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MERGED: Alan's still not happy......

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MERGED: Alan's still not happy......

Old 16th Aug 2014, 21:56
  #4721 (permalink)  
 
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Why is Jetstar NZ a fail, it is profitable and has bought low fares to the NZ population. I find it interesting that when a couple of people made the mistake of wishing Qantas out of business lots of Qantas peeps got very upset that people were wanting to see them out of work. Yet on so many posts here people are wishing for ALL those Jetstar employees and families to be pit out of work. Yes Jetstar has had an effect on big brother but to blame it for ALL Qantas' problems is too simplistic and an 'easy' out.
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Old 16th Aug 2014, 22:42
  #4722 (permalink)  
 
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..................

Last edited by virgindriver; 16th Aug 2014 at 22:43. Reason: Sorry, I shouldn't say that
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Old 16th Aug 2014, 23:35
  #4723 (permalink)  
 
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JQ Asia - fail
JQ NZ - fail
JQ Japan - fail
JQ Vietnam - fail
JQ Int - shrinking massively, + ex QF routes (mel - sin, syd - hnl, cns - nrt, cns kix) still a fail
JQ HKG - stop it hurts
Red Q - Fail
Dual AOC - Fail

I do note the change of language from the likes of Strambie. Stating QF mainline may return to more "premium leisure" destinations. The first two were Gold Coast & Hamilton Island.

Additionally deploying the A330 on SYD-HNL & also increasing it's frequency.

There's been talk of new mainline destinations & returning to previously serviced destinations. It'll be interesting to see how it pans out.
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Old 17th Aug 2014, 02:06
  #4724 (permalink)  
 
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Yes, Jetstar NZ is profitable. Costs of $24.3M with income of $26.8M equals a profit of $2.5M. However the source of income for Jetstar NZ is Jetstar Australia ie. JQ AU pays JQ NZ for labour costs + 10% which is then paid back as profit.
As far as the JQ NZ operation being profitable for the QF group, who knows...
I don't think anyone is wishing anyone else out of a job, but questioning the management that might end in everyone being out of a job is probably appropriate.
If the business case of being the cheapest in the market to make the most money was the right one, then surely the results should be coming in by now...
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Old 17th Aug 2014, 02:42
  #4725 (permalink)  
 
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Even more reason

Even more reason to sell Jetstar and set it aside of the Qantas Group....see if it actually can survive...which everyone except QF Management and the media that swallow the constant loads of accounting rubbish..
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Old 17th Aug 2014, 02:49
  #4726 (permalink)  
 
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Goddamnslacker

Even more reason to sell Jetstar and set it aside of the Qantas Group....see if it actually can survive...which everyone except QF Management and the media that swallow the constant loads of accounting rubbish..
Only problem with this theory, is that QANTAS has been left in such a perilously weak state from years of neglect and incompetence, that jetstar may end up (with decent management and an improved product) being the perfect competitor to squash QANTAS.
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Old 17th Aug 2014, 02:57
  #4727 (permalink)  
 
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"Only problem with this theory, is that QANTAS has been left in such a perilously weak state from years of neglect and incompetence, that Jetstar may end up (with decent management and an improved product) being the perfect competitor to squash QANTAS."

I wouldnt say competitor more like a constant Leach....9 A320 basking in the Sun in France, 6 regular A320 on the ground in Japan...787 utilisation to the point of ridiculous for a new type...yeah if competition is driving you to bankruptcy due to one part of the "Qantas Group" bleeding you dry then yes..
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Old 17th Aug 2014, 02:58
  #4728 (permalink)  
 
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The genie is out of the bottle now.

If Qantas sells Jetstar, it'll be to cashed up foreign buyers. More than likely the Chinese. These guys don't play the game on short term outlooks and quarterley statements. They play with the next generation in mind. What's best for china.

One thing is for sure, there will be no more protection of Qantas on its highest yielding routes. Jetstar will crush Qantas. It has a cheaper cost base and if it goes upmarket and even rebrands it'll be a big headache.

If Qantas keep Jetstar, it'll probably crush Qantas too.
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Old 17th Aug 2014, 03:41
  #4729 (permalink)  
 
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More bad news being leaked to the AFR, pre 28th August Results?

The AFR is reporting today the possibility of another 2000 to 3000 jobs to go on top of the 5000 already announced.
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Old 17th Aug 2014, 05:15
  #4730 (permalink)  
Keg

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fish

That last one explicitly denied by Joyce about two hours ago. Words like stability, looking to the future, setting up for growth, were just some of the phrases. Said no more job losses beyond what was announced. Well, that's today's plan anyway. Time will tell I guess.

Indicated that the 28th will be the announcement about future direction re frequent flyers sell off, splitting AOCs, etc to do possibly do a virgin and so on. He seemed positive about the future and he freely admitted that he had been worried over the last couple of years but is now much more hopeful. Reckoned things were starting to turn for both domestic and international.

Said things are softer at Jetstar. I just figured they must be in EBA negotiations.

I guess we'll know in a couple of weeks how honest he was being.
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Old 17th Aug 2014, 05:36
  #4731 (permalink)  
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What...Joyce is talking, really?
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Old 17th Aug 2014, 05:38
  #4732 (permalink)  
 
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Were his lips moving?

Last edited by porch monkey; 17th Aug 2014 at 12:38.
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Old 17th Aug 2014, 05:51
  #4733 (permalink)  
 
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Keg,

Just out of interest do you have a link or reference for Joyce's statements just now (or were they internal)?

Cheers,
PM
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Old 17th Aug 2014, 06:14
  #4734 (permalink)  
 
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Qantas plan sparks cuts concerns

Qantas Airways plans to slash the cost base of its ailing international business by nearly one-third over the next three years, in a move that has sparked speculation of further capacity cuts and job losses.
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Old 17th Aug 2014, 06:41
  #4735 (permalink)  
 
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Said things are softer at Jetstar.
Well, better pump it up by giving them more Qantas routes.
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Old 17th Aug 2014, 06:42
  #4736 (permalink)  
 
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beat me to it 600ft-lb I find this piece most interesting
‘They have more or less cut to the bone already’

An analyst said he struggled to comprehend how Qantas could cut $1 billion from its international division without further route withdrawals and job cuts, even though the airline has so far played down the prospect of more wholesale network changes.


“They will probably announce they will cut another 2000 or 3000 [jobs] on top of the 5000 already announced,” the analyst said.
Another analyst said he was not factoring in all of Qantas’s planned cost savings in his figures – and neither was the market – because “we just don’t have the clarity to break it down”.
Qantas’s current plan is to cut its fleet of fuel-guzzling 747s to nine over the next 18 months, but further acceleration of retirements cannot be ruled out.


However, the airline’s fleet of A330s does not have the range to replace 747s on long routes like Sydney-Los Angeles-New York and Sydney-Johannesburg and Qantas does not have enough A380s available to fill the gap.


Former Qantas chief economist Tony Webber said: “I think they have more or less cut [routes] to the bone already. The problem is actually not in costs at the moment, it is revenue.”
my bold
Qantas plan sparks cuts concerns
I also find interesting what Jamie Freed says in the video towards the end..

"even after the EK alliance it has gotten worse"
Now a mainstream view, another "fail" to be added to above fail list posts..about 30 sec in the video below...



It feels like he just made it up! No doubt now the management's flawed strategy has damaged the LH business, the board has failed spectacularly in my view. I think LC will be under huge pressure come AGM time.. finally the media may have woken up... well, we will see about that over the coming weeks..

A very sad situation.. but this story is essentially a rehash of what Gareth said the other week, a good effort in trying to unravel his confusing accounting speak.

Last edited by TIMA9X; 17th Aug 2014 at 07:51.
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Old 17th Aug 2014, 10:50
  #4737 (permalink)  
 
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That last one explicitly denied by Joyce about two hours ago
Yeah Keg, there wasn't anything in the media about it, did you attend a private meeting with him?
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Old 17th Aug 2014, 10:56
  #4738 (permalink)  
Keg

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PM3207, AJs comments were internal. Private dr dre? Not entirely. I wasn't the only one to hear his words.

Generally speaking I think it's an interesting statement as to where we're at that I don't instinctively trust what the CEO says. Too many times I've been told that everything was OK only to be later shafted.

Reflecting back on my earlier comments and subsequent discussions with others, there have been some contrary interpretations as to whether the future direction re the AOC and sell off of the FF will be announced with the results or soon after. The general thrust was that it will be soon. I took it to be Aug 28. Others felt it may not be then but very soon.
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Old 17th Aug 2014, 14:41
  #4739 (permalink)  
 
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Exclamation How much have Joyce and Clifford Lost?

Just done some calculations based on how much Clifford and Joyce have lost in all of their failed endeavours.

Previous posts have focused on profit and loss - which is fair enough especially as the loss for this year is widely expected to be +\- 1 billion dollars. That is one big number and one that is going focus the attention of the media and the broader community on the mess they have made.

But when you go back and look at the share price historically from the appointment date of Clifford and Joyce the situation is much much worse. And I'm talking not just few billion. Try 8.

We all know the general stats that when these fools were appointed the share price was much higher - at one stage hovering around $5.50 And that's the problem - most discussion of the last 5 years tends to dwell on the destruction they have wrought as being counted in single digit dollars in the share price.

It's only when you expand it all out that the true extent of the destruction of share holder value becomes obscenely obvious.

2,196,330,250 shares issued as of today.

Market cap today at $1.28
= $2,811,302,720

Joyce appointed Nov 28 2008
Market cap on that day at $2.23
= $4,897,816,457.5

Which means that Joyce has been responsible for a loss of share holder value that equates to $2,086,513,740. And that's before the 1 billion or so dip in profit is announced. The board must be very happy with him because they have paid him $22,000,000 to achieve that 2 billion dollar loss. Which is the only thing he has achieved during his 5 year (plus 1) plan.

But it gets worse.

Clifford was appointed 14 Nov 2007
Market cap on that day at $5.09
= $11,179,320,972.50 which
equates to a loss of share holder value of:
$8,368,018,25

I'm simply staggered and appalled to see these losses quantified in black and white.

There is much talk that Joyce will out soon. But as you see he is only a wee apprentice to the 8 Billion Dollar Chairman.

Let's hope there are enough long suffering private investors out there prepared to stand up at the AGM and ask the board in general, and the Chairman specifically - hey what about our 8 billion?.
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Old 17th Aug 2014, 15:07
  #4740 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Typo

This just in. SMH.

Deep cuts: Gareth Evans.

“For us, it’s about controlling what we can control, and pulling out $1 billion worth of costs [and] continuing to improve the network and the product quality for our customers is absolutely what we can control,” Mr Evans said at the CAPA Australia Pacific Aviation Summit."




Obviously this is a misprint. What he obviously said was

" ... continuing to dismantle and reduce the network and decrease the product quality for our customers is absolutely what we can control,”

He expects people will believe this crap. That they can rip 1 billon dollars from international and increase the network and improve quality for pax. CASA needs to get those fancy drug testing kits up to the campus in coward street. What has he been smokin? Or in all likelyhood Olivia drafted that little gem.

BTW hasn't she be quiet lately? What gives?
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