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Truss: Aviation Safety Regulation Review

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Truss: Aviation Safety Regulation Review

Old 10th Sep 2014, 22:23
  #1141 (permalink)  
 
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Location: Styx Houseboat Park.
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There is a way section 4C.

HMHB "I reckon we should all write to the new DAS to address those issues that were ignored or brushed under the carpet. That way certain peoples names will be known very quickly.
For a much better 'double whammy' why not load the ethics committee up first; with names, dates, times and places; the let them do their thing – dismissing those complaints. Then, once their collective heads where in the noose; expose the rotten system for what it is. "What it is" you ask – well it's simple. Those who make up the committee must simply judge whether their own past actions have been fair, reasonable and compliant. Once 'they' have judged themselves 'innocent' of their own crimes; the 'confessions' are signed, sealed and delivered. And that, my friend, you can take to court first and the bank second.

It's a ludicrous, piss-pottical system cynically designed to foster and promote those who twist, manipulate and make mock of the last hope for a fair hearing under AUD$1,000,000, for the victims.

Nothing to loose by trying. Quadrio, for example would make a perfect overture to the symphony.

Toot-toot...
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Old 10th Sep 2014, 22:43
  #1142 (permalink)  
 
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The Canadian Report? I don't see how it can ever be released for one seriously major reason of national security - the MH17 investigation.

The ATSB is balls deep in the investigation of the MH17 shoot down.

The release of any report criticising the probity of the ATSB in the slightest will be pounced on by Russia.

You can bet that the Americans and Canadians would not like that report to be released.

For better or worse, Dolan is now stuck with being a minor player in a situation that has already led to the deaths of thousands of Ukrainians and might even lead to nuclear war.

I don't think he would be enjoying the intense pressure and scrutiny in the slightest.

To put that another way, from the ComCare sleepy hollow to the world stage under the eye of Sauron?
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Old 10th Sep 2014, 23:50
  #1143 (permalink)  
 
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Then The Labor Party should get off their collective arse's and put at ease the public and industry concern for national air safety and bring the matter up in The House of representatives and be prepared to loose a motion of no confidence in The Deputy PM and Minister for things that should be flying and are now grounded. That shouldn't impinge on the "national security" bi-partisan excuse. The Press Gallery, should be prepared to report to the public the simple fact that their lives may be at risk because of a dysfunctional and incompetent CAsA and ATSB. Oh, and "dipsy-dozy" Minister.
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Old 10th Sep 2014, 23:54
  #1144 (permalink)  
 
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It's not sublime it's ridiculous.

Sunny –"The release of any report criticising the probity of the ATSB in the slightest will be pounced on by Russia."
A dab of mild disagreement here Sunny – the Russians are not silly, not by a long shot. Anyone who thinks that Ivan doesn't know or can't find out the brand of jocks Beaker wears or the amount of beard trims per month is deluded. I'd hazard a guess that they have respect for our 'investigators' in the field but none, whatsoever, for our ATSB management, or it's minuscule. Have a read of the MH 370 thread, the clever folk there are already fully aware of the ATSB managements' inability to find a cat, in a cathouse with a candle. ATSB is a bit player in both the MH17 and MH 370 saga.

They have, as we all do a justified faith in Houston and the MSA, but covering the antics of Beaker and tainting the integrity of the fine Canadian TSB is just plain wrong. It would be better to be seen to act; acknowledge the systematic breakdown and look to the national interest first, rather than be seen openly sneaking about the back alleys, trying to cover an open secret.

The only way to stop the sniggering going on in private is to openly admit the problem and rectify it.

Truss is making an international mockery of our Senate, our integrity and restricting our ability to act as a grown up, fully paid up member of the first tier in the aviation hierarchy.

Sunny – "You can bet that the Americans and Canadians would not like that report to be released."
Why would they give a plain or fancy fark if it gets released or not – they know already – and have done since the last FAA audit; reinforced by the Senate report, reinforced by Forsyth and defined by the TSBC. There is no secret to conceal; just ineptitude and the shame, humiliation and embarrassment that brings. Truss and his 'advisors' may be able to shrug off the shame; but it's his reputation that will be damaged along with industry when the FAA are forced to act, because he didn't.

Resign Minister, go sit in the orchestra pit with Albo and the other banjo players. Perhaps you can manage to do that right; with some semblance of honour, piety and probity..
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Old 11th Sep 2014, 12:34
  #1145 (permalink)  
 
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VA protest!

Strong rumour is VA met with the CASA Regional Director this week to complain that the regulatory situation was becoming "unworkable". Thats great diplomacy, but kudos to them for having a voice!
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Old 11th Sep 2014, 12:56
  #1146 (permalink)  
 
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Bet won..!

Made a bet some months ago that the warren truss of a bridge girder would have more "steel" than Warren Truss the mini-miniscule.
Aviation ...WTF is that??
And so it is. Bridges are go.

If he thought the ASRR would be a CAsA covering rabbit he could pull out of his hat, then he is sadly mistaken. If he even realizes the fact.

Q What do you call a guy with a rabbit lodged in his cheeks?
A. Warren

Snakecharma...betcha cant charm any of the vipers in CAsA..!

Bombed a missive re CAsA (vomit) and the good Senators efforts to PUP.
May peek their interest..you never know. The machinations in CBR can be strange and convoluted.

I fly ...and I vote.

And if that doesnt do any good the revolution must come.
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Old 11th Sep 2014, 14:48
  #1147 (permalink)  
 
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Truss and sleepiness

Without stating the obvious, how can Truss be in possession of the AAI, ASRR and TSB reports, which each alone ring alarm bells yet all together? Then publicly state that he'll reply by the end of the year!!!! Aviation safety CAN'T be a priority. But I'm sure we'll hear more of that spin in reply. Pathetic!
Sleep on wazza, watch your portfolio die under YOUR control

Last edited by Jinglie; 11th Sep 2014 at 15:03.
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Old 11th Sep 2014, 15:20
  #1148 (permalink)  
 
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really?

The reason Minister Truss has not responded to this report is because the report is indefensible.
It is an inane rant that lacks any semblance of academic probity.
Because the 'industry' said 'it'; 'it' must be correct.
In all my years in this industry (40+) that I will admit has been spent in most places in the world other than the first 15 years or so in Australia, I am still amazed by the the ridiculous attitude of the couple of people who post on here with such conviction.
Grow up. All the predictions of the 'end of GA'; 'Part 166 will result in more aviation accidents at non controlled airfields'; 'Part 66 will end LAMEs'; Part 61 will kill GA (supposed to be 01Sep14 but now extended to the end of 'the year' by those who know on PPRuNe)
Really?
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Old 11th Sep 2014, 15:35
  #1149 (permalink)  
 
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Really concerned!

Actus,

So I assume your happy with the state of play from the minuscule? I'm no doom-sayer, but it's pretty clear that all is not well. Do you disagree with the AAI and ASRR? if so, name the parts. Tea and bicci's with the Sec tomorrow arvo?
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Old 11th Sep 2014, 15:55
  #1150 (permalink)  
 
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Actus rues or Andre rieus?

Andre,

So who exactly is the author of your comment regarding:
It is an inane rant that lacks any semblance of academic probity.
The Senate, including David Fawcett, ex Empire Test Pilot School, or the ASRR with 3 gents with about 100 years combined in the industry at senior levels?

The IOS respect individuals who can better that, with solid opinion. Up to you?

Hooroo
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Old 11th Sep 2014, 16:26
  #1151 (permalink)  
 
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really?

Jinglie,
This is not a personal issue. The review was supposed to look at all agencies involved in aviation. What about the ATSB report that came out in October 2013 about breakdown in separation events in Australia between 2008 and 2012; what about the inappropriate use on In flight broadcast areas (a third world procedure) that resulted in an 'unknown' Indonesian aircraft 'appearing' in OZ airspace without AsA having any knowledge of it (I seem to recall that was opposite direction, same level as a QF flight), what about Defence totally rejecting the findings re Darwin and other places, what about the countless 'loss of separation assurance' events that AsA has had?
Now, AsA controllers are some of the best in the world; it has not been only their issues. They work in the system that they work in.
But; none of this got into the the 'Forsyth' review.
I guess it is just incidental that Forsyth was the chairman of the AsA board during most of the time when these things were happening?
BTW, who has not been a test pilot?
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Old 11th Sep 2014, 16:57
  #1152 (permalink)  
 
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You have to be pulling my leg!

Andre,

Violin out already? Don't believe any crap the ATSB produce, they've been found inept. As for ASA, great people doing their jobs. I'm aware of numerous issues where the Indonesian's (Angkasa Pura II) have had to correct ASA clearances.
The Indonesian aircraft was probably because all Australia (ASA) could provide was TIBA for international aircraft. That in itself is so sad it's not funny. I spoke to multitudes or foreign carriers pilots who operated into Australia at the time and the common theme was "like being in a GA training area with all sorts of traffic whilst commanding a 400 seat pax A/C, see-and-avoid basically"
Shall we even bother about WLM? A bigger risk!

Last edited by Jinglie; 11th Sep 2014 at 17:10.
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Old 11th Sep 2014, 17:20
  #1153 (permalink)  
 
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Forsyth

Andre,

The reason Forsyth didn't cover ASA is it was an Aviation Safety REGULATORY Review. ASA is a service provider, not a regulator.
I hear a review of ASA is imminent. There are some prominent people in this country who have strong ties with the FAA and EuroControl.

Get the music and violin going. Lots of smiles
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Old 11th Sep 2014, 21:04
  #1154 (permalink)  
 
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Interesting posts Andre, and such strange timing. The heat must really be building in the kitchen? Enjoy the next CASA symphony as I believe "duelling banjo's" is next on the playlist.
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Old 11th Sep 2014, 21:58
  #1155 (permalink)  
 
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The Repcon system - as a weapon.

It is an inane rant that lacks any semblance of academic probity.
Sounds more like criticism of the Pooh-Shambollic CVD diatribe than of the ASR.

Because the 'industry' said 'it'; 'it' must be correct.
Valid point - Before team Truss dreamed up the ASRR (Wet Lettuce Review) to deflect and distract; there was a serious call for a 'judicial' review; to establish the facts. As arscis says, it's all hearsay and has not been tested. All seems passing strange until you realise that once any sort 'real' independent assessment of 'evidence' was made, there would be a very large, very public outcry. The wasted money alone, not to mention the carnage, the corruption and the incompetence; all proven beyond reasonable doubt would have the FAA and probably every other NAA in Australia doing audits. But, Truss won't accept that challenge, he dare not; he'll hide behind the smoke, mirrors and Machiavellian whispers, which are his preferred tools of trade.

Anyway – no matter; once the cabinet is shuffled; he can simply revert to being irrelevant window dressing, anchoring the Qld votes before shuffling off to the nearest five star nursing home to enjoy his dotage. There to indulge in porridge dribbling, laxatives and boring witless anyone he can corner, with tales of political 'derring do'. Can't come soon enough.

= = = = = = = = = == = =
BRB report:-

Good turn out last night, great ipad video of our 'John and Libby' holding hands and cooing in the front seats of a DHC8 – some people really are very naughty. The happy couple may not be front page of the Telegraph news, but they are a feature of many a ribald comment, two limericks and generally a source of great amusement to the BRB. The –U-bend Tube option was considered but voted down; the 'vision' being enjoyed far too much to share.

Once that ribald episode settled down and the last chuckles dissipated, the first main topic for discussion was what options were available to David Fawcett? Although David Fawcett is enmeshed and constrained by 'party', the consensus was that his patience must just about be exhausted. There is it seems (as we understand it) a mountain of complaint 'paperwork' against CASA, McComic and his happy little band. Too much for one man to deal with, too serious to dismiss and with no clear offer of assistance from the minuscule; a problem.

The unanimous vote went to his calling for a full dress inquiry into the mountain of complaints lodged against CASA, by a frustrated industry with nowhere else to go, but to his front door. As it's not 'his' problem, a call for an inquiry would garner solid bi-partisan support from the committee and could force an inquiry. More to follow we thought...

Item last – REPCON. The BRB were (strangely) once again unanimous. The proposal to send a REPCON to every NAA which has passengers travelling to Australia and using domestic air services was fully supported. The elements of the submission defining that there are some 60 odd, independently identified, deficiencies within the Australian system, which despite industries best efforts, the government have failed or are unwilling to address. The submission recommends that all external NAA initiate an audit process to ensure the safety of their nationals within Australian airspace. Particularly regarding insurance issues.

As it's a 'big' move; the BRB suggested that before PAIN was turned loose and the REPCON generated, a straw pole of opinion from PPRuNe readers should be called for.

So – what say you Ppruners?.. Repcon or repercussions??

Toot toot

Last edited by Kharon; 11th Sep 2014 at 22:51.
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Old 11th Sep 2014, 23:54
  #1156 (permalink)  
 
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Actus Reus your suggestion that criticism of CASA and the regulations is merely froth and bubble is simply wrong. CASA is a monster that is costing Australia jobs, growth and investment in the entire Aviation sector.

Contrary to popular opinion, I am not an "industry insider". My career has been mostly in other fields but with a smattering of Aviation. I perhaps unwisely decided to learn to fly before studying the regulatory landscape, for if I had, I probably would have invested in learning Golf. However despite coming from other fields, including a short stint working for Government and time as a CEO and in various general management positions. I failed to do my due diligence on the regulatory environment because by and large Australian regulations are well written and conscientiously and honestly administered(outside NSW). What I found in aviation simply stank.

When I first started reading the regulations, they didn't pass the smell test. Simple I thought, I'm not holding my mouth right, there must be a magic key to interpreting this minefield that I don't yet have. Well Reus, I still don't have it, and nobody else does either. The regulations are deliberately confusing, imprecise and far more complex than required.

What I then discovered, from a variety of sources, is that the regulations are capriciously applied, as evidenced in the continuing stream of AAT cases, including the case of a man who was stripped of his job and licence on the flimsy basis of a Youtube video.

What I then noticed was the deliberate cruelty and regulatory bastardry as evidenced by the predilection of the regulator to take action on the late afternoon of a Friday or the day before a public holiday, which is the legal equivalent of shoving a turd in someone’s mailbox. CASA is supposed to behave as a model litigant. It doesn't.

To put that another way Reus; what sort of complete arsehole grounds an airline on Christmas Eve?

I will not bore you with further tales of the casual, and perhaps even deliberate cruelty and mismanagement of CASA and its ongoing self serving parasitic destruction of aviation. You are simply wrong.
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Old 11th Sep 2014, 23:54
  #1157 (permalink)  
 
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actus reus

Interesting handle. May have relevance in precedent to our own regulators who appear to have left the gate open;




Pittwood R v Wright J:
[Murder the actus reus of - omissions- duty under a contract]
D was a level crossing keeper who negligently left open the crossing gate. This led to the death of a carter whose cart was struck by a train.

Held: D had a duty (arising from his contract of employment) to shut the gate, and although this duty was owed to his employers rather than to the public at large, it was enough that his negligent failure to act could lead to conviction.

Guilty of manslaughter
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Old 12th Sep 2014, 00:02
  #1158 (permalink)  
 
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Snoop REPCON & Cabinet reshuffle rumour??

Kharon - Anyway no matter; once the cabinet is shuffled; he can simply revert to being irrelevant window dressing, anchoring the Qld votes before shuffling off to the nearest five star nursing home to enjoy his dotage. There to indulge in porridge dribbling, laxatives and boring witless anyone he can corner, with tales of political 'derring do'. Can't come soon enough.
Apparently there is a rumour floating around in the Cantberra MSM press scrum of a cabinet reshuffle... Caught this on the tail end of a 7:30 Leigh interview of the man with perhaps the worst job on the Govt front bench..:
Scott Morrison talks to Leigh Sales about terrorism and national security

SCOTT MORRISON: I think it's simply the transition of events. And as I said, David Irvine, as the Director-General, makes these assessments independently. These aren't decisions made by politicians. He is there to set those threat levels and that's what he has been commenting on. Now the Government has been receiving advice from our agencies about the emerging threat and we've been responding to that and we've been, I think, very upfront with the Australian people about that.

LEIGH SALES: Briefly before you go, there are rumours of a potential reshuffle in the Abbott frontbench. Are you ready to move on from Immigration?

SCOTT MORRISON: I'm totally committed to the job that I have in front of me. We have not yet fully stopped the boats, but the boats are stopping and there are the many threats across the border that I've referred to today in my speech. These matters are always for the Prime Minister to determine, but he has a very strong team and we've had a very strong year.

LEIGH SALES: Do you consider that you deserve a reward for the progress you've made in stopping the boats?

SCOTT MORRISON: To be able to be able to do what we said we'd do and get the results that we said we would get, that is the satisfaction I take from the job.

LEIGH SALES: Scott Morrison, thank you.

SCOTT MORRISON: Thanks, Leigh.
Hmm...S&M assigned to sort out the aviation imbroglio, that I would like to see as there is no denying that the man is a definite doer.. Then again he could simply decide to deport all the IOS & GWM to Manus to sort it out or be stuck there indefinitely...
As it's a 'big' move; the BRB suggested that before PAIN was turned loose and the REPCON generated, a straw pole of opinion from PPRuNe readers should be called for.
Got my vote.. Although it would be helpful if we could get a leaked version of the TSBC report before exposing to the world...

Perhaps Julian can help us out??

Hmm..anyone fluent in Mandarin...: CHINA - Sino Confidential Aviation Safety reporting System (SCASS) [2004]

MTF...
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Old 12th Sep 2014, 01:39
  #1159 (permalink)  
 
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the inca hierarchy were convinced that the sun wouldn't come up again unless a beating heart was offered in sacrifice each sunset.

I notice that despite the demise of the incas the sun still rises every morning.

CAsA should be the subject of a Royal Commission.

the royal commission needs to sort out what level of oversight of safety is actually needed.
the royal commission needs to investigate the history of regulatory bastardry and correct it.


If CAsA was abolished tomorrow THERE WOULD BE NO SAFETY DETRIMENT.
most, if not all, the experienced people in aviation pay no real heed to their nonsense at all anyway. lip service is not obedience. never was.
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Old 12th Sep 2014, 07:08
  #1160 (permalink)  
 
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RIGHT ON THE MONEY... A ROYAL COMMISSION

DUBYA...AT THIS POINT... ITS THE ONLY WAY TO GO....

SO WHAT IF IT COSTS 2O MIL..CHICKEN FEED COMPARED TO THE 100S OF MILLIONS WASTED AND 6 MIL WAS IT FOR THE SKULL YEARS.
VERY POOR VALUE FOR MONEY THERE, IMO...BUT WHATS NEW.

HEARD THAT THE AG RECKONS CAsA is out on its own and nothing can be done by the Government.!! Hullo? Do we have a Soviet state separate from the Commonwealth. I dont think so...but thats what it smells like.
AND WHAT A STENCH IT IS.

ONLY A ROYAL COMMISSION CAN LIFT THE LID AND CLEAR THE AIR.

BRING IT ON.!
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