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Truss: Aviation Safety Regulation Review

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Truss: Aviation Safety Regulation Review

Old 18th Nov 2013, 07:32
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Gosh, all of that ‘grilling’ must have had the officials quaking in their boots. Yet they walked away (again) with their jobs. If only the government had the power to do something other than wave a rhetorical fist at these evil fiends.

So anyway, now that anyone with any sense has worked out that the new government is going to do as much as the old government about aviation regulation and accident investigation, where to next?

Think hard. (For Sunfish: The children in PM&C are dealing with the important issues: “stopping the boats” (full of the people who keep Australia’s toilets clean and bins emptied); “axing the tax” (so that everyone’s power bill can go down but remain the same); and “doing this, that, and the other thing” (so that you’ll all finally be deliriously happy).

Where to next?
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Old 18th Nov 2013, 14:29
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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maybe you should approach it the way they sometimes do in thailand.
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Old 18th Nov 2013, 19:39
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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QON is the new black?

Well it certainly seems like The Heff has had a gutful of Fort Fumbles folly. The amount of QON's being rolled out by The Angry Man and Mrdak was unbelievable. Typical arrogant obsfucation and stalling tactics. I wonder if The Guinness Book of Records will accept submissions for the category 'Government department stalling tactics' and accept the tally of QON's collated from senate estimates and senate inquiries?

And what about bi bi bi Beakers performance? It was nothing short of embarrassing. That is one man completely out of his league. If ever an individual was meant to walk 'the green mile' it is him. Kim Bills and Alan Stray would be choking on their cereal watching Beakers performance. He was like a Pel Air aircraft off Norfolk - made a number of robust attempts to land smoothly but ditched and sunk.

I am seriously hoping that yesterday was just a practise run, a warm up before the Senators cut loose! Will we see the outcome we all so dearly want and deserve to see? Dunno. But we will be entertained by the fireworks that lay in wait? I reckon so! I would say these Muppets should stock up on anusole wipes and salve because I suspect these clowns are going to receive a sideways pineapple , so it should be a good show.

Checklist;
1) Beer
2) Popcorn
3) Comfy recliner chair
4) Body bags
5) Additional crate of pineapples
6) 2 boxes of Kleenex to wipe away the tears of laughter
7) Additional supply of pot plant fertiliser to ensure Pete isn't neglected during those long estimates sessions
8) Screaming Skull piñata for fun during the commercial breaks
9) 'Body language reference book'. This is always a good tool to keep handy and use as a reference guide to gauge the level, depth and consistency of the shite dribbling from FF's mouths. (No extra pressure boys, but the IOS are watching closely )
10) QON counter clock for tracking the amount of QON's that those beneath the robust spotlight turn to in an effort to avoid answering questions and avoid telling facts and truth.

'Safe questioning for all'
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Old 18th Nov 2013, 20:29
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Creamy, you really are a 'trough half empty' kind of guy
Actually, my trough runneth over. That’s probably because my strategic plans are based on realistic assumptions, rather than credulous enthusiasm for words out of politicians’ mouths.

The only glimmer of hope is professional lobbying of the people who will be non-major party aligned Senators with effect 1 July 2014.
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Old 18th Nov 2013, 21:50
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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This whole farce could make a good drinking game, I'll get the ball rolling,

1. Everytime CASA take a QON you take a shot
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Old 19th Nov 2013, 07:36
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Creampuff
So anyway, now that anyone with any sense has worked out that the new government is going to do as much as the old government about aviation regulation and accident investigation, where to next?
The rot had well and truly set by the end of the Howard years. Truss did nothing about it last time he was in that job, nor did Vaile. I don't expect we'll see much more out of Truss than we saw from Albo.

Neither side of politics particularly cares about aviation.
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Old 19th Nov 2013, 09:37
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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I dont know that they dont care. probably more that they dont really understand much of it.
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Old 19th Nov 2013, 19:22
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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Wait until a QF A380 goes into Botany Bay, then they'll care and not before.
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Old 19th Nov 2013, 19:35
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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They’ll also pretend to care if the non-major party aligned Senators make their support of some government pet project contingent upon some trade-off in the aviation sector.

For example, just imagine if the non-major party aligned Senators asked to talk to Minister Truss and his National Party colleagues about the sale of GrainCorp to Archer Daniels Midland. The Minister would give the non-major party aligned Senators anything they wished in return for rejection or overturning of an FIRB approval to sell.
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Old 20th Nov 2013, 02:20
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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Interesting bit. Is push – coming to shove?

Estimates Hansard 18/11/13 P.77 PDF- P.73 Hansard. (My bold). Sorry the quotes are in BLUE - having some serious issues with format and spacing.

CHAIR: Have they announced the panel?

Mr Mrdak: Yes, they have. The panel was announced last week. The minister made a statement to the House—a ministerial statement—and he announced the composition of the panel, which will be chaired by Mr David Forsyth from Australia. The panel is Mr Forsyth; Mr Don Spruston, former head of aviation safety in Canada; and Mr Roger Whitefield.

Senator XENOPHON: Mr Mrdak, can you advise whether the panel will hold public hearings or private hearings or a combination of both? Will there be an opportunity for those who participated extensively in the Senate inquiry to also give evidence to this particular panel?

Mr Mrdak: My understanding is that the intention of the panel is that they will seek public submissions and meetings with interested parties, to which there will be an open process. How they wish to take other information will be settled by the panel when they first meet and discuss—

Senator XENOPHON: If this committee was minded to resolve to request a meeting with the panel, would they take that into account?

Mr Mrdak: Yes, I would imagine so.

Senator XENOPHON: If there is evidence given to the panel would it be covered by any form of privilege? That is very important. If it is not covered by privilege you may find that people are not prepared to come forward to give evidence.

Mr Mrdak: Clearly, the panel will have to establish arrangements, particularly for taking evidence where people wish to protect certain confidential material. That is one of the areas the department will work—

Senator XENOPHON: Confidentiality is difference from privilege, though.

Mr Mrdak: I do not think a panel of this nature could offer privilege in the same way that the parliament can.

CHAIR: Witnesses to this particular panel—and I am sure Dick Smith would like to make a presentation given that he is not on it—would want to know with confidence they would not be intimidated because of the evidence that they give, which is one of the protections of course which this committee offers. But there will be none of those protections, to the best of your knowledge?

Mr Mrdak: We are now exploring the way in which we will provide protection of confidential material. I am sure the panel will be very concerned to ensure that there is protection of both material and evidence being provided to it—or certainly submissions being provided to it. But, clearly, a panel of this nature cannot provide something of the form of privilege in a way that you would understand it for a parliamentary committee.

CHAIR: Would it be peculiar to provide privilege for that panel to appear before this committee so that there would be privilege?

Mr Mrdak: That would be a matter that we would have to explore.

CHAIR: Can I invite you to invite the panel to appear before this committee and give us the answer? We would like it to appear because, if we are going to do this properly without fear or favour, I think we would offer the opportunity of privilege.

Mr Mrdak: I will seek some advice, Chair, in relation to how the panel may interact with the committee.

CHAIR: We could start with a private briefing.

Senator Sinodinos: Can I just caution on this. When the minister made his statement, I think he made it clear that this was looking at systemic and strategic issues. It was not meant to reopen every investigation that has occurred or to pursue individual grievances.

CHAIR: That is all right, but there are systemic issues.

Senator Sinodinos: I understand that, but as long as we all understand that it will be not so much focused on the specific but drawing out from the specific what general lessons there might be. It is not a forum to reopen individual investigations.

Senator XENOPHON: But, Minister, with respect, the Senate unanimously handed down its findings, and they were scathing findings by any objective measure. It was a damning report of CASA and the ATSB—absolutely damning. No-one can criticise the methodology of the committee and the forensic work that the committee put into this.

Insofar as there are a number of recommendations made based on what the committee found to be very serious failures in respect of the Pel-Air investigation, then surely that is relevant in looking at systemic failures on the part of CASA and the ATSB.

Senator SINODINOS: I do not think we are talking at cross-purposes. I am just saying that this is not a forum to replay the whole of that investigation.

Senator XENOPHON: Yes, but insofar as the Senate made a number of recommendations that were scathing of the ATSB and CASA—

Senator SINODINOS: All of which is on the public record.

Senator XENOPHON: from my point of view we do not want it swept under the carpet. There is a genuine concern by all members of this committee about airline safety in this country.

CHAIR: There was some dramatic downgrade of the incident.

Senator XENOPHON: That is right.

CHAIR: What was it from?

Senator XENOPHON: It went from being a safety issue identified as critical to being downgraded significantly. That is something that Senator Fawcett asked many questions about. There were issues about whether CASA and the ATSB colluded or not. That was raised. Can I remind the minister that the committee took such a serious view of this that it referred the evidence to the Federal Police for investigation into whether there was a breach of the TIA legislation.

Senator SINODINOS: I think we are in furious agreement.

Senator XENOPHON: I still do not know how the panel is going to do its job if it does not give privilege to people.

Senator SINODINOS: Having listened to all of this, we will go away and get advice on how we can handle this in a way that means that—

Senator XENOPHON: If you can.

I'll have 10 bob on the Senators, keep the beggers honest.... ...

Last edited by Kharon; 20th Nov 2013 at 02:23. Reason: Quick vote - early beer o'clock - the Ayes have it.
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Old 20th Nov 2013, 10:36
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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WTF is Sinodinos doing on that panel? He was Howard's right hand man and the Libs really don't want to cause a stir. At least Heff, Xenophon give a Fck.
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Old 20th Nov 2013, 19:15
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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It's a worry.

Hi # 37 –"WTF is Sinodinos doing on that panel?"
It's a good question and valid for much of what's going on with this review. But I'll keep my money on the Senators, they can see what's happening; those with the most to fear and loose have the controls and if they are allowed to keep them, prepare for yet another roll of soft white paper being delivered to industry. Not that I'm religious, but I send a word to the gods of sanity and justice every morning, just in case. Not holding my breath either....
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Old 20th Nov 2013, 19:39
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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The Honourable Arthur Sinodinos AO, Assistant Treasurer, was not “on the panel”. He was there as a witness, representing the Minister for Infrastructure and Regional Development (who is a member of the House of Reps and therefore does not condescend to appear before a Committee comprising unrepresentative swill).

The Minister representing’s job was to do what his tweedle dum predecessor from Labor did: Defend CASA and ATSB.

If you think about it, you’ll realise it’s all just theatrics. A bunch of Coalition Senators on the Committee are ‘outraged’ at the conduct of CASA and ATSB in relation to the Pel Air matter. Enter stage left a Coalition Minister and his senior officials from the Department with portfolio responsibility for CASA and ATSB, all saying ‘relax, it’s all under control’. If you took the names and dates out of Hansard, you would not be able to tell there had been a change of government.
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Old 20th Nov 2013, 20:54
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Creampuff;

An accurate assessment, which is what some of the players want to hear, but it's not what is needed to fix a broken "thing" (and I use "thing" for impact). I work on the theory of maintaining an irritant until someone starts to scratch. The IOS are quiet capable of throwing more flea's onto the dog yet and until the fat lady sings it isn't over. While CASA loom menacingly on the horizon, it pays to nip the problem in the bud and put the shoe on the other foot so we can clean the rot and make the place clean as a whistle.

So at least it's something that is being done.

The "thing" can only be attacked at a political level. Think about that.

Last edited by Frank Arouet; 20th Nov 2013 at 20:56. Reason: mixed metaphors gathering moss.
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Old 20th Nov 2013, 21:48
  #35 (permalink)  
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Devil Frank

Hi Frank,

Just wondering if you could please edit your post.

There simply are not enough mixed metaphors or cliches in there. Please insert some more and try harder next time.
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Old 20th Nov 2013, 22:19
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Devil Wazza's IOS membership review pending??

Frank:
An accurate assessment, which is what some of the players want to hear, but it's not what is needed to fix a broken "thing" (and I use "thing" for impact). I work on the theory of maintaining an irritant until someone starts to scratch. The IOS are quiet capable of throwing more flea's onto the dog yet and until the fat lady sings it isn't over. While CASA loom menacingly on the horizon, it pays to nip the problem in the bud and put the shoe on the other foot so we can clean the rot and make the place clean as a whistle.
Love it Frank! Flea's and dogs..hmm don't wascily wabbits also sometimes get afflicted with fleas, maybe the minister should call in Flick to fumigate the FF wabbit warren??

By the way the semi-disgraced old bugger MP on the end of the railway track has submitted the following in support of his IOS membership submission :
FNQ aviation industry urged to speak up

THE Australian Government’s Aviation Safety Regulation Review will give local aviation businesses the opportunity to expose CASA’s regulatory and procedural failures, says Leichhardt MP Warren Entsch.

The Hon Warren Truss MP, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Infrastructure and Regional Development, has recently released the review’s Terms of Reference.

“I welcome the minister’s Review,” Mr Entsch said today.

“The Terms of Reference outline how the panel will consult closely with general aviation, industry and public stakeholders. This will provide an opportunity for operators like Barrier Aviation – and others from around Australia who have contacted me – to provide information on the appalling way in which they have been treated by CASA officers.

“The fact that they will be dealing with a panel of well-respected overseas experts should mean that at least they will get a fair hearing, unlike the blatant prejudice to which they’ve been subjected to date.”

Mr Entsch has used Barrier Aviation for many years and the airline's suspension as a result of a drawn-out CASA inquiry has had a significant impact on charter availability around the Far North.(NB: accompanying text with the pic)

Mr Entsch said the Government had a clear policy of reducing the cost of regulation to business and this goal will be part of the review.

“It’ll also examine the matters that were raised by the Senate Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport Committee’s Inquiry into Aviation Accident Investigations. I know that a number of issues with our air safety regime were highlighted and there needs to be further consideration of those.”

The review will examine how well Australia’s regulatory system is positioned to ensure we remain at the forefront of aviation safety globally. It will consider the structures, effectiveness and processes of all agencies involved in aviation safety, and the relationships and interactions of those agencies as they work together in one system.

It will also consider the outcomes and direction of the regulatory reform process undertaken by CASA and it will benchmark our safety regulations and regulatory system against other leading countries.

A period of public consultation will take place over coming months and the Panel will report its findings in May 2014.

“I would absolutely encourage anyone who has had an issue with CASA procedures - and in particular their officers - to put in a submission,” Mr Entsch said.

“In addition, if they have experienced repeated and unresolved problems with individuals within CASA, they can give evidence in Canberra and name them. Testimony will be subject to parliamentary privilege and cannot be intimidated by legal threats.”

To view the full Terms of Reference, click here
Hmm..he's got my vote!
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Old 20th Nov 2013, 22:38
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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And do you know how many times Mr Entsch has uttered the same empty rhetoric over the last couple of decades, with only the name of the operator changing?

Mr Entsch is part of the problem. He’s part of yet another government that does not want to govern CASA and the ATSB.

The problem will persist while ever ostensibly intelligent people welcome, with credulous enthusiasm, mere hot air out of politicians’ mouths.

Yes Frank, I’ll stick my neck out on a limb (that’s a mixed metaphor; yours are merely consecutive metaphors) and agree that “the thing can only be attacked at a political level”. But given the substantial weaknesses of GA as a political force, the attack must be very professional and very focussed if it is to have any chance of bringing about substantial change.
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Old 20th Nov 2013, 23:38
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Creampuff;

Any semblance of a GA political force went in 2004. Since then doors have been closed then locked because of the actions of a few egotists. One notable who used to post here being declared Persona Non Grata in a CASA internal memo and another dragging a once effective organization down to silence and obedience.

The IOS appear to be doing what they failed to do, so you really should give some credit where it's due. One individual, (marginally attached by common direction of purpose), still has political doors open to him and has to act individually to maintain some form of credibility but he is often open to the flank of industry who wish to live off the teat of the regulator.

Mr Entsch has uttered the same empty rhetoric over the last couple of decades
For clarity of your purpose in making these assertions can you give references to qualify these utterances, otherwise you become guilty of the same political spin which is dictated when saying the same thing over and over until it becomes fact.

Frank, I’ll stick my neck out on a limb
Indeed where it may gather birds of a feather.

“I would absolutely encourage anyone who has had an issue with CASA procedures - and in particular their officers - to put in a submission,”
This appears to answer the question on whether "old" matters would be entertained.

Testimony will be subject to parliamentary privilege and cannot be intimidated by legal threats.”
This answers the other concern I guess?

Metaphorically speaking that is.

Last edited by Frank Arouet; 20th Nov 2013 at 23:40. Reason: I forgot.
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Old 21st Nov 2013, 00:08
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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For clarity of your purpose in making these assertions can you give references to qualify these utterances, otherwise you become guilty of the same political spin which is dictated when saying the same thing over and over until it becomes fact.
Have you heard of “Hansard”?

Random pick:
Mr ENTSCH (11:37 AM) —I rise today to again speak on an issue that I have raised with monotonous regularity in this House regarding the competency of CASA and the way in which they are dealing with some of the operators in my electorate. I will give you two examples: one is from a company, Lip-air Proprietary Ltd, that operates out of the Torres Strait. …
26 August, 1999.

If only governments had power to do something other than wave a rhetorical fist at the regulator. Oh, wait….

You are, of course, free to welcome, with credulous enthusiasm, the same hot air out of the same mouth, some 14 years later.
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Old 21st Nov 2013, 05:18
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Have you heard of “Hansard”?
Yes, and I also have a local phone book and minutes of the Local Government monthly meeting. I'm working on The CWA.

The problem is if you refer to any you need either a date, a subject, a name, place or event. A random pick doesn't qualify to prove empty rhetoric over the last couple of decades.... or Mrs Smiths washing, especially her whites, are habitually a disgrace to her street.

I personally don't care how often Entsch says it, the fact is "SOMETHING" is being said and done. We can only hope "SOMETHING COMES OF IT"..... don't we?

Entsch and Lip-air.... Now there is a rhetorical oxymoron and is difficult to expand on here without ruffling political feathers of a conservative nature. Lets not remember The Alamo, lets remember Cape York Air.

No..... better we remember the Agents Provocateurs, CASA.
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