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Old 24th Sep 2016, 09:26   #21 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Besides the recent ex cadets that have joined in the last couple of months and in the next couple of months, there has not been recruitment in mainline since early 2009...
Most if not all pilots in mainline are now over the age of 30.
If in the future you are successful in the selection process and join mainline, AND you are around the age of 25 or even less, think long term regarding your career.
Its all about seniority and potential opportunities. If you join in your mid twenties, chances are you could possibly be very senior in your mid forties with a seniority in the vicinity of top 300. That will mean captain on a fleet of your choice. Something for jetstar, efa, jetconnect, network, airlines of png, GA or any other company a 20 something year old is currently working for.
Yes the music may stop, One cannot predict what happens in aviation. We all know it works in cycles but from a long term point of view is there a better gig in Australian aviation?
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Old 24th Sep 2016, 22:43   #22 (permalink)
 
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I agree with you ohfa, if you are in your mid twenties and get in at the start of the recruitment wave it's a great career move, but what I am trying to convey is that is a limited pool of pilots these days in this demographic.. With the amount of other Airline jobs around Qantas isn't as attractive as it used to be, and the lower wage for new S/O's on the 787 is part of this.

At the start of the last big recruitment we had ansett fall over, and with it Kendall's and a variety of other small airlines. Every second new person you spoke to here seemed to be from one of them, and the only other option was Virgin Blue which was just starting. Fast forward to today a lot of pilots in their late 20's and thirties are already flying jet equipment on high wages as relative senior F/O's or even Captains. Many are happy with their lot, and don't see any gain in moving to Qantas and taking a demotion and reduced pay for an unspecified period of time.

Look at the posts here with Qlink using 457 visas, there just isn't the pool of pilots there used to be. I think they will get a huge amount of applicants of course, but not the numbers they got 10-15 years ago.

As I have stated before I would recommend to anyone to apply to work here, and it's fantastic to finally see some new faces about to start....it's like a grey hair convention here at the moment !!!
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Old 25th Sep 2016, 03:04   #23 (permalink)
 
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Look at the age demographic. Lots of young Captains in Virgin and Jetstar. Qantas has a much older average, even many First Officers will leave in the next ten years or so. About half the FOs I fly with are in their 50s.
Qantas Management always stuff up numbers in a cyclical way. Plenty are getting close to running out of hours, all leave gone etc.
This is likely to be a large recruitment, more 787s will be ordered eventually but over 100 new Pilots are needed for the current fleet without allowing for second officers on the 787.
I would think anyone in their 20s or 30s would do well to apply, I for one will be retiring early in a few years.
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Old 25th Sep 2016, 05:23   #24 (permalink)
 
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Interesting point of clarification about the expressions of interest sent by a Manager further down the food chain than the CP. The EOI is only open for two weeks and it is not a guarantee of an interview.
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Old 25th Sep 2016, 06:51   #25 (permalink)
Keg

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Hawk Circle and others who are interested. These are excerpts of PMs that I have sent to people recently to answer questions about pay and progression.

First year pay is a little hard to calculate accurately as it depends a little on aircraft type, what our divisor (scheduled flying hours) is for each 8 week period and so on. There are slightly different increases year on year for each aircraft too.

As an absolute base minimum, as at 1 Jul 17 a 787 S/O will earn $105K. The 787 rates go up 2% a year for 4 years. The annual 3% pay rises we tend to get will be in addition to this 2% so effectively 5% a year for the first 4 years.

An A330 S/O in the first year will earn $95K. Based on current hours though the 330 S/O will earn an extra $10K- if not more. The S/O rate jumps up by 7% the first half of the 2nd year, and then another 16.5% in the second half of the second year then 3% a year after that. The annual 3% pay rises that we tend to get are on top of this so you're essentially getting a 6% pay rise each year after year 2.

Allowances will add a little bit on top of that- perhaps $15-20K depending on your trips and work rate.

The big unknown over the next few years is progression off the 787 or A330 as S/Os onto the 744 or A380. The overtime on both those fleets can add an additional 30-40%. Of course if the flying mix changes on those fleets- particularly the A380 then that could change things considerably.

If you want to get out of the back seat ASAP then the 737 is likely to be the only short term promotion available. The 737 has bases in all the state capitals around Australia except TAS and NT but don't expect to earn much more than you will be earning as a 5-6 year S/O on the 787 or A330.

Future progression? There are 400 pilots currently on long haul fleets (out of 1300 total) who hit 65 within the next decade- although only 100 or so in the next 5 years with 300 in the five years after that.

I have no visibility of demographics of the 600ish pilots on SH fleets. Anyone else? Is there a SH bid book equivalent?

Anyway, hope that assists.
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Old 25th Sep 2016, 08:38   #26 (permalink)
 
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Thank you Keg. Just a clarification regarding 737 pay. You CAN earn significantly more on the 737 than an A330 (and presumably 787) S/O. Won't be much more than an A380 S/O, but that may change in the future once the 787 takes (again only an assumption) much of the lucrative flying.
The incentive payment is icing on the cake.

Just for clarification.
Its much better financially on the 737 than many realise.

Good luck to all, and I too don't think Qantas will have any trouble attracting suitable applicants.

Last edited by Chad Gates; 25th Sep 2016 at 11:49. Reason: Formatting and tone.
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Old 25th Sep 2016, 08:45   #27 (permalink)
Keg

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Thanks Chad Gates. Been a long time since I've talked pay with a 737 F/O.
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Old 26th Sep 2016, 02:46   #28 (permalink)
 
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Rumours around about more international flying for the A330. Increase in frequencies as well as a possible new destination. This will require 100 new recruits to that fleet.
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Old 26th Sep 2016, 04:23   #29 (permalink)
 
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Rumours around about more international flying for the A330. Increase in frequencies as well as a possible new destination. This will require 100 new recruits to that fleet.
Recruits needed for the current flying plan
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Old 26th Sep 2016, 07:14   #30 (permalink)
 
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Rumours around about more international flying for the A330. Increase in frequencies as well as a possible new destination. This will require 100 new recruits to that fleet.
I think it's been said the first 100 new recruits will be going to the 330 before any are recruited onto the 787
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Old 26th Sep 2016, 08:24   #31 (permalink)
Keg

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Part of the question is what is happening to the 80 or so S/Os already on the A330. I don't reckon we need 180 of them on the 330 so some of them are obviously leaving the fleet in significant numbers between now and July. Curioser and curioser.
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Old 26th Sep 2016, 08:37   #32 (permalink)
 
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Keg,

I've heard around 30 extra training slots to be announced this week, with the following residuals making a total of about 70. Obviously this will clean out some of the A330 S/O ranks, which in turn makes sense that they are boosting new pilot recruitment numbers.

If I was joining as an S/O now though, I'd forget about a sideways move to the 744 or 380 completely. It seems the guys there will need a crowbar to be prised away from the back seat of those machines!

As for 737 pay, I concur with Chad. With divisiors creeping up and bonus/incentive payments, many 737 F/Os are making $200k+.

Cheers
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Old 26th Sep 2016, 10:52   #33 (permalink)
 
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Currently about 63 or so S/Os on the A330. We realistically need about 80 S/Os for the current flying, maybe a tad more with Melb to Narita starting back up. With only about 6 or 7 A330 S/Os due to leave in the training year (that'll change of course with the new vacancies to be advertised), the fact that they are/will be recruiting quite a large number straight onto the A330 suggests that they are happy to initially have an excess of S/O's on the A330 for a short while and as guys/gals leave in the next couple of years the numbers will sort themselves out, or they are planning on even more international flying for the 330. Brisbane-Seoul is a rumour I keep hearing as is a service back to Beijing.
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Old 26th Sep 2016, 12:09   #34 (permalink)
Keg

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I reckon it'll be a LOT more than 30 Transition Layer. Rumours suggest a few on the 744 and 20+ A330 commands and 20+ A330 F/O slots as well as potentially some 737 slots. With residuals to flow on from there it wouldn't surprise me if this 'half year' allocation is equally as big (or bigger) than the allocation published in June.

Either way, nice to be talking promotion and movement again rather than the dark days of 2009- 2015.

Completely forgot about the 737 bonus too! Handy little earner the last couple of years.

Heard a crazy rumour of a South Pacific island for the A330 too. I reckon Beijing will happen but possibly not until the 787 can release some capacity from elsewhere.
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Old 26th Sep 2016, 12:14   #35 (permalink)
 
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If only the 200s had a crew rest

And we had more crew
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Old 26th Sep 2016, 13:41   #36 (permalink)
 
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10-12 per month for "foreseeable future". Impeccable source.
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Old 26th Sep 2016, 23:36   #37 (permalink)
 
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10-12 per month for "foreseeable future". Impeccable source.
Heard exactly the same.

Could be the same impeccable source.

Bring it on.
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Old 26th Sep 2016, 23:45   #38 (permalink)
 
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Any timings for as to when and if applications will open to new externals?
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Old 26th Sep 2016, 23:45   #39 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by maggot View Post
If only the 200s had a crew rest

And we had more crew
I heard a couple may get a re-reconfig!
The look on one of our "leaders" face last year at the "no step" course when I pointed out that the 200 has bigger fuel tanks was priceless! I don't think anyone had told him.

They do seem to be doing something about crew finally.
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Old 27th Sep 2016, 00:50   #40 (permalink)
 
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I heard a couple may get a re-reconfig!
The look on one of our "leaders" face last year at the "no step" course when I pointed out that the 200 has bigger fuel tanks was priceless! I don't think anyone had told him.

They do seem to be doing something about crew finally.
Just not 7A
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