MERGED: Alan's still not happy......
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Wild Goose: Why don't they do it?
(a) Strikes are not fashionable for the public. Staff lose PR battle.
(b) Strikers do not run the company. Is there a safety issue? No. Is there an issue with compensation? Yes, but nothing worth striking over.
(c) The company is going downhill. Striking workers will just exacerbate the issue and provide a convenient point of blame for the incompetence of others.
(a) Strikes are not fashionable for the public. Staff lose PR battle.
(b) Strikers do not run the company. Is there a safety issue? No. Is there an issue with compensation? Yes, but nothing worth striking over.
(c) The company is going downhill. Striking workers will just exacerbate the issue and provide a convenient point of blame for the incompetence of others.
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I agree with Sunfish. Qantas management would be mad to close international. It is Qantas. A huge part of Qantas Domestic's success is on-carriage. Take away International and the whole lot crumbles. However, decisions emanating from the Qantas board room no longer hold any surprise. The surprise would be if something sensible came out of there. I'm fully expecting a renewed focus on Jetstar, further cutbacks with International and a lase faire attitude to idle aircraft in Asia.
My tip for what it's worth: Watch those idle Asian aircraft. If they get approval to operate in Asia, then well and good for a while. If they start moving en masse back to Australia, a financial announcement won't be far behind. If Qantas doesn't relocate those aircraft prior to going belly up, anyone trying to recover funds will never get them out of Asia.
Another observation for what it's worth: many years ago, Boeing did its research and established that the passenger of the future is looking for frequency in air travel and hub busting capabilities. Airbus decided to focus on the A380. Airbus wanted the biggest in comparing members. It's obvious which philosophy Qantas decided to emulate.
My tip for what it's worth: Watch those idle Asian aircraft. If they get approval to operate in Asia, then well and good for a while. If they start moving en masse back to Australia, a financial announcement won't be far behind. If Qantas doesn't relocate those aircraft prior to going belly up, anyone trying to recover funds will never get them out of Asia.
Another observation for what it's worth: many years ago, Boeing did its research and established that the passenger of the future is looking for frequency in air travel and hub busting capabilities. Airbus decided to focus on the A380. Airbus wanted the biggest in comparing members. It's obvious which philosophy Qantas decided to emulate.
Sunfish...sorry, I was rushing through my post. I meant to write Jetstar domestic being curtailed, and Jetstar International being shut down.
The group executives might look past their blind ideology to see that the group redundancy payments could be minimised by making redundant the cheapest surplus staff of the group. And focusing on the aspect of the group that returns the highest revenues. ****
There is a reason that the rest of the industry cannot make a LCC subsidiary work. Time to face facts and kill off either the child or the parent.
****relax, Jetstar guys. It'll never happen.
The group executives might look past their blind ideology to see that the group redundancy payments could be minimised by making redundant the cheapest surplus staff of the group. And focusing on the aspect of the group that returns the highest revenues. ****
There is a reason that the rest of the industry cannot make a LCC subsidiary work. Time to face facts and kill off either the child or the parent.
****relax, Jetstar guys. It'll never happen.
I was being facetious.... If crew don't listen to PA's then why would passengers??
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Industrial Action
wild goose,
Industrial action is governed by the Fair Work Act. Here is an excerpt from the Fair Work Australia website
The ability to strike in Australia has been all but eliminated with virtually unlimited liability on any person or organisation that takes part.
obira
Industrial action is governed by the Fair Work Act. Here is an excerpt from the Fair Work Australia website
Unlawful industrial action
Industrial action is unlawful if it’s engaged in when there’s an enterprise agreement in place that covers the employee, employer or employee organisation that hasn’t passed its nominal expiry date.
The Fair work Commission must suspend or stop any unlawful action. Court orders can also be used to enforce this.
Consequences of unlawful action
If you take part in unlawful industrial action, some individuals or organisations can take court action against you. These individuals or organisations include:
anyone covered by the enterprise agreement who is affected by the action
anyone else who is affected by the action (e.g. a business that lost money because it couldn’t get hold of goods it needed)
the Fair Work Ombudsman (us).
The court can order you to pay either or both:
compensation for losses
fines.
Industrial action is unlawful if it’s engaged in when there’s an enterprise agreement in place that covers the employee, employer or employee organisation that hasn’t passed its nominal expiry date.
The Fair work Commission must suspend or stop any unlawful action. Court orders can also be used to enforce this.
Consequences of unlawful action
If you take part in unlawful industrial action, some individuals or organisations can take court action against you. These individuals or organisations include:
anyone covered by the enterprise agreement who is affected by the action
anyone else who is affected by the action (e.g. a business that lost money because it couldn’t get hold of goods it needed)
the Fair Work Ombudsman (us).
The court can order you to pay either or both:
compensation for losses
fines.
The ability to strike in Australia has been all but eliminated with virtually unlimited liability on any person or organisation that takes part.
obira
Qantas has long complained about an uneven playing field. Manny have ' poo-pooped ' (?) suggestions that they have unfair competition. There an illuminating story in the Business section of smh.com.au . Here's a redacted teaser:
Perhaps we now know why certain investments are able to be made with gay abandon. And why AJ is indeed unhappy!
......... Airways received massive financial support from the royal family of .......... contrary to long-standing denials, documents obtained by Fairfax Media show.
The state-owned airline had access to a secret, interest-free $US3 billion ($3.3 billion) loan from the ........ ruling family that required no repayments until 2027, according to documents prepared for prospective financiers.
The state-owned airline had access to a secret, interest-free $US3 billion ($3.3 billion) loan from the ........ ruling family that required no repayments until 2027, according to documents prepared for prospective financiers.
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Ken, qantas had the opportunity to tie up with etihad. Etihad would have even paid for the tie-up unlike emirates. Qantas would have got some much-needed funding or aircraft etc. Instead they dismissed etihad with aj comparing them to a bicycle as opposed to a BMW with emirates. Who looks the bigger fool now while crying poor and talking unfair playing fields
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Also an interesting Jetstar article in the Australian based on seemingly a lengthy briefing/interview with Hrdlicka
Title is: Jetstar’s chief sees blue skies ahead
if you want to Google it.
Couple of interesting points.
Overall business
- 120 aircraft to 64 destinations in 16 countries
- 27 million pax this year
- Employ 4000 people
- Generated > $1 billion profit for Qantas Group over 10 yrs
- Each of the Asian business have local boards and local chairs, Jetstar (Aus) merely participates and provides some services
Singapore
- Recognition from all players inc Tiger and Air Asia that there is overcapacity
Hong Kong
- Has now sold 3 of its 9 aircraft -- think this is new news
- Remains "quietly optimistic" about approvals
Pacific (Vietnam)
- Fleet restructure complete to 6 A320s, more on way
Japan
- Going strength to strength
- Osaka base delays will work through system
Title is: Jetstar’s chief sees blue skies ahead
if you want to Google it.
Couple of interesting points.
Overall business
- 120 aircraft to 64 destinations in 16 countries
- 27 million pax this year
- Employ 4000 people
- Generated > $1 billion profit for Qantas Group over 10 yrs
- Each of the Asian business have local boards and local chairs, Jetstar (Aus) merely participates and provides some services
Singapore
- Recognition from all players inc Tiger and Air Asia that there is overcapacity
Hong Kong
- Has now sold 3 of its 9 aircraft -- think this is new news
- Remains "quietly optimistic" about approvals
Pacific (Vietnam)
- Fleet restructure complete to 6 A320s, more on way
Japan
- Going strength to strength
- Osaka base delays will work through system
If AJ and Co hadn't so severely mismanaged Qantas strategy over the last 6 years then Qantas would have a far greater ability to fight the battle against JB and his benefactors.
How can you fly 120 aircraft with only 4000 employees?
Not that there is any grain of truth to the tone of the piece, or most of the facts.
Not that there is any grain of truth to the tone of the piece, or most of the facts.
Angry
Rest easy! Those who poo-poohed Qantas' views were not from within. It will be interesting to see where and how these revelations go. I wonder if the other two carriers from that part of the world and which compete against Qantas have the same beneficial arrangements? It's little wonder that they can whack their competition, especially as many politicians lay prostrate at their metaphorical feet.
Rest easy! Those who poo-poohed Qantas' views were not from within. It will be interesting to see where and how these revelations go. I wonder if the other two carriers from that part of the world and which compete against Qantas have the same beneficial arrangements? It's little wonder that they can whack their competition, especially as many politicians lay prostrate at their metaphorical feet.
Angryrat, I take your point, but dumping is not exclusively an act caused by another sovereign state...private.companies are the typical culprits.
The anti-dumping laws, very broadly summarised:
"Both the Australian system and WTO agreements focus exclusively on whether dumping and/or subsidisation has occurred, and whether this has caused or threatens material injury to the local industry producing like goods."
Material injury could mean reduced profits, which it could be argued Jetstar NZ causes AirNz.
Certainly Qantas may be harmed by a robust Virgin, but it does enough self-harm that it would be a an interesting argument. Under its current management Qantas could go bankrupt even if there was no external competition.
Qantas does not compete on a level playing field. No question. But that seems to be a particularly Australian affectation. No one else in the world cares about perceived fairness as much as we do. On the other hand they all seem to have governments who don't throw up their skirts to all comers.
The anti-dumping laws, very broadly summarised:
"Both the Australian system and WTO agreements focus exclusively on whether dumping and/or subsidisation has occurred, and whether this has caused or threatens material injury to the local industry producing like goods."
Material injury could mean reduced profits, which it could be argued Jetstar NZ causes AirNz.
Certainly Qantas may be harmed by a robust Virgin, but it does enough self-harm that it would be a an interesting argument. Under its current management Qantas could go bankrupt even if there was no external competition.
Qantas does not compete on a level playing field. No question. But that seems to be a particularly Australian affectation. No one else in the world cares about perceived fairness as much as we do. On the other hand they all seem to have governments who don't throw up their skirts to all comers.
Angryrat, I couldn't even get my local MP to respond to a polite, cogent two paragraph expression of concern before the budget was released. (I hired a ghost writer)
It puzzles me that politicians forget that they are an equal partner in my income, more or less. 25,000 workers paying out a half billion in tax yearly. (At a guess...average of 20K each?)
I note that Canada and Germany have limited the penetration of ME carriers into their markets. There are probably other countries that try to protect their home airlines and industries vigorously. They have leadership. We have politicians.
It puzzles me that politicians forget that they are an equal partner in my income, more or less. 25,000 workers paying out a half billion in tax yearly. (At a guess...average of 20K each?)
I note that Canada and Germany have limited the penetration of ME carriers into their markets. There are probably other countries that try to protect their home airlines and industries vigorously. They have leadership. We have politicians.
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On the other hand they all seem to have governments who don't throw up their skirts to all comers.
But then the Swiss, Canadians, Germans and Scandinavians seem to be doing just fine under similar circumstances.
Whatever happens, you can guarantee they will not diddle themselves out of a place at the trough.