MERGED: Alan's still not happy......
To add to the above rumours, the A380 to come off Mlb/lax to be replaced by the 747. That would allow a swap for Dallas. All will be revealed at the end of the month and we will all be bored as there won't be any more rumours.
Must be different rumour mill, but once Alan has sold the terminals, to fund the redundancy pay outs, Mass sackings all round to improve "the bottom line."
Numbers from 3000-6000, pick your number. Including 100 pilots.
I hope every aspect of that rumour is wrong.
Numbers from 3000-6000, pick your number. Including 100 pilots.
I hope every aspect of that rumour is wrong.
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Numbers from 3000-6000, pick your number. Including 100 pilots.
I hope every aspect of that rumour is wrong.
I hope every aspect of that rumour is wrong.
I hope every aspect of the rumor is wrong also, but I am begining to feel as if a gun is being held to my head whilst awaiting an outcome from the government. (Give me something or this guy gets it!!!)
If the rumoured route and equipment changes turn out to be true, then those decisions will be the best to have come out of Mascot in a decade! We need a lot more enlightened thought, to be sure.
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Won't be any QF metal transiting SIN to LHR not allowed due EK tie up.
But all not lost J* keeping 3xA330 for SYD/HNL Due 788 useless for freight with high density config.
Something about bean counters,boffins and aircraft don't mix
But all not lost J* keeping 3xA330 for SYD/HNL Due 788 useless for freight with high density config.
Something about bean counters,boffins and aircraft don't mix
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Maybe they cant go SIN to LHR with the tie up but if they did do one flight a day I can fairly confidently say it would perform well, especially if it timed nicely with the other SIN bound services ex Australia....oh wait thats what they used to do....... its much better sitting on the ground in Dubai for 6 hours plus to connect through to Europe....unless your going to London...Im going around in circles now! 
short flights long nights
Why does the tie up prevent Qantas flying SIN LHR?
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" but once Alan has sold the terminals, to fund the redundancy pay outs, Mass sackings all round to improve "the bottom line "
Not if the rumours from a couple of sources are true.
Remember the lock-out back in oct 2011, well according to the rumour that is quoting the Fair Work Act, because of this lock out, it has cut links with Contracts made under the Workplace relations Act 1996, and the on going continuation of such things as generous redundancy provisions.
As a result of the lockout ,according to this rumour and it's interpretation of the fair Work Act there is a period of grace of 2 years for continuation of many aspects of the previous provisions made, after this 24 months grace the Air Pilot Award provisions prevail.
The rumour also suggests the new provisions come into effect 24 months after the handing down of the Determination in May 2013.
So May 2015 is it for cheap retrenchment of pilots?
10 wks pay for 10 plus years of service anyone.
Mass exodus of over 60's now there is no pot of gold VR?
Not if the rumours from a couple of sources are true.
Remember the lock-out back in oct 2011, well according to the rumour that is quoting the Fair Work Act, because of this lock out, it has cut links with Contracts made under the Workplace relations Act 1996, and the on going continuation of such things as generous redundancy provisions.
As a result of the lockout ,according to this rumour and it's interpretation of the fair Work Act there is a period of grace of 2 years for continuation of many aspects of the previous provisions made, after this 24 months grace the Air Pilot Award provisions prevail.
The rumour also suggests the new provisions come into effect 24 months after the handing down of the Determination in May 2013.
So May 2015 is it for cheap retrenchment of pilots?
10 wks pay for 10 plus years of service anyone.
Mass exodus of over 60's now there is no pot of gold VR?
Last edited by blow.n.gasket; 11th Feb 2014 at 09:13. Reason: red wine ingestion.
Lockout was in Oct 2011. But nice theory.
If it was true I cannot imagine them wasting a second to shed the surplus pilots back in November.
And you ascribe craven motives to pilots who choose to continue their jobs past sixty. Have you ever considered that maybe they just hang around to screw you personally?
If it was true I cannot imagine them wasting a second to shed the surplus pilots back in November.
And you ascribe craven motives to pilots who choose to continue their jobs past sixty. Have you ever considered that maybe they just hang around to screw you personally?
Last edited by Australopithecus; 11th Feb 2014 at 09:02.
There was never a Lock Out. It was to occur on Monday night but the dispute was settled by FWA before that. The airline was grounded for effect, to get things moving. It wasn't May 2013 either.
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Sorry Australopithecus, I haven't got a problem what so ever with over 60's,
my profile might have given you a hint to this position as I'm one who has already "gone fishing" permanently .
However I know for a fact a number of my friends hanging out for VR.
I've been telling them they are dreaming.
This rumour only proves it ,if correct.
Sorry if I wasn't clear on my previous post.Had a re-read of the e-mail sent to me.
See editing reason.
It took the " lock out " to trigger the Fair Work provision and the 24 months started with the handing down of the Determination.
Clear as Mud.
PS the e-mail also intimated that only 4 A330's returning and there will be an announcement of a massive expansion of Jetstar come Feb.
my profile might have given you a hint to this position as I'm one who has already "gone fishing" permanently .
However I know for a fact a number of my friends hanging out for VR.
I've been telling them they are dreaming.
This rumour only proves it ,if correct.
Sorry if I wasn't clear on my previous post.Had a re-read of the e-mail sent to me.
See editing reason.
It took the " lock out " to trigger the Fair Work provision and the 24 months started with the handing down of the Determination.
Clear as Mud.
PS the e-mail also intimated that only 4 A330's returning and there will be an announcement of a massive expansion of Jetstar come Feb.
Last edited by blow.n.gasket; 11th Feb 2014 at 09:43. Reason: clarifying previous post
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The latest from Sir Richard.
Virgin’s Richard Branson escalates war of words with Qantas
February 11, 2014 - 3:34PM
Virgin Australia founder Richard Branson claims Qantas boss Alan Joyce is in ‘‘deep ****’’ for sticking to his strategy of maintaining a 65 per cent share of the domestic air travel market.
Renewing his attacks on Virgin’s main rival, Sir Richard has told journalists in Dubai that it would be unfair for the federal government to provide financial assistance to Qantas.
‘‘It would be incredulous if the government can hand over money to him [Mr Joyce] and they don’t hand over money to Virgin Australia,’’ he said.
‘‘Every company in Australia will come begging to the government if the government allowed that to happen.’’
Australia’s two largest airlines have been embroiled in a bitter public spat since November when Qantas demanded the federal government step in to stop Virgin’s big-three airline shareholders – Etihad, Air New Zealand and Singapore Airlines – from tightening their grip on the carrier.
Sir Richard has also told journalists in Dubai that he did not have plans to sell his remaining 10 per cent stake in Virgin Australia.
It differs to his position last year when he would not commit to keeping his holdings in the airline, saying that the branding agreement he has with Virgin was far more crucial to him.
Qantas will renew its lobbying efforts in Canberra this week when Mr Joyce meets senior politicians.
The airline has been seeking financial assistance in the form of a standby debt facility from the government, a move that has so far been met with reservations from Prime Minister Tony Abbott.
Sir Richard said Qantas had lost hundreds of millions of dollars by sticking to its strategy of holding its share of the domestic market at 65 per cent, and ‘‘now [Mr Joyce is] appealing to the government to give him money and holding his hat out like a begging bowl to the government’’.
‘‘Alan Joyce is in deep **** because he drew a line in the sand,’’ he said.
But Qantas hit back at the English businessman’s comments, saying that Virgin often rolled him out to the media to ‘‘distract from their bad news’’.
“Suggesting that Qantas should change its strategy so that Virgin can simply take our customers to reduce their financial losses is ridiculous,’’ a spokesman said on Tuesday.
‘‘As we’ve said many times, Qantas is not asking the government for money. This is in contrast to Virgin, which has been cap in hand to the three foreign-government owned airlines to fund their loss-making strategy. What we’re asking the government for is a level playing field in the domestic aviation market.’’
Sir Richard also claimed big alliances between major airlines such as Qantas and Emirates was stifling competition on routes.
‘‘The regulators have allowed Qantas and Emirates to get together, and so there’s no real competition on that route [between Australia and Dubai],’’ he told the Arabian Business magazine.
“Good government would never have allowed that to happen and you've now got less than a handful of big carriers around the world and prices will go up as a result.’’
Sir Richard’s British airline Virgin Atlantic announced last week that it will ditch flying between Sydney and Hong Kong in May, blaming increasing costs and a weaker Australian dollar.
He put the airline’s losses on the route at about $10 million a year.
‘‘I love going to Australia and the idea of having to go on Qantas or British Airways is going to be very, very painful. But hopefully we'll be back one day,’’ he said.
February 11, 2014 - 3:34PM
Virgin Australia founder Richard Branson claims Qantas boss Alan Joyce is in ‘‘deep ****’’ for sticking to his strategy of maintaining a 65 per cent share of the domestic air travel market.
Renewing his attacks on Virgin’s main rival, Sir Richard has told journalists in Dubai that it would be unfair for the federal government to provide financial assistance to Qantas.
‘‘It would be incredulous if the government can hand over money to him [Mr Joyce] and they don’t hand over money to Virgin Australia,’’ he said.
‘‘Every company in Australia will come begging to the government if the government allowed that to happen.’’
Australia’s two largest airlines have been embroiled in a bitter public spat since November when Qantas demanded the federal government step in to stop Virgin’s big-three airline shareholders – Etihad, Air New Zealand and Singapore Airlines – from tightening their grip on the carrier.
Sir Richard has also told journalists in Dubai that he did not have plans to sell his remaining 10 per cent stake in Virgin Australia.
It differs to his position last year when he would not commit to keeping his holdings in the airline, saying that the branding agreement he has with Virgin was far more crucial to him.
Qantas will renew its lobbying efforts in Canberra this week when Mr Joyce meets senior politicians.
The airline has been seeking financial assistance in the form of a standby debt facility from the government, a move that has so far been met with reservations from Prime Minister Tony Abbott.
Sir Richard said Qantas had lost hundreds of millions of dollars by sticking to its strategy of holding its share of the domestic market at 65 per cent, and ‘‘now [Mr Joyce is] appealing to the government to give him money and holding his hat out like a begging bowl to the government’’.
‘‘Alan Joyce is in deep **** because he drew a line in the sand,’’ he said.
But Qantas hit back at the English businessman’s comments, saying that Virgin often rolled him out to the media to ‘‘distract from their bad news’’.
“Suggesting that Qantas should change its strategy so that Virgin can simply take our customers to reduce their financial losses is ridiculous,’’ a spokesman said on Tuesday.
‘‘As we’ve said many times, Qantas is not asking the government for money. This is in contrast to Virgin, which has been cap in hand to the three foreign-government owned airlines to fund their loss-making strategy. What we’re asking the government for is a level playing field in the domestic aviation market.’’
Sir Richard also claimed big alliances between major airlines such as Qantas and Emirates was stifling competition on routes.
‘‘The regulators have allowed Qantas and Emirates to get together, and so there’s no real competition on that route [between Australia and Dubai],’’ he told the Arabian Business magazine.
“Good government would never have allowed that to happen and you've now got less than a handful of big carriers around the world and prices will go up as a result.’’
Sir Richard’s British airline Virgin Atlantic announced last week that it will ditch flying between Sydney and Hong Kong in May, blaming increasing costs and a weaker Australian dollar.
He put the airline’s losses on the route at about $10 million a year.
‘‘I love going to Australia and the idea of having to go on Qantas or British Airways is going to be very, very painful. But hopefully we'll be back one day,’’ he said.
Sorry Gasket...the dialogue between the under 60’s and over is becoming a touch fraught with the rumours of redundancies. Musical chairs was never a favourite game of mine.
Since aviation revenue is a zero-sum game*, I hope that rumours of JQ expansion are simply the works of agents provacateur. If JQ does expand that must result in further diminishment of the main brand.
*obviously in the short term. But the short term is all that is left to us after years of exploratory mismanagement**
**I get the feeling this this is all one grand experiment probing the reactions of shareholders to executive ineptitude. So far there seem to be no results. So maybe doubling down on failed strategies will provoke a response?
Since aviation revenue is a zero-sum game*, I hope that rumours of JQ expansion are simply the works of agents provacateur. If JQ does expand that must result in further diminishment of the main brand.
*obviously in the short term. But the short term is all that is left to us after years of exploratory mismanagement**
**I get the feeling this this is all one grand experiment probing the reactions of shareholders to executive ineptitude. So far there seem to be no results. So maybe doubling down on failed strategies will provoke a response?
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The e-mail suggested amongst many other things, that the Irishman would announce, come Feb, a make or break bluff with regards to Jetstar and the complete winding back of the International Operation if the Government didn't give him what he wants.
My thoughts were for a one way ticket out of the country, but that would be wishfull thinking!
My thoughts were for a one way ticket out of the country, but that would be wishfull thinking!
short flights long nights
Would International premium passangers accept Jetstar? I can see this be a spiral dive to a crashing end. I mean, if I was going to fly international buisness, I would go EK SQ CX or BA. And there is Thai and Malayasian. I would never choose the Jetstar option, it's not a product I want.
This whole thing stinks. It seems designed to fail. As I have said many times, I just can't figure out why it has been allowed to get this far, and why the shareholders are not asking questions.
This whole thing stinks. It seems designed to fail. As I have said many times, I just can't figure out why it has been allowed to get this far, and why the shareholders are not asking questions.
The 'shareholders' to which you refer are the fund managers I assume. Most of these people are mid 30s metrosexuals who sit in front of a computer screen all day and monitor 100s of equities. Qantas is but one of the many investments in the portfolio they oversee and they really don't have time to be chasing up Alan and the Board to let them know their thoughts. They simply accept what they are told in investor presentations and if QAN doesn't perform, they offload and another fund/private investor moves in on their shareholding.
We are dreaming if we think they are our saviours and they will as the questions we want them to.
We are dreaming if we think they are our saviours and they will as the questions we want them to.
short flights long nights
I'm neither a share holder or an employee. Just a very concerned outsider, which went through 89, and has no desire to see a repeat. But I fear this is sort of where we are heading.
Way back in 1984, in my final MBA year, I achieved a certain notoriety in Economics when we were discussing industrial relations and union behaviour in regard to wages and conditions.
I simply described the then current machinations of Hawke and Co. as : "rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic".
"The recession we had to have" followed Five years later and blew the then "industrial relations club" to kingdom come.
I use the same phrase today to describe the current machinations of Qantas Board and senior management: "rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic". Qantas is going to become increasingly irrelevant to Australian Air transport and the narcissists can see it, but their only response is "65%".
We had advance warning of it in 1995 - eighteen years ago. The Victorian Government, where I was serving at the time, received a long term strategy report - the basic conclusion was that when the major Asian factories and plants that were then being constructed came on line and similar Australian investments reached their "use by" dates, they would not be renewed and instead product would be sourced from Asia.
Qantas no doubt reached the same conclusion, but its response - trying to Asianise itself, was always going to fail. The true solution to Australias woes, and Qantas, is to take itself up market - high service and high tech, with a huge investment in education and technology. Instead Qantas decided to cater to bogans. Off topic, if you want to see what the big miners (and Abbotts) legacy to Australia is going to be, visit Broken Hill.
The recession which is just starting to hit is going to sweep Qantas away, hopefully it will also take with it CASA, equal opportunity and anti discrimination legislation, occupational health bureaucracies and a host of other rent seeking parasites like the last one did.
The entire Qantas "Asian growth" strategy is Qantas downfall. When the Australian dollar hits Fifty cents the engineeering downsizing and outsourcing to overseas MRO's won't look very smart either.
Qantas won't be around to capture inbound tourism growth either, that is if the rioting and social dysfunction this recession is going to cause doesn't kill the tourism industry.
The destruction of the Australian automotive industry is just a taste of what Tony Abbott has in store for you.
Me? I'm retiring to a suitable spot in the country. Plan B, if it all gets too hard, is to take a yacht somewhere nicer for a few years, had a mate who sat out the last recession in the Mediterranean that way.
I simply described the then current machinations of Hawke and Co. as : "rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic".
"The recession we had to have" followed Five years later and blew the then "industrial relations club" to kingdom come.
I use the same phrase today to describe the current machinations of Qantas Board and senior management: "rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic". Qantas is going to become increasingly irrelevant to Australian Air transport and the narcissists can see it, but their only response is "65%".
We had advance warning of it in 1995 - eighteen years ago. The Victorian Government, where I was serving at the time, received a long term strategy report - the basic conclusion was that when the major Asian factories and plants that were then being constructed came on line and similar Australian investments reached their "use by" dates, they would not be renewed and instead product would be sourced from Asia.
Qantas no doubt reached the same conclusion, but its response - trying to Asianise itself, was always going to fail. The true solution to Australias woes, and Qantas, is to take itself up market - high service and high tech, with a huge investment in education and technology. Instead Qantas decided to cater to bogans. Off topic, if you want to see what the big miners (and Abbotts) legacy to Australia is going to be, visit Broken Hill.
The recession which is just starting to hit is going to sweep Qantas away, hopefully it will also take with it CASA, equal opportunity and anti discrimination legislation, occupational health bureaucracies and a host of other rent seeking parasites like the last one did.
The entire Qantas "Asian growth" strategy is Qantas downfall. When the Australian dollar hits Fifty cents the engineeering downsizing and outsourcing to overseas MRO's won't look very smart either.
Qantas won't be around to capture inbound tourism growth either, that is if the rioting and social dysfunction this recession is going to cause doesn't kill the tourism industry.
The destruction of the Australian automotive industry is just a taste of what Tony Abbott has in store for you.
Me? I'm retiring to a suitable spot in the country. Plan B, if it all gets too hard, is to take a yacht somewhere nicer for a few years, had a mate who sat out the last recession in the Mediterranean that way.
Last edited by Sunfish; 11th Feb 2014 at 17:25.