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Virgin Australia recruitment

Old 2nd Jan 2018, 11:32
  #461 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: 3rd rock from the sun
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Easy fix to that, take it to FWA
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Old 2nd Jan 2018, 11:51
  #462 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Home
Posts: 894
Brakerider
What a patronising attitude to aspiring pilots that you and Inboundd have!
Yes Airlines do need a mix of experience levels who will learn by experience. 500 hours is fine with the correct training, to get into the RHS of a 737.
A number of large airlines (Legacy and LoCos) in the UK put cadets with 250+ hours from Flying School into RHS of A320/737. Its all in the training, not necessarily amassing hundreds of hours in GA.
A relative of mine was a wide body Capt. in the RAF with 1800 hrs total flying. Female too. (Tristar/A330)
Operated in demanding situations far more difficult than routine airline ops.

Last edited by cessnapete; 2nd Jan 2018 at 15:47.
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Old 2nd Jan 2018, 18:37
  #463 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Lower North Shore
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Originally Posted by cessnapete View Post
Brakerider
What a patronising attitude to aspiring pilots that you and Inboundd have!
Yes Airlines do need a mix of experience levels who will learn by experience. 500 hours is fine with the correct training, to get into the RHS of a 737.
A number of large airlines (Legacy and LoCos) in the UK put cadets with 250+ hours from Flying School into RHS of A320/737. Its all in the training, not necessarily amassing hundreds of hours in GA.
A relative of mine was a wide body Capt. in the RAF with 1800 hrs total flying. Female too. (Tristar/A330)
Operated in demanding situations far more difficult than routine airline ops.
Make it 500, 250 or even 150 hours. All options are a great big slap in the face to all those that've worked hard in GA, ticked all the "right boxes" only to be told 3200 hours and 700 multi engine isn't enough.
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Old 2nd Jan 2018, 20:23
  #464 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: elsewhere
Posts: 173
It is what it is.
The little feedback received is frustrating.

Am I close to where I need to be, or do I now need to go and get multi crew time in something plus 5.7t?

Can anyone who has gone through the whole process shed some light?
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Old 2nd Jan 2018, 21:19
  #465 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: here
Posts: 7
Originally Posted by Flyboy1987 View Post
It is what it is.
The little feedback received is frustrating.

Am I close to where I need to be, or do I now need to go and get multi crew time in something plus 5.7t?

Can anyone who has gone through the whole process shed some light?
At my assessment day all the other candidates were flying DHC8, ATR or other Jets. So I strongly suspect having multi-crew time in a similar aircraft would make your application more competitive.
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Old 2nd Jan 2018, 22:11
  #466 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Downunder
Posts: 12
Originally Posted by morno View Post
Easy fix to that, take it to FWA
Not that easy morno as the pilot reps from a particular union sent out correspondence to the ATR pilot group stating they would not represent any of the ATR pilots should they decide to lodge a dispute. The remaining ATR pilots were thrown well and truely under the bus by there co workers, friends, the ones they trusted and thought were there to represent and protect them

These chaps secured themselves 737 positions.

Last edited by Livinthedream320; 3rd Jan 2018 at 06:13.
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Old 3rd Jan 2018, 10:38
  #467 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Asia
Age: 37
Posts: 118
My group was mostly regional crew. Others may have to wait until the (regional) hallways have been hoovered before getting a call. Apparently 150 needed this year so anything's possible!
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Old 3rd Jan 2018, 10:56
  #468 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Vietnam
Posts: 1,246
Today I heard of the "Qantas" effect.

Apparently many people held out for years to get a shot at Qantas mainline. Well most of those people didn't get in so now Virgin has had a tsunami of applicants with high experience because they had been biding their time for years.
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Old 3rd Jan 2018, 19:21
  #469 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: down
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Originally Posted by Gligg View Post
My group was mostly regional crew. Others may have to wait until the (regional) hallways have been hoovered before getting a call. Apparently 150 needed this year so anything's possible!
150 this year seems like a hell of a lot! Their training dept will be flat out. I wonder if they have many pilots in the holding pool like our friends at qantaslink like to do?
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Old 4th Jan 2018, 01:01
  #470 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in the stars... looking at the gutter.
Posts: 402
I would certainly expect VA to take another 100 pilots. I could believe 150.

Plenty of greybeard retirements coming up, a few SOs and younger FOs see a brighter future at QF, and many of us middle aged captains are looking abroad. Not to mention the growing debt of pilot annual leave and long service leave, and the training pipeline will be open for some months yet.

I have to speak against the assertion that ATR pilots will be there for 5-10 years. That's utter nonsense. Sure people are recruited off the street onto jets before them, but the ATR crew will always hold a higher seniority number. What's the alternative? every recruit gets 3 months on the ATR then moves on?
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Old 4th Jan 2018, 03:55
  #471 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 138
Well Goat what good is “seniority” if it doesn’t get you positions you’ve bid for in line with the GDOJ? Explain to the ATR pilots how they have seniority but new joins will make a lot more money. I’d take money over a pseudo-seniority system. I imagine it’s easy when you’re sitting in the jet to just tell the ATR crew to wait, but wait how long?? Hiring booms don't last forever and once those domestic 73 slots are taken they could be taken for many years.

5-10 years is completely accurate if you consider the cap the company is enforcing. If you have 70 pilots and you only let 7 per year go to the jet fleet you are potentially looking at 10 years. 5 years is taking into consideration anomalies. how many have they recruited onto the ATR in the last 12 months?

Last edited by 206greaser; 4th Jan 2018 at 06:08. Reason: more civil tone.
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Old 4th Jan 2018, 06:52
  #472 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Western Pacific
Posts: 716
The ATR fleet operation needs to be protected & it can't be flooded with new recruits due to experience levels. Low experience on type & low experience in the Virgin SOP's can cause an increase in risk. There have already been incidents on the type that indicate an increased safety risk.

In days gone by this problem was addressed with bypass pay. Obviously that is an expense that the company would prefer to avoid. Perhaps the respective union should be addressing this issue.
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Old 4th Jan 2018, 21:28
  #473 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Asia
Posts: 87
ATR Pilots

Holding people back in their careers due to lack of planning and execution in order to minimise risks is a very shortsighted approach.
It appears seniority plus ten percent cap equates to a noose around the neck and a hinderence to ones career progression, personal development and livelihood.
This then leads to a very agitated, disconnected, demotivated workforce and this is how the threat arises.
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Old 4th Jan 2018, 21:38
  #474 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 10
Originally Posted by Goat Whisperer View Post
I have to speak against the assertion that ATR pilots will be there for 5-10 years. That's utter nonsense.
This is my first post on PPRuNe in years, but the stupidity of this comment truly made my blood boil.

I'm just about to graduate to 7th year ATR captain and guess what.. STILL STUCK HERE!!!! Likely won't get to leave till 2019. I've jumped all the hoops, did all the right things, passed all the retarded interviews and sim checks years ago and all we've received as a reward are lies and underhanded delay tactics from a management team who are nothing more than tricksters.

The ATR fleet is a prison and it truly sucks being a second class citizen at Virgin Australia.

5 years on the ATR is a very "uptimistic" estimate. The whole fleet is under a 10% cap. That means 10 years!!! That's the reality. The company loves to crap on and lie to your face and say they'll let more than 10% go, but its all just lies to stop people from resigning. It has never happened and there's no reason to believe it ever will.

Now they've decided to put external hires and cadets ahead of even those ATR crew who have been offered positions on the 737 6 months ago, but were never given a start date and are still stuck on the leper fleet.

The company has hired a total of 2 new pilots for the ATR in the last 6 months, but I don't know of a single captain who has less than 1000 hours of leave accrued because the company has not approved leave in 4 [email protected]!ng years!!!!

A few facts about the ATR.
  • A new FO WILL BE STUCK on the ATR for at least 5-10 years earning less than the national average wage until a command opportunity comes up.
  • A command might become available in under 5 years if they're lucky, but I've never heard of anyone getting it in less than 4 to date. If the industry slows down, commands will be non existent.
  • If you do want to escape the ATR you have to do a full interview process the same as any external applicant. That now includes going to the Fokker 100 even tho the company has promised that would never happen. More lies.
  • Being an ATR pilot means you cannot apply for jobs at Tiger (you are considered an internal applicant and the answer is NO).
  • The rosters are absolute rubbish. Most duty's are around 10 hours long, but you're lucky to do 3 to 4 hours flying during the duty. All you do is sit at the airport fighting sleep. To give you an idea my roster recently had a 4 day block, which totals 41 duty hours. It's not a one off!!
  • We are not protected by CAO48 because of the exemption. This means we are regularly rostered duties of 11:30.
  • We are not protected by Virgins FRMS rules because we are under the Skywest EBA.
  • I could go on all day because this is just the tip of the iceberg. I haven't even touched on the cluster [email protected]$ that is the Brisbane base closure and the way crew were repeatedly lied to and mislead there.
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Old 4th Jan 2018, 23:47
  #475 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: England
Posts: 1
Originally Posted by Aussie-kiwi View Post
donkey767: One day is the SIM. The other is a panel interview and group exercise. PM me if you want a rundown.
Hey, any information you have on the interview and sim assessment that you have would be much appreciated. Cheers.
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Old 5th Jan 2018, 00:59
  #476 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 138
Well there’s an honest appraisal of life on the ATR.

As I said earlier hold out for a jet position or start looking at real estate in Canberra!
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Old 5th Jan 2018, 01:07
  #477 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: The further
Posts: 16
Just wondering, silly question, why are you ATR guys still there? There is an absolute sh*t tonne of jobs going pretty much everywhere I look. Here and abroad.
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Old 5th Jan 2018, 02:20
  #478 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: BBN
Posts: 163
REX hiring DEC Krusty? Like Shoddy I'm tired of the same old stories from VA management.
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Old 5th Jan 2018, 02:46
  #479 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 10
Originally Posted by KRUSTY 34 View Post
Hi shoddy88.

Sounds grim. Word around the campfire is that the ATR experiment has only around 2 years of life left?

We all know about assumption, but what do you think?
Hi Krusty 34,

There are indeed a lot of rumours, but the truth is nobody knows. The only thing Virgin does well is to be completely non transparent. It's a bit like a mushroom farm, you get kept in the dark and fed sh!t.

I think there may be a lot of wishful thinking here. Pretty much everyone (over 95% of crew) would love to see the ATR operation just die. The hope is that we could move over to other fleets under the Virgin umbrella. It's a nice dream that helps people stay sane. It's entirely plausible, but I can't help thinking it sounds too good to be true. I suppose it depends how "uptimistic" you are.

The strongest rumour is that they're waiting to see what the ATSB has to say regarding FVR. It seems that the higher powers are looking to prove that the ATR is unsafe.

Another rumour is that they're going to outsource the flying to Alliance, but we're just waiting for them to get their ducks in a row. Anything is possible.

Originally Posted by Titan Slave
Just wondering, silly question, why are you ATR guys still there? There is an absolute sh*t tonne of jobs going pretty much everywhere I look. Here and abroad.
It's not a silly question at all. Thing is most ATR crew have left, but remember the company just cut the fleet back from 14 to 6. That's less than half the fleet so even though lots of people left, there's still just enough pilots to scrape by. Even so there are ATR's parked against the fence due lack of crew.

Here is a list of a few reasons why there are still people here.
  • Have a read of what I wrote above to Krusty. There is a chance that this whole nightmare will come to an end and that gives people pause before leaving.
  • Some people like living in Canberra so this job is their only viable choice.
  • A lot of people have failed to get into Q or J* and going anywhere else is a pay-cut (especially for Captains). Unless you go overseas, but then family becomes an issue for some (most).
  • Most of our FO's are Cadets now and they have no escape option because they have no command time.
  • A lot of us believed the lies they told and thought there would be progression. I'm one of the fools who falls into this category.

The list goes on....
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Old 5th Jan 2018, 04:43
  #480 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Asia
Posts: 87
Shoddy88
It saddens me to hear your story of your experience on the ATR. I do know that you're legit in what you're saying as I have many friends at VAA not on the ATR and have echoed the same story to me. I also know as a fact that a few of your guys/girls currently upgrading to command are pursuing other opportunities and that is a sad state for any company to be in.I was in a similar situation as you over 20 years ago and walked and have never looked back. The industry is just starting to warm up with a goliath of opportunities coming your way.
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