Melbourne Air Traffic Control
Join Date: Sep 2017
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With the same strips of bitumen at Melbourne and a promised new runway for the last 35 years, it is only logical that congestion is an issue.
That an RNP approach could be flown with a range of speeds meant flow control was degraded.
Frequent visitors to London will be well aware that standard speeds and profile with related distance profiles are something that is used to enhance flow control, reduce confusion from different profiles and ultimately allows the airport to function at high capacity.
Add in neighbours, buffoon political 'idocracy' and other vested interests it is surprising anything happens at all.
That an RNP approach could be flown with a range of speeds meant flow control was degraded.
Frequent visitors to London will be well aware that standard speeds and profile with related distance profiles are something that is used to enhance flow control, reduce confusion from different profiles and ultimately allows the airport to function at high capacity.
Add in neighbours, buffoon political 'idocracy' and other vested interests it is surprising anything happens at all.
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Melbourne
Age: 68
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etrust,
- Wind back the privatization of Australian airports.
- Abandon full cost recovery at Airservices and allow them to actually provide, whats it called again? oh thats right, a service.
- Build the two parallel runways that Tullamarine was originally designed with ASAP.
- Re-institute the monthly consultations between ATC and Airline operations that used to workshop issues.
- Stop accepting mediocrity
Now I am well aware none of this is within the control of any one individual but right now Airservices and Airline Operations are like two non-intersecting Venn diagrams. Bit like the hospital that gets an award for administrative efficiency even though its got no patients.
Where do you see the system in ten years time?
End of rant.
- Wind back the privatization of Australian airports.
- Abandon full cost recovery at Airservices and allow them to actually provide, whats it called again? oh thats right, a service.
- Build the two parallel runways that Tullamarine was originally designed with ASAP.
- Re-institute the monthly consultations between ATC and Airline operations that used to workshop issues.
- Stop accepting mediocrity
Now I am well aware none of this is within the control of any one individual but right now Airservices and Airline Operations are like two non-intersecting Venn diagrams. Bit like the hospital that gets an award for administrative efficiency even though its got no patients.
Where do you see the system in ten years time?
End of rant.
3 mile final to a minima of 250 feet at every major airport in Australia, including secondary airports. Then they evaporated. Why?
Seeing theres a few ATC'ers watching the thread, what's the go with track shortening when its quiet? 3 times last month I noticed minimal radio chatter and requested track shortening to both 16 and 34. Approved it was, but I was surprised no one really seems to offer any more. Are you waiting for us to ask cause it does feel that way?
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Melbourne
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Gear, I dont know what type you're on but the B737-800 approaches worked just fine. Everywhere. ATC was the issue. The approaches into airports like Hobart were a dream. All now a distant memory. Go figure......
Perhaps in the interest of maximum capacity, they found them too difficult to be able to sequence with everyone who can’t do them?
There are other people in the world to worry about other than yourself at Qantas buddy. Or is that how you all think?
There are other people in the world to worry about other than yourself at Qantas buddy. Or is that how you all think?
Join Date: Apr 2011
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I don’t know Melbourne’s specifics. But in my experience elsewhere short curved RNPs are great for number one in the sequence or multiple in a row, but the moment you get someone unable to accept the RNP or are trying to use them from different directions (see YPAD RWY 05 RNAV X / W) you will lose capacity.
Because the approach is curved, you have to pull the trigger on the approach clearance before the aircraft has turned into the final approach wind. You then don’t have the ability to vector without canceling the approach. It’s very difficult to use speed control effectively when aircraft are pointing in different directions experiencing different winds and different closure rates. Thus you need to play it conservatively and that reduces capacity.
Ask for direct tracking if you want it. We’ve been told
numerous times just leave you alone unless it’s needed.
Because the approach is curved, you have to pull the trigger on the approach clearance before the aircraft has turned into the final approach wind. You then don’t have the ability to vector without canceling the approach. It’s very difficult to use speed control effectively when aircraft are pointing in different directions experiencing different winds and different closure rates. Thus you need to play it conservatively and that reduces capacity.
Ask for direct tracking if you want it. We’ve been told
numerous times just leave you alone unless it’s needed.
It’s an interesting concept these days.
Doesn’t seem to matter if you can see the runway or not. ATC decide how you are going to get to it!
It wasn’t always that way!
Doesn’t seem to matter if you can see the runway or not. ATC decide how you are going to get to it!
It wasn’t always that way!
Join Date: Sep 2018
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With all the technology of today considering the capability of what NASA did in '69 we struggle to arrange to have the latest techno machines sequenced to land during lousy weather in sucsession, you would think by now that it should be safer & easier than ever, but I regress, this is 'Straya' after all!
Join Date: Sep 2018
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Oh I don't know, I do fly international Ops & to my mind we are two centuries behind efficiency never lone professional rules!
We have the most benign WX, we have two fifths of stuff all traffic in the air compared to the rest of the educated world yet we have several brick walls in which we bang up against daily, one being corrupt politicians, another our aviation regulators who are hell bent on making Straya the best 3rd word country for ALL forms of transport & we are GOOD at it, in fact we excel in stupidity!!!!!
We have the most benign WX, we have two fifths of stuff all traffic in the air compared to the rest of the educated world yet we have several brick walls in which we bang up against daily, one being corrupt politicians, another our aviation regulators who are hell bent on making Straya the best 3rd word country for ALL forms of transport & we are GOOD at it, in fact we excel in stupidity!!!!!
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_airports_under_construction/
We at least have one new major airport under construction, Brisbane’s new runway and the winner at Wellcamp. The only major new airport in the west, Berlin, has been an unmitigated disaster.
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Looks like Melbourne ATC is at it again. Work to Rule, Industrial Action? Last night wind 140/12, cloud no factor, no use of runway 27= 30 min delay. Even when the ATIS wind changed to 160/12 still no utilisation of runway 27. When questioned ATC just said “not tonight”. This is ridiculous. Not only are the public impacted but also the pilots and cabin crew who deserve more time with their families at home. I bet the guys and gals in the tower sign off on time. I haven’t signed off once on time in the last month in Melb. Time to get the greenies involved and highlight the extra CO2 emissions MELBOURNE ATC or even AirServices Australia are responsible for? When the weather is sh&te no reasonable pilot should ever question ATC and delays, but when it’s good weather this BS has to stop.
Left leaning politics and endless bureaucracy.
infrastructure hold ups driven by do gooders with no concept of the collateral damage that they are causing every day.
The problems in MEL are related to the Airservices ruleset for runway allocation with tailwind and a lack of investment in a second north/south runway by the airport owner because it costs more than and brings in less cash than a new carpark/terminal shops.
Greenies have caused their their share of issues around the place but I can’t see their hand in the current YMML mess.
a lack of investment in a second north/south runway by the airport owner because it costs more than and brings in less cash than a new carpark/terminal shops.
About 10 days ago we were stuck with extended holding with a wind of 040/10. An enquiry was made as to the availability of landing on Rwy 09 with the response being that the flow was fixed for the next few hours. To be sort of fair it was a busy Friday evening and the northerly wind was forecast to increase.
What are the real reasons for not using RWY 09?
Also, I can’t believe the taxiway works are not 24hrs a day, seven days a week. This is a major road block at the moment for pilots and controllers alike.
What are the real reasons for not using RWY 09?
Also, I can’t believe the taxiway works are not 24hrs a day, seven days a week. This is a major road block at the moment for pilots and controllers alike.
clark y, I'm not sure what advantage you think would be gained by you using R09 when everyone else is using R16. It doesn't create an additional landing slot so there's no advantage to the overall sequence meaning your landing time will remain the same. You won't be given a better landing time because it would mean pushing everyone else back a slot which isn't fair. You very definitely wouldn't suddenly jump forward in the landing sequence. If there was some advantage to the overall sequence it would be a different mater.
ML has to be the most painful place to fly into on the face of the earth. I dont know what the rules and policies are that create this issue, but something has to give. CAVOK, **** all wind, min speed, 250 on descent hold at Lizzy.
GDP needs to go in the bin too. LST-MEL. Sit on the ground waiting for your slot time, meet it, take off, climbing through 8000 ft "min speed, time at Waren X + 20 mins". If you knew that early I had 20 minutes holding, why the F did you not adjust my COBT?! Its a 40 minute flight!
Honestly it'd be faster rowing a canoe.
GDP needs to go in the bin too. LST-MEL. Sit on the ground waiting for your slot time, meet it, take off, climbing through 8000 ft "min speed, time at Waren X + 20 mins". If you knew that early I had 20 minutes holding, why the F did you not adjust my COBT?! Its a 40 minute flight!
Honestly it'd be faster rowing a canoe.
ML has to be the most painful place to fly into on the face of the earth. I dont know what the rules and policies are that create this issue, but something has to give. CAVOK, **** all wind, min speed, 250 on descent hold at Lizzy.
GDP needs to go in the bin too. LST-MEL. Sit on the ground waiting for your slot time, meet it, take off, climbing through 8000 ft "min speed, time at Waren X + 20 mins". If you knew that early I had 20 minutes holding, why the F did you not adjust my COBT?! Its a 40 minute flight!
Honestly it'd be faster rowing a canoe.
GDP needs to go in the bin too. LST-MEL. Sit on the ground waiting for your slot time, meet it, take off, climbing through 8000 ft "min speed, time at Waren X + 20 mins". If you knew that early I had 20 minutes holding, why the F did you not adjust my COBT?! Its a 40 minute flight!
Honestly it'd be faster rowing a canoe.
I just want to have a push back without re doing the figures for a different runway. One day someone’s going to get hung for missing a step in the runway change.
I’m certain it’s the system and not the workers at the coal face but I doubt people (airlines included) realise the risks associated with incessant runway and ATIS changes.
Coming in the other night from Sydney listening to the ARBEY this speed up slow down I thought “this has to be one of the biggest contributors to fatigue in flight I can think of”. Next it was us, on decent heads down trying to make the box give us the numbers, awful. Heads need to be up but we had no option.