MERGED: Alan's still not happy......
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Australia
Posts: 11
Ken, qantas had the opportunity to tie up with etihad. Etihad would have even paid for the tie-up unlike emirates. Qantas would have got some much-needed funding or aircraft etc. Instead they dismissed etihad with aj comparing them to a bicycle as opposed to a BMW with emirates. Who looks the bigger fool now while crying poor and talking unfair playing fields
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Sydney
Posts: 264
Also an interesting Jetstar article in the Australian based on seemingly a lengthy briefing/interview with Hrdlicka
Title is: Jetstar’s chief sees blue skies ahead
if you want to Google it.
Couple of interesting points.
Overall business
- 120 aircraft to 64 destinations in 16 countries
- 27 million pax this year
- Employ 4000 people
- Generated > $1 billion profit for Qantas Group over 10 yrs
- Each of the Asian business have local boards and local chairs, Jetstar (Aus) merely participates and provides some services
Singapore
- Recognition from all players inc Tiger and Air Asia that there is overcapacity
Hong Kong
- Has now sold 3 of its 9 aircraft -- think this is new news
- Remains "quietly optimistic" about approvals
Pacific (Vietnam)
- Fleet restructure complete to 6 A320s, more on way
Japan
- Going strength to strength
- Osaka base delays will work through system
Title is: Jetstar’s chief sees blue skies ahead
if you want to Google it.
Couple of interesting points.
Overall business
- 120 aircraft to 64 destinations in 16 countries
- 27 million pax this year
- Employ 4000 people
- Generated > $1 billion profit for Qantas Group over 10 yrs
- Each of the Asian business have local boards and local chairs, Jetstar (Aus) merely participates and provides some services
Singapore
- Recognition from all players inc Tiger and Air Asia that there is overcapacity
Hong Kong
- Has now sold 3 of its 9 aircraft -- think this is new news
- Remains "quietly optimistic" about approvals
Pacific (Vietnam)
- Fleet restructure complete to 6 A320s, more on way
Japan
- Going strength to strength
- Osaka base delays will work through system
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Oz
Posts: 443
KB, I don't think many have 'poo pooped' the uneven playing field from the QF side of the fence. It has been clearly evident for a long time that subsidies have been provided to this and a number of other airlines worldwide, as this article that was originally released in the AFR proves.
With this evidence in his(Joyce) pocket, a responsible CEO would be in the courts over breaches to the Anti-Dumping laws.
With this evidence in his(Joyce) pocket, a responsible CEO would be in the courts over breaches to the Anti-Dumping laws.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: All over the Planet
Posts: 758
Angry
Rest easy! Those who poo-poohed Qantas' views were not from within. It will be interesting to see where and how these revelations go. I wonder if the other two carriers from that part of the world and which compete against Qantas have the same beneficial arrangements? It's little wonder that they can whack their competition, especially as many politicians lay prostrate at their metaphorical feet.
Rest easy! Those who poo-poohed Qantas' views were not from within. It will be interesting to see where and how these revelations go. I wonder if the other two carriers from that part of the world and which compete against Qantas have the same beneficial arrangements? It's little wonder that they can whack their competition, especially as many politicians lay prostrate at their metaphorical feet.
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Oz
Posts: 443
Angryrat...how about the non-recourse loans provided to Jetstar NZ which were forgiven? Pot, meet kettle.
Last edited by angryrat; 22nd May 2014 at 08:45.
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Weltschmerz-By-The-Sea, Queensland, Australia
Posts: 721
Angryrat, I take your point, but dumping is not exclusively an act caused by another sovereign state...private.companies are the typical culprits.
The anti-dumping laws, very broadly summarised:
"Both the Australian system and WTO agreements focus exclusively on whether dumping and/or subsidisation has occurred, and whether this has caused or threatens material injury to the local industry producing like goods."
Material injury could mean reduced profits, which it could be argued Jetstar NZ causes AirNz.
Certainly Qantas may be harmed by a robust Virgin, but it does enough self-harm that it would be a an interesting argument. Under its current management Qantas could go bankrupt even if there was no external competition.
Qantas does not compete on a level playing field. No question. But that seems to be a particularly Australian affectation. No one else in the world cares about perceived fairness as much as we do. On the other hand they all seem to have governments who don't throw up their skirts to all comers.
The anti-dumping laws, very broadly summarised:
"Both the Australian system and WTO agreements focus exclusively on whether dumping and/or subsidisation has occurred, and whether this has caused or threatens material injury to the local industry producing like goods."
Material injury could mean reduced profits, which it could be argued Jetstar NZ causes AirNz.
Certainly Qantas may be harmed by a robust Virgin, but it does enough self-harm that it would be a an interesting argument. Under its current management Qantas could go bankrupt even if there was no external competition.
Qantas does not compete on a level playing field. No question. But that seems to be a particularly Australian affectation. No one else in the world cares about perceived fairness as much as we do. On the other hand they all seem to have governments who don't throw up their skirts to all comers.
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Oz
Posts: 443
Australopithecus, I certainly take your point. However this is the evidence that I need to ring the local politician and absolutely give it to them. You and I both agree that it is certainly not a level playing field and the politicians are copping it left, right and centre at the moment because of the budget. If you are ever going to get their attention, it is now because they are feeling friendless. It is time to tell these politicians that if they don't pull their heads out of the sand and address these state subsidies in the airline industry, then they will have 25,000 people out on the street.
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Weltschmerz-By-The-Sea, Queensland, Australia
Posts: 721
Angryrat, I couldn't even get my local MP to respond to a polite, cogent two paragraph expression of concern before the budget was released. (I hired a ghost writer)
It puzzles me that politicians forget that they are an equal partner in my income, more or less. 25,000 workers paying out a half billion in tax yearly. (At a guess...average of 20K each?)
I note that Canada and Germany have limited the penetration of ME carriers into their markets. There are probably other countries that try to protect their home airlines and industries vigorously. They have leadership. We have politicians.
It puzzles me that politicians forget that they are an equal partner in my income, more or less. 25,000 workers paying out a half billion in tax yearly. (At a guess...average of 20K each?)
I note that Canada and Germany have limited the penetration of ME carriers into their markets. There are probably other countries that try to protect their home airlines and industries vigorously. They have leadership. We have politicians.
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Castle NastySwine
Posts: 157
On the other hand they all seem to have governments who don't throw up their skirts to all comers.
But then the Swiss, Canadians, Germans and Scandinavians seem to be doing just fine under similar circumstances.
Whatever happens, you can guarantee they will not diddle themselves out of a place at the trough.
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: South Island
Age: 39
Posts: 511
Japan
- Going strength to strength
- Osaka base delays will work through system
- Going strength to strength
- Osaka base delays will work through system
Jetstar Japan to cancel 101 domestic flights June 3-11
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Inside their OODA loop
Posts: 242
Jetstar Japan to cancel 101 domestic flights June 3-11
Japan Today -- May 22
Jetstar Japan on Wednesday became the latest low cost carrier to announce a cancellation of flights.
The airline will cancel 101 flights between June 3 and June 11, TBS reported. However, unlike other budget airlines Peach Aviation and Vanilla Air which have had to cancel flights due to a shortage of pilots, Jetstar said the reason for its canceled flights was because fuselage maintenance did not go as planned at Kansai International Airport. Jetstar said it will issue refunds to and transfer approximately 2,800 customers onto other airline flights during the suspension period.
Japan Today -- May 22
Jetstar Japan on Wednesday became the latest low cost carrier to announce a cancellation of flights.
The airline will cancel 101 flights between June 3 and June 11, TBS reported. However, unlike other budget airlines Peach Aviation and Vanilla Air which have had to cancel flights due to a shortage of pilots, Jetstar said the reason for its canceled flights was because fuselage maintenance did not go as planned at Kansai International Airport. Jetstar said it will issue refunds to and transfer approximately 2,800 customers onto other airline flights during the suspension period.
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Adrift upon the tides of fate
Posts: 1,839
Back from the brink, US airlines are now the world's most profitable "Delta, American, United and Southwest pulled themselves up by junking old habits such as adding flights to win market share.. "
So, while the US carriers became the most profitable in the world by cutting capacity, increasing yield by dropping "old habits" such as pursuing market share, QF was....?
Joyce is worth every penny.
So, while the US carriers became the most profitable in the world by cutting capacity, increasing yield by dropping "old habits" such as pursuing market share, QF was....?
Joyce is worth every penny.
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 468
This begs the question. "Has the Qantas Group spent so much trying to get to where they want to be, that they cannot afford to take the losses to get back to where they SHOULD be?"
For some time now, I have wondered about a "point of no return" for Qantas. It seems to me that the current business model has cost a lot of money and continue to cost unaffordable larger amounts of money. Losses continue to mount and Joyce and co. remain unrepentant.
Something just has to give.The capacity war appears to be in a hiatus now, so what's next?
For some time now, I have wondered about a "point of no return" for Qantas. It seems to me that the current business model has cost a lot of money and continue to cost unaffordable larger amounts of money. Losses continue to mount and Joyce and co. remain unrepentant.
Something just has to give.The capacity war appears to be in a hiatus now, so what's next?
