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QF Metals MOU for Cat A

Old 15th Apr 2013, 10:37
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QF Metals MOU for Cat A

I hope I misheard this today - but I understand that the Qantas Metals Unions have taken the first step to hand complete industrial power to Qantas by attempting to allow Cat A LAMEs into their agreement.

All this signed up on a flight to Dubai and fuelled by Tattinger Champagne and a Neil Perry main course followed by a corporate mile high massage.

It is apparently known as the AME Scab agreement 2013.

Anyone know more?
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Old 15th Apr 2013, 10:45
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You seem surprised ?
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Old 15th Apr 2013, 10:52
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The soft unions can go and agree to anything they like but ultimately the Engineers will have to vote yes. That will not be a given considering it is an agreement to turn them into a roving band of strikebreakers.
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Old 15th Apr 2013, 11:04
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You seem to have a lot of confidence. There's a hard core bunch of "reps" that are more concerned in getting in as much overtime instead of doing some hard yakka and study to advance their careers. That plus the fact that its not only engineers that vote on the metals EBA its also the other classifications that will vote for whatever if they get a tickle in their pockets from QF.
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Old 15th Apr 2013, 11:29
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The selfish soft union Reps are not well appreciated by their workmates. Neither will be their advice. If the AMEs sign away their own future with a yes vote and become strike breakers it will be their own doing.
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Old 16th Apr 2013, 00:52
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Cat A will be implemented, no stopping that!

Sorry......
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Old 16th Apr 2013, 01:21
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Why are the metals involved, Rumour has it the cargo loaders will have the
CAT A, due to the AMEs being over qualified and way to expensive. A CAT A only requires Cert 11 training AMEs are Cert 4.

Last edited by MR WOBBLES; 16th Apr 2013 at 01:33.
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Old 16th Apr 2013, 01:33
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Has it been officially determined which union will represent the CAT A guys?
Technically they're LAME's so I would think they should fall under the ALAEA's wing.

Who represents them at Virgin?
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Old 16th Apr 2013, 01:51
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This seems a bit like a baited thread to me.
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Old 16th Apr 2013, 03:32
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'A' Licence coverage

going down-under

Cat A will be implemented, no stopping that!

Sorry......

I don't think anyone is disputing the fact that 'A' Licences will be implemented.

What is in dispute is which union has legitimate coverage of the classification.

Our careers as licenced and unlicenced aircraft maintenance engineers are at a crossroads.

Qantas' desire to have the 'A' Licence covered by any union other than the ALAEA is motivated ultimately by the desire to cut costs. Great news if you are a shareholder or on a management contract because it means you should enjoy a boost in earnings as a result.

Bad news if you are an AME or LAME employed by Qantas because your career and earning potential will be cruelled.

For AME's thinking about voting yes for any agreement that results in the ALAEA not having coverage of the 'A' Licence, I respectfully request you think long and hard about the medium to long term ramifications.

Forget about the bluster around being labelled as roving strikebreakers - that will only happen once every three to four years when the ALAEA EB is in negotiation. People calling you names shouldn't bother you.

What you should be concerned about is the impact on your career and earnings potential if all Licenced staff are not covered by the one agreement.

With regard to AME delegates, they should be acting in your best interests, not in the interests of the union officials. Truly good and effective union delegates are a rare thing and they should be supported by the members. Bad union delegates are...well, bad and should be removed by the members.

Whenever a new classification is created, their will always be a fight amongst the unions about who should cover it (and receive the union fees and increased industrial presence that follows).

As I have said before, it is easy for any reasonable person to see that the Australian Licenced Aircraft Engineers Association is the union that should cover the 'A' Licence classification.
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Old 16th Apr 2013, 04:36
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Who represents them at Virgin?
I believe the AMEs and LAMEs at Virgin are reprsented by ALAEA. I spoke to a mate at Virgin recently, although they have Cat A in their current EBA, apparently they havent gone down the Cat A road at this stage.
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Old 18th Apr 2013, 02:48
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To any AME reading this, you should think long and hard about who you take advice from and who is representing you. Look at them and consider if that is where you want your career headed.

Do you aspire to be a LAME (of any sort) one day, earning decent coin? Or do you want to be spineless, disrespected, short sighted and rely on ridiculous amounts of OT to get a decent wage?

Is your rep helping your career advancement or lining his own pockets with OT $$$ while everyone else is trying to save their jobs.

Even a parked truck can't knock sense into some people...
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Old 18th Apr 2013, 04:56
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Dear oh dear, JA1. After reading your last contribution, I seriously doubt any AME aspires to be an insulting, condescending, sort of LAME.
Are you a plant from one of the AME unions?
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Old 18th Apr 2013, 10:04
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Having worked in outside industry and then working in aviation - I was very surprised and confused upon embarking in my career as an AME.

The 'us and them' attitude, and treatment, that does exist between AME's and LAME'S where I am employed will only work in the company's favour in introducing the Cat A licence.

I don't understand how it came to be that AME's and LAME'S were represented by different Unions. Shouldn't it have been united we stand?

But I guess that's is all irrelevent now.

Even though I will reject the proposal, it will be voted in, without a doubt.
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Old 20th Apr 2013, 01:08
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I would have thought the current court action covering membership and coverage would have precluded an agreement around cat A LAMES let alone a vote?
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Old 21st Apr 2013, 04:36
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I'm confused? Does this mean that all the B1.1/B2 LAMES at QF who will also be utilising their A Licences, will be covered by 2 different EBA's?
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Old 22nd Apr 2013, 02:47
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Silverado makes a valid point. In fact qf already has an army of engineers with A cat licences ready to go. You might be a B cat on 744 but you can be task trained on all other types and use your A cat.

Every reference to A cat certifiers in all the CASA regs calls them "licenced engineers"
There is no debate as to who should represent these LAME's.
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Old 22nd Apr 2013, 05:14
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I don't understand how it came to be that AME's and LAME'S were represented by different Unions. Shouldn't it have been united we stand?
Except that the AMEs will outnumber the LAMEs so therefore it will become a AME union by default and dilute any LAME power. Given that LAMEs have much more responsibility they are probably entitled to setup their own union to look after their needs.
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Old 3rd May 2013, 13:01
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This will work surprisingly well, and if it's possible to to eliminate the LAME completely from the workplace, then that will help too!!!
After all, why cause a delay in aircraft departure when you can just ignore the fluid leaks, cracks, and missing parts. You don't have to have engineers for pre flight checks and if it looks OK, it probably is.
The only drawback is WHEN a "smoking hole" appears, someone is going to have to fill in a report.

Gee, it just doesn't get simpler than that, and you can take the money and run.

What's more, those who might get caught up in the wash out can sleep soundly knowing that this company will back you to the hilt.
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Old 3rd May 2013, 13:22
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For those who have some interest but are wondering what the thread is about, here is the content of a notice we oput out today -

ALAEA - Notice 12/2013 - Qantas Members - Qantas AME Wage Agreement
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