to work out a response to a terrorist incident you'll probably see why it took the police an hour to respond to the thread starter incident.

That's my point, policy that centralises command in chaotic fast moving situations does not always work.
Not only that, the plan was inept as it made assumptions that certain people and facilities would be available when at past midnight, they were not.

The trouble with modern terrorism is whilst the reasons for it are clearly defined, i.e. islam, the terrorist 'tools' and participants of the act itself can be entirely random. As far as i see it the police will be forever playing catch up because the terrorist methods and tools will just keep morphing.

Until the reason for terrorism is confronted head on people will be living and dying like frightened little sheep.

Perhaps you agree with me then, that in many circumstances decisions that are potentially life and death can be left in the hands of those who are on scene and responsible, in this case, pilots. If it were in the terminal it is the public themselves.
It was passengers who overpowered the "bomber", after the hostess called for help.

The takeaway from the Bushfire Royal Commision was that local emergency management teams and public need to be self motivated and not controlled from a distant HQ.

It can be done, 95000 fans attended a soccer game at MCG last week.
As has been the case for a few years, they were advised by PA that the likely impact of an attack would only affect a small section of the arena and if so, don't evacauate. This is good info as it educates the public. It doesn't say you should only move if instructed.

I understand several things did not go according to plan at Melbourne. I'm not talking of chaos as there wasn't anything happening on the ground that could not have been foreseen. I'm talking cockups. Not only was the planned response unusual and dubious in principle, they couldn't even enact some of it.
As if a bomb threat on a plane is unexpected.

Story in yesterday's press was that 40% of FED police moonlight to pay their mortgage.
Also yesterday and curiously coincidental, was a report that suggested state and Fed police need a new dedicated Billion dollar Comms system. (Which I agree is needed)

After each incident, the response from both Premiers and Prime Minister is a script that we have the best Forces in the world.
In press conference following Lindt the NSW commissioner said same thing and added that police had saved lives and that they had the best negotiators in the world! The coroner didn't share the police commissioner's view.

I wonder if the lazy, arrogant, self serving, blinkered, ignorant management by fire authorities and unquestioned by press and politicians, that failed to educate and protect the public, over the years from bushfires, is also present in our security services?

The common denominators are the political system and powerful unions and at times a self serving complicit mainstream media.


By the way, over egged media stories that Melbourne police "rescued" the female from the deranged gunmen last week, implies police were professional and proactive, when in fact the gunman ran out of the building without his hostage and opened fire, injuring 3 police.

At the commencement of the seige, police HQ had tweeted explicitly it was a domestic incident and not terror related, perhaps this wrong intelligence was the reason the three police were not better protected?

With sincere respect to police at the sharp end.


Mjb

[Derfred]

Too true, MJB.

You can't fix a problem unless you admit you have one.

[mickjoebill]

Originally Posted by Derfred

Too true, MJB.

You can't fix a problem unless you admit you have one.

Well said.

Career journalists are being sacked by the 100s so factual based investigations into performance of government and authorities will be missed.

Also, its fascinating that the performance (response times) of Victorian ambulance service was fair game for newspapers, but CFA is off limits.

Royal commision aside, you'll find it very hard to find local or Capitol city newspaper report detailing performance of local CFA or MFB crews.

But without the public understanding the true performance of emergency services how can they lobby for better training or funding?

The penny has dropped with Victorian government that security services can't be expected to thwart every potential nutter, so temporary bollards have been installed in Melbourne this week.

Better late than never.

Mjb

[Moneymoneymoneymoney]

Originally Posted by Minimbah

Even the Australian media respect the fact that CT/Special Foeces personnel are not to be filmed, or, at a minimum, their faces blurred. It is to protect the personal safety of those personnel and also so that their operational tactics are not disclosed to possible adversaries. That would be why they asked passengers to stop filming.

Learn your rights. It is not illegal to film the Australian Police state or federal under any circumstances

[tomcat264]

Originally Posted by KRviator

You're got that wrong, Sunfish. they don't want to be filmed. They don't want any evidence of ol' mate falling down the stairs. 6 times....

AFP first response is more like keep the area clear and call TRG

[tomcat264]

Originally Posted by wheels_down

90min wait.

I assume these Special Forces were all called out of bed at the odd hour? Or are these guys on standby 24/7?

Bit odd considering the AFP Facility is 500m away. The media didn't buy the Chief Commissioners excuses this morning for the wait either, got nailed.

You think AFP are TRG?