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MERGED: Alan's still not happy......

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MERGED: Alan's still not happy......

Old 19th Feb 2014, 04:27
  #2401 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,199
I'm totally opposed to any form of debt guarantee for Qantas.

Unless of course it's a debt gaurantee to allow them to convert the 787 options to orders and the airframes going to mainline.

In which case, I fully support the debt gaurantee.

MC
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Old 19th Feb 2014, 04:45
  #2402 (permalink)  
 
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Before we jump up and down over a debt guarantee. Can we first learn how it would work? I'm sure plenty here don't know and neither do I.

The government has said a limited debt guarantee, so does that mean Qantas would issue a limited amount of bonds that are government backed? What is the amount? $500m, $1b, $2b? What?

How would a limited debt guarantee change the credit rating?

Remember the government was on the hook for about $1 trillion for the bank and other debt guarantees during the GFC, so I think a limited Qantas debt guarantee would be a pittance compared to that.
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Old 19th Feb 2014, 07:12
  #2403 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
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More importantly a limited debt guarantee would possibly avoid the need for a full financial due diligence. The obvious question is what are these guys hiding (Let alone what is the benefit) if it eventuates. Seems this is more intended as a political maneuver if this is the outcome (cover their ass by limiting risk while publicly seeming to do something).
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Old 19th Feb 2014, 07:52
  #2404 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
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Any govt intervention/support/guarantee means FULL FORENSIC ACCOUNTING of all businesses.

As has been the case for the last 5-10 years no-one except a very precious few know any facts about the financial strengths of the business. Give me something I trust, I'd take a 20% cut. As sure as god/Allah made little apples it will never happen.

PS: ipad insisted on capital A for Allah, but was very happy with lower case 'g'. Hmmmmmm....
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Old 19th Feb 2014, 20:16
  #2405 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: S33E151
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Just heard a sound grab from Ross Greeenwood talking Qantas. He thinks Qf Sales Act restrictions will be lifted (assuming it get through Parliament) and that following on from there 'EK would be the logical buyer'.

Again, you couldn't make this up by he is 'interviewing' BGA at the 'Australia - Israel' conference (I assume about the wonders of the Arab world) in the next few weeks, so he at least speaks to the little twerp.
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Old 19th Feb 2014, 20:38
  #2406 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: herethereandeverywhere
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Even if there was full forensic accounting done, do you really think the accountants hired for the job would be purely independent and unbiased? Not a chance. There'd be distractions and protests up here with the left hand while the right hand is down here signing contracts. When the results come back clean, then what?
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Old 19th Feb 2014, 20:45
  #2407 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
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True...
And thats the whole problem really. You simply cannot trust the bastards...
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Old 19th Feb 2014, 21:27
  #2408 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Netherlands
Age: 63
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Roll 'Domestic' into Jetstar overnight 1 March with all staff transmitted across to new contracts, bypassing current EA provisions due to 'exceptional financial stress' and rubber stamped by FWA........
Red tails on Orange contracts.....

Don't believe it won't happen.......
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Old 19th Feb 2014, 21:39
  #2409 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Sydney
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The reality is EK could buy 25% of Qantas today, and so long as other international shareholders are under 24%, Qantas is still operating under the QSA and other aviation legislation..

The shareholding issues in the QSA are not particularly limiting of the marginal investor which drives the share price, albeit they do limit the parties that could mount an outright acquisition of Qantas.
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Old 19th Feb 2014, 22:02
  #2410 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Inside their OODA loop
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The Townsville refueller says, after close of trading on Friday:
  • Joyce to announces his departure
  • Rob Fyfe as next CEO
  • $300 million Standby debt facility from Federal government
  • Renewed focus on growth in the red side of the business
He is a bit hazy on the rest:
  • A380 for B777 swap with EK possibility
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Old 19th Feb 2014, 22:17
  #2411 (permalink)  
 
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FYSTI....


Can't be true.....

It would go against the last ten years of unchecked incompetence, and plundering and pillaging of the rat.
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Old 19th Feb 2014, 22:19
  #2412 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
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The Townsville refueller says, after close of trading on Friday:
Joyce to announces his departure
Rob Fyfe as next CEO
$300 million Standby debt facility from Federal government
Renewed focus on growth in the red side of the business
He is a bit hazy on the rest:
A380 for B777 swap with EK possibility
Yeah, I used to believe in Santa once as well .....
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Old 19th Feb 2014, 22:46
  #2413 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: On the chopping board.
Posts: 905
The Qantas PR spin at the moment is "we don't want a hand out, we don't need a hand out IF we are allowed to re-organise and re-structure".
Yep, I don't think they really care about workers wages, shift penalties and all that business. At the end of the day the Federal government can remove all our award conditions and it would probably make not one scrap of difference. Everything looks to be heading offshore if they get half the chance. Feb 27 and the next couple of years should prove that point.

The most damaging industrial action I have seen in our industry was carried out in 2011 when the airline was shut down unnecessarily. The amount of money lost in bad PR, lost sales, IR head kicking fees and staff morale will never be truly appreciated.
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Old 19th Feb 2014, 23:14
  #2414 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 371
Plane Talking brought up an interesting rumour about some potentially surplus QF A380's if they can DXB-LHR.

Here's a link to part of the rumour:

Rumor: Turkish To Wet Lease A380s - One Mile at a Time - One Mile at a Time
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Old 20th Feb 2014, 02:00
  #2415 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
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JB on Qantas

I think this pretty much sums up where things are at

Qantas is lobbying for government help and Virgin Australia is lobbying against Qantas.
The two airlines' war to win public support has largely been waged without either of their chief executives doing on-the-record interviews. Virgin's John Borghetti slams Qantas and Joe Hockey over assistance talk - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
Virgin CEO John Borghetti hits out at Qantas assistance plea - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
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Old 20th Feb 2014, 02:41
  #2416 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Aus
Posts: 104
When Ansett requested government help, Qantas were strongly against it. How things have changed.
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Old 20th Feb 2014, 04:44
  #2417 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
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Why don't they just put an Administrator in for 90 days ( chapter 11 ) and return aircraft they don't want, lay off the staff not needed, change the management, standardise the fleet (777/737/A330), piss Jetstar off emerge from administration chapter 11 and plough on ???
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Old 20th Feb 2014, 05:33
  #2418 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 704
Why don't they just put an Administrator in for 90 days ( chapter 11 ) and return aircraft they don't want, lay off the staff not needed, change the management, standardise the fleet (777/737/A330), piss Jetstar off emerge from administration chapter 11 and plough on ???
Because we don't have Chapter 11, and because an administration would mean the management would lose all control, and they might even be found to have broken the law. Not saying they have, just saying when an administrator takes over, it's down to the administrator and the courts what happens. Unless they became insolvent, it's not going to happen.

The US Bankruptcy code is very different to Australian law.
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Old 20th Feb 2014, 08:07
  #2419 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 43
Rumor: 27th Feb the 767 and 747 fleet will either
be grounded or an announcement of grounding will be made.

It's seems over the past few days this rumor could be fact. If Emirates take over
London, Singapore, Bangkok it frees up enough aircraft. Jetstar will then fill the gap in Asia.... Just a rumor.
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Old 20th Feb 2014, 08:16
  #2420 (permalink)  
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Didn't they just spend lots of money on the 767 cabins?
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