YBBN Approaches
With the KEEWI 8 approach, no matter where you're coming from, you'll fly to either KONDA, CARBA .. etc ZANEY, and from there, to SUNNY (Unless ZANEY or LOCKA)... then you're off to KEEWI. And that's the transition. Any of those, to KEEWI.
The chart describes the procedure to follow from there, for the ALPHA approach looking at the AIP chart you then track from KEEWI to BASIL, which is also the inital approach fix for the Localiser approach, and then conduct the localiser approach via the 24 mile arc from Cairns which takes you around to intercept the localiser. There's no ILS on runway 33, just the localiser, and the ALPHA is an entirely instrument procedure until you get to the end of the localiser approach. The STAR ALPHA procedure needs to be looked at alongside the localiser 33 instrument approach procedure which it feeds you into - you definitely dont just cut in! There's high terrain either side of the localiser course, it is depicted on the Localiser 33 approach charts, cutting in would take you into that terrain.
Theres also ITORT EYSAW APUSS ECATT heading west out of Townsville.
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Thanks De_flieger - that's really informative. Thanks for taking the time. I'll hop into my little virtual C172, fire up the little virtual Garmin, and see if I can try some of these.
Thanks so much!
Thanks so much!
Here's some more amusing waypoint names:
Off the coast of WA (110E): WONSA, JOLLY, SWAGY, CAMBS, BUIYA, BYLLA, BONGS, UNDER, ACOOL, EBARR, TREES
On the YBBN/YMML FIR boundary SE of Alice Springs: PUDYA, LIPPS, ALIDL, CLOZA, TOUDA, PHONE
Off the coast of WA (110E): WONSA, JOLLY, SWAGY, CAMBS, BUIYA, BYLLA, BONGS, UNDER, ACOOL, EBARR, TREES
On the YBBN/YMML FIR boundary SE of Alice Springs: PUDYA, LIPPS, ALIDL, CLOZA, TOUDA, PHONE
Another from the 'Only in Japan' file.
There used to be a STAR that had the following waypoints in sequence: CHARLIE, UNCLE, NIECE & TANGO.
There used to be a STAR that had the following waypoints in sequence: CHARLIE, UNCLE, NIECE & TANGO.
Last edited by Bleve; 23rd Mar 2017 at 06:18.
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I guess I'm slowly working out why I missed out on flying and landed up as a software developer...I'm a bitbslow.
I did 10 hours RA-Aus training at YCAB around 2010, and battled with the radio call, "Caboolture, Technam XXXX, lining up runway 06, Caboolture".
More nerves than anything maybe.
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It gets easier. Having trained at YCAB myself, CTAF calls are the easy calls for me. I'm surprised that as a software developer using common syntax all the time it wouldn't be easier for you. I feel that software development and code structure helped me during my early stages of training.
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Yeah, it was more a nerve issue. Just before pushing the button, freezing up and stuttering a bit. I'd say it in my head a few times before, but then over think something very simple.
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Thanks IsDon... That's really good info, which I'll now try and digest. So it seems 'digital' will completely kill off any form of analogue stuff? ILS, NDBs and VORs are all analogue radio items, right? And soon it will all be GPS based waypoints, and that Local Area Augmentation System thing?
So it seems 'digital' will completely kill off any form of analogue stuff? ILS, NDBs and VORs are all analogue radio items, right? And soon it will all be GPS based waypoints, and that Local Area Augmentation System thing?Join Date: Sep 1999
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Are you guys referring to the automation and assistance aircraft provide to the pilots? I was in the extremely lucky and fortunate position to get a seat in the cabin, next to a captain on how was down to Melbourne, do do a route back to Brisbane. So he was traveling with us normal people. He was reading something on an ipad and during the take off roll, to attempt to stir up a chat, I lent over to him and told him not to worry - these things are very safe. He laughed and replied, "You clearly don't know anything about them, then", which I thought was quite funny. But never the less, we chatted all the way from YBBN to YMML, and it was one of the most enjoyable, enlightening flights I've ever had. He was so willing to answer questions and give me an insight into what was happening up front. (He was a Virgin captain).
One thing I did ask was, if he feels the art of airmanship is being lost to automation, and he said it was. But he did say something on the lines of, promoting hand flying, but I was a bit unclear on what he meant. He did say that he tried to get the FO to fly the aircraft sometimes, and he does it himself. But I ran out of time to probe further.
Would that mean, not using autopilot, and flying the aircraft manually? I spend a lot of time on my PC flight sim, and with the little C172, I can climb to .. say 5,000 and then trim the plan out to stay at 5,000 within 30 feet up and down. With the bigger aircraft (737), I find it close on impossible. So find myself setting AP to keep me straight and level.
With a commercial flight, do pilots over try practice this? Or is the flight automated pretty much all the time. And is that what sheppey, IsDon and maggot are talking about?
Thinking of this, when I said my radio calls were the hard part. I lie. Instructor, 'Climb at 800fpm at 90kts'. Wow... that was fund for the first hour. PAT, if I recall? Power, Attitude, Trim'.. And then suddenly, level out and maintain 100kts. What? Brain melting.
One thing I did ask was, if he feels the art of airmanship is being lost to automation, and he said it was. But he did say something on the lines of, promoting hand flying, but I was a bit unclear on what he meant. He did say that he tried to get the FO to fly the aircraft sometimes, and he does it himself. But I ran out of time to probe further.
Would that mean, not using autopilot, and flying the aircraft manually? I spend a lot of time on my PC flight sim, and with the little C172, I can climb to .. say 5,000 and then trim the plan out to stay at 5,000 within 30 feet up and down. With the bigger aircraft (737), I find it close on impossible. So find myself setting AP to keep me straight and level.
With a commercial flight, do pilots over try practice this? Or is the flight automated pretty much all the time. And is that what sheppey, IsDon and maggot are talking about?
Thinking of this, when I said my radio calls were the hard part. I lie. Instructor, 'Climb at 800fpm at 90kts'. Wow... that was fund for the first hour. PAT, if I recall? Power, Attitude, Trim'.. And then suddenly, level out and maintain 100kts. What? Brain melting.
There is always an element of automation in most modern aircraft, even if you remove the AP, AT still exists. Hand Flying is quite dependant on weather, traffic, general experience, situation awareness and more often than none fatigue.
Have a read about the Jetstar blunder above Mildura in 2014. Shows how quickly things can go wrong for inexperienced pilots at high altitudes removing the automation side of the job.
I'm yet to work with another Australian Captain that discourages hand flying. Other countries, complete opposite, the automatics are the bible.
Have a read about the Jetstar blunder above Mildura in 2014. Shows how quickly things can go wrong for inexperienced pilots at high altitudes removing the automation side of the job.
I'm yet to work with another Australian Captain that discourages hand flying. Other countries, complete opposite, the automatics are the bible.
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There is always an element of automation in most modern aircraft, even if you remove the AP, AT still exists. Hand Flying is quite dependant on weather, traffic, general experience, situation awareness and more often than none fatigue.
Have a read about the Jetstar blunder above Mildura in 2014. Shows how quickly things can go wrong for inexperienced pilots at high altitudes removing the automation side of the job.
I'm yet to work with another Australian Captain that discourages hand flying. Other countries, complete opposite, the automatics are the bible.
Have a read about the Jetstar blunder above Mildura in 2014. Shows how quickly things can go wrong for inexperienced pilots at high altitudes removing the automation side of the job.
I'm yet to work with another Australian Captain that discourages hand flying. Other countries, complete opposite, the automatics are the bible.
With the Airbus there is always some form of automation watching your every move, even when you try to hand fly it's still there.
The Boeing isn't like that, (certainly the 767, it may be different with the newer Boeings).
If I was asked to explain the difference, in laymans terms, between an Airbus and a Boeing I'd explain it thus:
In a Boeing, if you wanted to roll the aeroplane upside down you could. The aeroplane would scream at you "Bank Angle, Bank Angle" leaving you in no doubt what you're doing, but if you want to do it, fill your boots. The pilot has final say.
In an Airbus you could get to 60 degrees Angle of Bank and then stop. No matter how hard you pushed the silly stick over it would just say, "No No Messieur, that's all I'm going to give you". The computer has final say. Now the computer is taking its information from all sorts of probes and other systems which may, in fact, be telling the computer complete bullsh1t. It's happened many times before, even in my airline. QF72 being a very public example. There is no way, short of direct law, of taking the computer out of the loop completely. Most of the time it behaves like an obedient copilot. Sometimes it behaves like its high on crack. Airbus arrogance even stated in the FCOM that Unusual Attitude recoveries didn't have to be trained as Airbus aircraft can't be stalled or put into unusual attitudes. Complete bollocks. We now train UA recovery in the simulator, as all responsible airlines should.
From what I've seen on the Airbus, most pilots are reluctant to hand fly because the aircraft is just not designed to be hand flown. Boeing pilots seem more inclined to hand fly because once you take control, you actually have it, completely. It's far more satisfying as a result.
Airbus Pilots- Flying Computer Managers
Crikey, even an airbus- 2wings, engines and flight controls; just fly it. My current and previous airbus both needed to be 'flown'.
Backseat bus time doesn't count
Backseat bus time doesn't count