Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Qlink's future.

Old 28th Apr 2013, 05:13
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Qlink's future.

Recently a couple of senior pilots from EK with Boeing widebody time joined Qantaslink. They haven't joined to fly turboprops.

6 months ago 2 pilots left JQ to join Qantaslink in very senior positions.

Qantas Short Haul EBA is being negotiated.

Rumour has it, the 787's are to join Qantaslink. Not A320's or A319's as everyone thought earlier.

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Old 28th Apr 2013, 05:32
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a family friend in the top 20 at qlink said something to me recently...

"mate we have been getting jets next year for the last 25 years"

if mainline wanted to get rid of pilots, they would have done it already. they need us. it was all about getting the best possible deal for the company before the 787 shows up. the next negotiations will show this as well.

of course....if we had a group seniority list then it wouldn't matter what part of the group they went to....
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Old 28th Apr 2013, 05:34
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Hahahahhaa hahaha haHa ha
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Old 28th Apr 2013, 05:39
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IMHO I would be very surprised, When these individuals were interviewed for said positions, surely it would have been a discussion point during the interview process that "The Group" is evaluating putting the B787 into QLINK and what can "you" bring to the table??

And having said that, "loose lips sink ships" as the saying goes. And again surely if these discussions did infact transpire, then there would be some kind of "leak" or rumours circulating to the effect.

Just my HO of course, but the entire Seniority system and introduction of a new type onto an existing AOC with said very regimented seniority structure would not be worth the grief from the Company's point of view. A "Greenfields" set up would be a whole lot less hassle btw! If not, there is already another "Group" AOC which has HC Jet Ops already on it. Is it a coincidence that this AOC Holder is currently in the process of seeking RPT Approval from CASA???????
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Old 28th Apr 2013, 05:45
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A319's to leisure destinations & regional ports with QF livery & Link dropped from the signage.

Operating out of QF domestic terminal with an all economy cabin.

Oh hold on, wouldn't that compliment the mainline brand & compete with another subsidiary?

Compliments the internal banter I heard recently of mainline to QFlink LOA available for mainline drivers.

Lyell Strambie's pulling the strings at QFlink.


Last edited by Mstr Caution; 28th Apr 2013 at 05:53.
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Old 28th Apr 2013, 05:53
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Clarity required me thinks...

Recently a couple of senior pilots from EK with Boeing widebody time joined Qantaslink. They haven't joined to fly turboprops
An opportunity to get back home to Oz perhaps?

6 months ago 2 pilots left JQ to join Qantaslink in very senior positions
They were seconded into management positions (CP and CAR217 manager) because the previous management, famously 'The Bankstown Aero Club' couldn't handle a growing airline with a GA mindset. Q400 and its 'Jet-Like Speed' with C402 SOPs . Oh and they were constantly re-inventing the wheel again...and again...and again...and again...

Qantas Short Haul EBA is being negotiated
So is the Eastern EBA this year, which means FK all. I would say the 787 will be appended on the SH EBA...don't know if or is legal regarding the clauses in the LH EBA. Anyone care to elaborate? Keg?

And finally,

the 787's are to join Qantaslink
Have you been in the diesel oil again Wedcue?

On a side note though...
if we had a group seniority list then it wouldn't matter what part of the group they went to
I find this a common topic being sprouted by Mainline drivers far more often the those in the regionals. We've all been part of a happy family for all of what...20 years? Since the merger of '93 (TN/QF). Group seniority from the regionals was approached to and subsequently shot down in flames with the ashes shat on and buried by the then upper echelons of the mainline piloting fraternity. So my question is why are the mainline drivers purporting this notion only now? The cynical me looks at the fact the QF drivers' careers/livelihoods is being threatened and SSA/EAA appears to be going nowhere but up. The merger was before my time so the politics of yesteryear shouldn't be factored into today's argument.

Keep the responses civil kids...


Last edited by Fuel-Off; 28th Apr 2013 at 06:29.
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Old 28th Apr 2013, 06:00
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Didn't Strambie come out & say in the last fortnight or so he wants QF branded 787's flown by mainline pilots.

I have long been a supporter of a group seniority list because its the fairest system to provide promotional opportunities for all pilots in the Qantas group.
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Old 28th Apr 2013, 06:20
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re strambie, apparently so!
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Old 28th Apr 2013, 08:47
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Goodonyamate - very naive post!

Qlink will be a force in the next few years. As for needing us Mainline pilots - they won't need us as much when Qlink have Jets...
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Old 28th Apr 2013, 10:12
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Setting up a cheaper operation is not as simple as just getting a cheaper group of pilots. Eventually the group of pilots want to be paid what their counterparts overseas are being paid, or they start leaving. The exception is a small market such as NZ, where they have limited success.

QF are smart enough to know this, and they know that they can get the 787 crewed for market rates (current somewhere between 767 & A330 rates would be a good guess). They know they need to pilots to crew it, although exec management are not feeding much information down the chain to those who set establishment levels. QF currently have the benefit of being able to use pilots leave balances with twofold benefits : 1) they reduce their liability, 2) they get to hang on to the crew they need down the track. Why would they make pilots redundant if they can reduce leave balances whilst keeping a sufficient level of crew for a probable future expansion plan.

They would have gotten rid of pilots by now if they didn't need them on an ongoing basis and both we and they know that if they did try to crew it cheaper, it would be a very expensive fight with little longer term gain.

Qlink do a great job at what they do and where they fly. I don't know if they will end up getting small jets, but I'm pretty confident they won't become a long haul operation overnight sometime in 2016.

Last edited by OneDotLow; 28th Apr 2013 at 10:13.
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Old 28th Apr 2013, 11:11
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I too wonder about said pilots and their real reasons for joining 'The Link'.

I was at a BBQ recently and a few of us found ourselves discussing said developments at 'The Link' and can confirm that one of the guys present who isn't quite in a senior management position but has his finger on the pulse reckons that there have been a few guys join lately that have said widebody experience.

Methinks there could be some interesting times ahead

Watch this space.
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Old 28th Apr 2013, 11:19
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Crap, bull and rubbish.

So, some EK Pilots decide to grab a job in Oz at management level on fair pay and you think that means QLink are getting Jets!!

Maybe these Pilots just wanted a reasonable job back home and this is what they could get. Not much else on offer especially if you like the management lifestyle.

2+2 doesn't = 5.

Last edited by nitpicker330; 28th Apr 2013 at 11:21.
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Old 28th Apr 2013, 11:20
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Ahh now I get it you give Jetstar some Q400s to run domestic in NZ for a direct swap of some A320s.
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Old 28th Apr 2013, 11:35
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I guess the rumors get wild when a company has no leadership or direction.
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Old 28th Apr 2013, 12:15
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Rumours get wild when management keep their cards very close to their chest. JG has openly said new jet equipment will be sourced and utilised in the future to meet capacity requirements. As to who crews them...that's another story.

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Old 28th Apr 2013, 12:17
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EK guys wanting to come home (and that's most of them after about 7 years) will take just about anything if there is a base that suits them. Any "shiny jet syndrome" is well and truly worn off - and would happily swap a depressing 0200 departure for a solar powered Q400.

Good wind up, but I wouldn't read anything more into it.
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Old 28th Apr 2013, 13:41
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So my question is why are the mainline drivers purporting this notion only now?
Fuel-Off. You're new to prune compare to some of us. A lot went on in the decade before you joined- although I do acknowledge the possibility of a different handle. If you've been around a while though, surely you would have read QF pilots agitating for a group list long ago? Heck, it was a formal part of our EBA submission in 2007 and 2008. So lets drop the 'only now' stuff. Some of us have been banging on about it for nearly a decade and a half.

As to the 787 being negotiated on the SH EA? I wouldn't think so. There are already provisions in the LH EA around the introduction of new types. FWA basically told QF and AIPA to negotiate 787 rates when they start negotiating again for the EA to commence from 2015.
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Old 29th Apr 2013, 01:16
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Thanks Keg for that clarification. Let's hope something decent comes out of the EA negotiations in '15.

I'm a long time reader (been in the industry for about 15 years), recent poster here at prune and like yourself have noticed a change to a want for group seniority. As for the 'only now' stuff, I think that may have been misconstrued as something said in cynicism, that wasn't the intent. Perhaps a politically neutral phrase like 'in recent times' is more apt.

So we know the whole jet thing is a red herring. A318/A319 is plausible..ish. 787 is stuff worthy of a Benny Hill sketch.

QF Group seniority has been brought up in these forums time and time again with all of them disintegrating into belligerent, petty squabbles with at least one group accusing the other of doing something over 20 years ago and apparently that's the reason we can't change something for the better NOW. Is it possible for both AIPA and AFAP to approach the table with a clean slate and start deliberating on how group seniority can work for our future ranks of pilots? No self-serving ulterior motives or puppet string pulling from either side (the war that can't be mentioned, shouldn't). A mutually agreed and beneficial proposal can then have a staggered introduction to each groups EA when it comes for renegotiation (EAA and SH this year; SSA next and LH the year after). VIPA and the AFAP managed something in their last EBA (albeit with some objections, but you can't please everyone.)

The EBA submissions the LH had put forward to FWA recently regarding a pseudo-group seniority was a great step forward, however I think it was slightly interpreted by the other groups as one-sided. As I read it, (happy to be corrected - this is after all, an adult conversation) pilots could go from other QF subsidiaries to mainline provided that they have LWOP provisions in their respective EBAs. Well, no one else does! (I know JQ have something regarding to moving to other facets of the JQ business abroad and not losing their seniority back home). It's a big thorn on the side of the regional pilots, to which management flat out refuses to negotiate on. Career progression is a biggie, as seen in the EAA survey results just recently. The younger pilots of tomorrow would love to be able to eventually move on to mainline or JQ and stay within the group. There's nothing wrong with a senior JQ or QF skipper wanting to go into semi-retirement on a Q400 (it's a fun speed boat ).

But then I wake up to reality...QLink management (previously anyway) won't merge the EAA and SSA seniorities when the pilot groups agreed on a proposal! I know this post is a tad optimistic or read, nave. But I hope this is just something to start a constructive debate on.

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Old 29th Apr 2013, 01:55
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There is a rumour going round the traps that a few senior qlink folk will be jumpseating sectors at jq in the coming weeks to 'observe' airbus procedures....
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Old 29th Apr 2013, 02:36
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Qantaslink all ready operate Jets. 13 in the
fleet last time I checked with 5 more on their way due
for delivery by the end of this year. QF have just
invested in new cabin refurbs and and extra 10 seats.
Don't see the Boeing 717 disappearing to soon.
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