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MERGED: Alan's still not happy......

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MERGED: Alan's still not happy......

Old 4th Feb 2014, 03:33
  #2061 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 186
How stupid do they think the public are?

And this incredibly courageous women would know........

This is the end game, the box and dice, the be all and end all.......its work choices.........

It sounds like a carnival fair in Canberra. "Roll up, roll up, if your profits are not bulging, come on down and put your hand up, cause we are going to squeeze the nuts of this country"

Everything that happens now will be blamed on the workers of this country supposedly having their snouts in the trough. If history is anything to go by, its sounding like a single term PM every day, greed can be so blind. One can only hope.......

From Yahoo7News,

Liberal MP Sharman Stone accuses Prime Minister Tony Abbott and Treasurer Joe Hockey of lying over SPC - Yahoo!7

"A Liberal backbencher has accused Prime Minister Tony Abbott and Treasurer Joe Hockey of lying about union conditions at SPC Ardmona.
Sharman Stone, the federal Member for the Victorian seat of Murray, says her senior colleagues are using excuses that are "wrong" to justify the decision to reject a bid for $25 million in government assistance from the food processor - which is based in her electorate.
Union-negotiated conditions for workers have come under fire from the Government for being too extravagant, with pay well above the award.
In an extraordinary outburst, Dr Stone says the leaders of her party are deceiving the public debate.
"It's not the truth. That's right, it's lying," she said.
"The independent panel, their own independent panel, I understand recommended that this industry be supported."
This morning on AM, Dr Stone was pressed on her use of the word "lying", and whether she believed Employment Minister Eric Abetz's statement that workers' allowances were "over-generous" also represented a lie.
"Well, you could use that word if you like," she said.
She later added that "it is a complete furphy what is being said about the troubles of this last fruit-preserving industry."
The Prime Minister’s office has declined an ABC request for comment and Mr Hockey’s office has not yet responded.

Hasn't responded??????? Give the guy some time to cook up another interview meltdown. So tell us when you first found out about this one Joe......

Last edited by Acute Instinct; 4th Feb 2014 at 06:22.
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Old 4th Feb 2014, 04:26
  #2062 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 704
Things to do today, or soon, at least...

Alan out.
Leigh out.
Tony out.
Joe - back to school.
Malcolm - promote to head prefect
Sharman - promote and listen to what she says
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Old 4th Feb 2014, 04:48
  #2063 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Inside their OODA loop
Posts: 243
The 2010 words of Sue Bussell (Executive Manager, Industrial Relations, Qantas)come flooding back: 'Turbulent Times - a practitioner's perspective of Industrial Relations in Aviation'

Page 7 (formatted for easier reading)
These developments raise a number of issues for practitioners. First, it has introduced a degree of complexity in reconciling legislative minimum standards with some long standing entitlements in enterprise agreements, as well as in effect removing from the scope of bargaining a number of core employment conditions. Whereas in the past the industrial parties had full discretion on how they structured benefits such as annual leave and personal leave in enterprise agreements, since WorkChoices, and similarly under the FairWork Act, this is no longer the case. Second, having accessed the Corporations power for the direct federal regulation of employment conditions there is the pot
ential to further blur and expand entitlements based on social and employment policy such as paid maternity leave.

Third, despite having expanded the safety net there is not yet a settled consensus on whether this safety net is indeed an acceptable set of minimum conditions to apply to the workforce, though the modern award process in Fair Work Australia has certainly advanced this understanding.

Finally, in effect this expanded safety net has changed the territory in which the debate over the respective role of individual and collective agreements under Work Choices occurred – that is the expanded safety net has reduced –or arguably removed - the vulnerability of the individual when bargaining directly with an employer.

The recent review of Modern awards was an opportunity for the distinction between a safety net and conditions bargained in individual enterprises to be tested. The Qantas group played a significant role in the review of the aviation industry awards. Although it might appear that an easy approach for Qantas would have been to stand back from the process because raising the industry standard would impact on our ‘low cost’ competitors more than on Qantas mainline, our view was that the long term competitiveness of the industry in Australia required that aviation industry awards remained as true Industry minima.

Otherwise, we would have become potentially less competitive with international carriers operating to Australia, and we also needed to protect our subsidiaries Jetstar and QantasLink – QantasLink provides services to regional Australia and has some community service obligations. The challenge was significant with some unions taking a very different approach to the concept of a safety net being a minimum standard. We had to provide
comprehensive data and the initial decisions of the Tribunal were then subject to a Ministerial request for review. However in the end, under very difficult circumstances the Tribunal got it right for this industry. There was no evidence of any individual being worse off and the awards provide for a fair minimum standard safety net that is a foundation – not a replacement - for collective bargaining
Yeh right. It wasn't a replacment then, but it is now that "circumstance have [been made to] changed."

Best to break out the Air Pilots Award 2010 as that appears to be the long-term game plan & future for the entire industry.

The game is simple. Send the enterprise to the wall, cry poor and implement by force the base award with the assistance of the Federal Government, one industry at a time, using the previous case as a justification. This would appear to be the agenda behind the SPC media spin.
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Old 4th Feb 2014, 09:31
  #2064 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Fliegensville, Gold Coast Australia
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And this...

Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian

"We are doing our best to reduce all costs across the business, however the serious problems that have beset SPCA have not been because of labour costs and certainly not from the allowances, a fact borne out by the Productivity Commission's recent analysis,''

No see I remember Umm Ahh TA saying any IR decisions would be based on outcomes found by the Productivity Commission. Hmm, that's gospel truth TA for you, thankfully (for him) a largely compliant media play along....but lies and dishonesty....well they're not an exclusive domain of the left are they?
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Old 4th Feb 2014, 22:04
  #2065 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: In a House on earth
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Alans Not Happy

Who the hell cares if this W****R is not happy, what goes around comes around hope the hell this saying is really CORRECT.
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Old 5th Feb 2014, 01:45
  #2066 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Oz
Posts: 381
Posted elsewhere but ...

Not a fan of Paul Howes, but just listened to him on the ABC's NPC and he delivered a fantastic speech, with quite a bit of eloquence, on the IR debate.

I might have even changed my view on him but that tie up with Livvy is just a bit too cosy.

I haven't got the link, but do try and listen to it on the ABC website.
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Old 5th Feb 2014, 02:29
  #2067 (permalink)  
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Paul's speech makes me think he's realised there's more money and power in a management job and a cushy few board seats somewhere than there is in a tilt at Federal Parliament, even via a safe seat.
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Old 5th Feb 2014, 04:15
  #2068 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Age: 61
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Richard Branson's Virgin Atlantic will ditch daily flights between Sydney and Hong Kong in May, blaming increasing costs and a challenging economic environment.

The decision to end flying to Australia after almost 10 years will be a fillip for Virgin's rivals on the route, Qantas and Hong Kong flag carrier Cathay Pacific.

Read more: Virgin Atlantic axes flights between Sydney and Hong Kong

How will QF react?

Guarantee not as quickly at CX.
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Old 5th Feb 2014, 04:40
  #2069 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: rangaville
Posts: 2,282
Cathay the only airline now flying between Sydney & London.

Kissed on the dick by a fairy??
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Old 5th Feb 2014, 04:46
  #2070 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2005
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Cathay the only airline now flying between Sydney & London.
.......via Hong Kong.
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Old 5th Feb 2014, 04:46
  #2071 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Sydney
Posts: 265
I suspect by pushing prices up... and would expect CX to do the same (they aren't exactly making much money either)
Same demand, less supply = higher fares

Probably the best news QFi has had on any route in a long time.
A duopoly route with no LCCs flying direct.
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Old 5th Feb 2014, 04:49
  #2072 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2003
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QFs presence on SYD/MEL to HKG is a joke compared to CXs - as it is with most routes on which it competes. VS pulling out will make 2/5 of 5/8th of sweet FA difference to the competitive dynamics on these routes. It's a few hundred seats a day when CX has several thousand between SYD and MEL and HKG.
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Old 5th Feb 2014, 06:27
  #2073 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2009
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Hopes fading on government assistance for Qantas

lies and dishonesty....well they're not an exclusive domain of the left are they?
Yep, I agree, I am disappointed with TA & his crew so far but playing the "work choices" theme song is exactly the same as playing Labor's "FWA" theme song..

both are the same, just pays lawyers and look what that did for the Qantas staff who lost their gigs after Joyce shut down the airline, he just continued on his merry way cutting & slashing even with a new Liberal government installed... I doubt nothing will change much on that front... as both sides of government in Canberra simply lack talent to understand the ramifications of the course set by Clifford & Joyce for the future of Qantas.

I expressed my concerns about importance of preserving what's left of our industry to Mr Truss via email a few times in December as I was concerned about QFI pilots jobs, sadly after a lot of effort I got this standard reply.


I still believe strongly in Qantas International and I think most Australians do, they simply haven't the time to think about it.

QI have been great ambassadors for Australia and aviation in general, now sadly being downsized to suit the wallets of a few at the top of the management tree. This same tree of managers (and their predecessors) simply forgot to order the right equipment, because they became consumed with their ego's conquering Asia, now in 2014 we have new Jet* equipment parked all over the place whilst QFI awaits its next course of management cutback announcements later this month. Brilliant stuff... but still the management try to complicate this simple mistake with blogs like this gem which is still rumbling along Former Qantas Chief Economist replies to CFO article | Plane Talking the comments says it all..

I guess a new round of proceedings in Canberra will start soon (again) so in the photo above just paste the head of your favourite Q manager or politician on either side of the political fence, none of them will own up, they will all just continue to cover their spots.

Qantas will renew its lobbying in Canberra next week when chief executive Alan Joyce meets senior politicians.
But analysts and sources within the Coalition believe it has become less likely that Qantas will be granted its wish of a financial guarantee in the form of a standby debt facility.
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Old 5th Feb 2014, 08:11
  #2074 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 186
Typical really........

PM says,
‘‘Penalty rates are very important to people - very, very important to people. If you are a low-paid worker one of the things that you often love to do is work late-nights, weekends, because it does substantially increase your income.’’

Have you ever heard such rubbish??????

Late nights, shift work, and working weekends has been proven to have toxic and detrimental effects upon workers family units, social lives, relationships, and health. Penalty rates are a compensation for that.

And soon enough, with the removal of such compensation, that's all the workers of this country will be doing it for, just to feel the love......

Read more: Paul Howes: Excessive wages growth is 'pricing some sectors out of the market'

Last edited by Acute Instinct; 5th Feb 2014 at 08:58.
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Old 5th Feb 2014, 08:34
  #2075 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,163
CX not making money on SYD HKG route??????? Who says?????
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Old 5th Feb 2014, 09:34
  #2076 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 452
It's a little different when CX is operating in/out of their hub, versus VX operates via someone else's hub.

VX is only carrying traffic to either HKG or LHR. CX is carrying traffic to either HKG or the planet…
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Old 5th Feb 2014, 09:59
  #2077 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: rangaville
Posts: 2,282
It would appear that Mr Howes is perhaps a little........? How should I put it? [email protected]#+struck.
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Old 5th Feb 2014, 12:21
  #2078 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Melbourne,Vic,Australia
Posts: 396
It's a little different when CX is operating in/out of their hub, versus VX operates via someone else's hub
Q dosn't have a hub or an idea

The Q idea is pay for a big billboard in HK (somewhere on the above ground part of Lou Wu - Central MTR) which says "fly Q on the A380 three times a WEEK to Sydney".

That was in 2012, CX were doing 3 flights per DAY to SYD. Like that notorious PX ad 25? years ago which had a photoshop of number of kangas "Why stuff around with Q, try the PX alternative"

Edited to add

As SLF Garuda is more pleasant
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Old 5th Feb 2014, 13:09
  #2079 (permalink)  
short flights long nights
Join Date: Aug 1999
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Just let me get that straight. In 2012, Qantas had 3 flights a day out of Hong Kong?
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Old 6th Feb 2014, 00:01
  #2080 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Sydney
Age: 61
Posts: 338
Yes SOPS and for one who flew on a regular basis for business they provided 'choice' (where have I heard that?)

The QF 30 would get in from LHR so those pax had 'choice' stay on if heading to MEL or connect to the 747 service down to SYD which was the same departure time as the current flight to SYD.

The other 'choice' was the early morning departure to SYD on an A330 getting in at 9 pm ish.

Would it be correct to say that the only true departure point that offers 'choice' now is LAX?

Good work AJ.
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