QF Ek Green Light
Driving a change agenda across all business units and embed a culture of Continuous Improvement
Last edited by hotnhigh; 28th Feb 2013 at 00:13.
Remember Emirates started with a clean sheet of paper in 1985 without years of "government airline" baggage and union strangle hold forcing it to continue archaic working practices. They were given an initial $10 million and required to operate without government subsidies. They operate in a business friendly environment with a government which realises the importance of aviation and supports it's development. As a result they are profitable and expanding, obviously pursuing a long term strategy.
They don't carry over paid, underworked, bonus driven deadwood in management either.
Perhaps a look at how they do things at all levels could benefit QANTAS.
They don't carry over paid, underworked, bonus driven deadwood in management either.
Perhaps a look at how they do things at all levels could benefit QANTAS.
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Re the Ex-Im Bank article, many countries have export credit agencies, not just the US. There is nothing new or underhanded in it.
Many Airbus aircraft have been financed with guarantees from
Euler Hermes
Coface
ECGD.
The US Ex-Im Bank may become involved if it has GE or PW engines.
Australia has EFIC.
Many Airbus aircraft have been financed with guarantees from
Euler Hermes
Coface
ECGD.
The US Ex-Im Bank may become involved if it has GE or PW engines.
Australia has EFIC.
Last edited by Taildragger67; 28th Feb 2013 at 01:41.
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ASY68, answer: they wont.
(Expensive) QF ground handling will be wound up and replaced by the alliance service.
Another way that QF is being slowly killed off.
If you google the ground handling company in question you will see they have spread their wings far and wide.
(Expensive) QF ground handling will be wound up and replaced by the alliance service.
Another way that QF is being slowly killed off.
If you google the ground handling company in question you will see they have spread their wings far and wide.
You know what though?
Gone are the days when you have three generations of bag chuckers working for Qantas earning pretty decent wages. While the base hourly rate isn't exactly a doctors wage, with all the add ons it becomes almost comparable to a white collar workers salary.
It's an unskilled job, anyone can do it. If you want to improve your terms and conditions, get marketable skills that will secure your income with education and training.
I empathise with the folks that signed up to work for Qantas in good faith, and the conditions that accompany it. I understand it's the national carrier and workers have a sense of pride in working for Qantas along with the additional benefits it entails (staff travel).
I believe though that excessive costs are what is causing the roo to slowly retreat. I'm all for paying top dollar to the folks that have the skill, qualifications and training to deserve it. I don't have a socialist mentality that everyone should have a slice of the same pie.
The unskilled labour union representatives are strangling the company.
The unions such as AIPA and the ALAEA just want appropriate conditions for their members which recognize their specialist skills and technical knowledge which benefits the company.
Gone are the days when you have three generations of bag chuckers working for Qantas earning pretty decent wages. While the base hourly rate isn't exactly a doctors wage, with all the add ons it becomes almost comparable to a white collar workers salary.
It's an unskilled job, anyone can do it. If you want to improve your terms and conditions, get marketable skills that will secure your income with education and training.
I empathise with the folks that signed up to work for Qantas in good faith, and the conditions that accompany it. I understand it's the national carrier and workers have a sense of pride in working for Qantas along with the additional benefits it entails (staff travel).
I believe though that excessive costs are what is causing the roo to slowly retreat. I'm all for paying top dollar to the folks that have the skill, qualifications and training to deserve it. I don't have a socialist mentality that everyone should have a slice of the same pie.
The unskilled labour union representatives are strangling the company.
The unions such as AIPA and the ALAEA just want appropriate conditions for their members which recognize their specialist skills and technical knowledge which benefits the company.
Yeah but Qantas have already gone out of their way to make their ground handling staff redundant by replacing new for old/retired/redundant with QGS on flat rate $18-19/hour staff.
If paying your ramp staff that little in this country is still strangling the company, maybe its got less to do with front line productive staff and more to do with office dwelling non productive support staff who build empires and create 'work' for themselves.
If paying your ramp staff that little in this country is still strangling the company, maybe its got less to do with front line productive staff and more to do with office dwelling non productive support staff who build empires and create 'work' for themselves.
http://www.fwc.gov.au/documents/agre...N096197607.pdf
There is the QGS agreement.
Most of them are classification GC1 - $726/week or GC2 $749/week
VS
http://www.fwc.gov.au/documents/agre...a/AE880650.pdf
Toll Dnata's agreement
$51238 /year for the same ramp staff
There is the QGS agreement.
Most of them are classification GC1 - $726/week or GC2 $749/week
VS
http://www.fwc.gov.au/documents/agre...a/AE880650.pdf
Toll Dnata's agreement
$51238 /year for the same ramp staff
Last edited by 600ft-lb; 28th Feb 2013 at 03:32.
The unions such as AIPA and the ALAEA just want appropriate conditions for their members which recognize their specialist skills and technical knowledge which benefits the company.
How much do Emirates pay baggage handlers and non performing managers ?
They operate in a business friendly environment with a government which realises the importance of aviation and supports it's development. As a result they are profitable and expanding, obviously pursuing a long term strategy.
Imagine if Alan Joyce was the CEO of Qantas and the head of CASA and had a seat on the board of Sydney Airport, that's the kind of control these guys have.
Last edited by neville_nobody; 28th Feb 2013 at 04:12.
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Imagine if Alan Joyce was the CEO of Qantas and the head of CASA and had a seat on the board of Sydney Airport, that's the kind of control these guys have.
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Imagine if Alan Joyce was the CEO of Qantas and the head of CASA and had a seat on the board of Sydney Airport, that's the kind of control these guys have.
I would go as far as to say if Qantas was a brothel and it was full of super models this management would still lose money and screw it up.
It's an unskilled job, anyone can do it.
I worked as a baggage handler for a few years and saw fully grown men reduced to tears stacking bags in the hold of an aircraft because they couldnt keep up and countless people try it for a few shifts then chuck it in because they weren't physically up to it.
Yes it is unskilled but no, not everybody can do it.
Agree with Love Doctor. I volunteered for it as a bit of a Lark (staff labour) during a baggage handling stirke in the late 1970's.
You have to keep things moving and there are enough one off anomalies thrown at you to keep you mentally alert - from effing bicycles to coffins, not to mention "lost" baggage and stuff requiring international connections. Physicaly, the worst was the DC9/MD tunnels.
And you had better be wearing leather gloves at all times or you will be bleeding by end of shift.
To a casual eye, it looks like people are just loafing around - just like the road gang guys resting on their shovels watching one man dig or swing the pick. Try it for Eight hours and see for yourself.
You have to keep things moving and there are enough one off anomalies thrown at you to keep you mentally alert - from effing bicycles to coffins, not to mention "lost" baggage and stuff requiring international connections. Physicaly, the worst was the DC9/MD tunnels.
And you had better be wearing leather gloves at all times or you will be bleeding by end of shift.
To a casual eye, it looks like people are just loafing around - just like the road gang guys resting on their shovels watching one man dig or swing the pick. Try it for Eight hours and see for yourself.
Last edited by Sunfish; 28th Feb 2013 at 18:34.
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QF/EK Tie Up
Anyone spotted this last Friday . . . seems like the ALAEA is having a red hot go at the "Alliance" and the ACCC.
Here's the link to the ALAEA's latest submission lodged on 14 March :
Qantas Airways Limited & Emirates - Authorisations - A91332 & A91333
Engineers urge ACCC to delay Qantas tie-up
* by: Steve Creedy, Aviation writer
* March 15, 2013 12:00AM
QANTAS engineers have indicated they might lodge an appeal if the competition regulator gives the flying kangaroo's alliance with Emirates the final go-ahead this month.
The airlines have already received a draft green light and interim authorisation to move ahead with the alliance, which is due to launch at the end of the month.
But the Australian Licensed Aircraft Engineers Association has raised concerns about the transparency of the deal and questioned the Australian Competition & Consumer Commission's assessment of key issues.
"We don't think that the applicants have provided the information, or at least it's not been made available to the other stakeholders if they have," ALAEA general manager Peter Somerville said.
"And this is part of the issue, a lack of transparency. We've repeatedly asked for access to the master Co-ordination Agreement, or those parts that are not commercial in confidence, and we've been repeatedly told we can't have access to any of it."
The union wants the ACCC to agree to a three-month extension on the decision and said it would look at an appeal to the Australian Competition Tribunal if the alliance was approved.
Mr Somerville said the union had sought advice on a possible appeal but now believed there was potential to consider the substantive issues raised by the application and test Qantas and Emirates on the claimed benefits.
The association has lodged a 39-page submission in an attempt to convince the ACCC to look more closely at the public benefits and detriments of the deal.
Mr Somerville said the competition watchdog's analysis had been "once over lightly" and questioned whether the likely benefits found, in terms of extra destinations, the loyalty program and wider connectivity, were real.
The union also believed the detriments stemming from the deal were greater than the ACCC had assessed.
"We've tried to critique the ACCC's findings based on the applicant's information and, after looking at all of those things, we think the public benefit doesn't outweigh the public detriment in this," he said.
One area that has the engineers particularly worried is whether the deal will allow Qantas and Emirates to join forces on maintenance, resulting in skilled jobs heading overseas.
While they concede that heavy maintenance on the A380s will remain offshore, Mr Somerville said there was other work that could go to Dubai.
Here's the link to the ALAEA's latest submission lodged on 14 March :
Qantas Airways Limited & Emirates - Authorisations - A91332 & A91333
Engineers urge ACCC to delay Qantas tie-up
* by: Steve Creedy, Aviation writer
* March 15, 2013 12:00AM
QANTAS engineers have indicated they might lodge an appeal if the competition regulator gives the flying kangaroo's alliance with Emirates the final go-ahead this month.
The airlines have already received a draft green light and interim authorisation to move ahead with the alliance, which is due to launch at the end of the month.
But the Australian Licensed Aircraft Engineers Association has raised concerns about the transparency of the deal and questioned the Australian Competition & Consumer Commission's assessment of key issues.
"We don't think that the applicants have provided the information, or at least it's not been made available to the other stakeholders if they have," ALAEA general manager Peter Somerville said.
"And this is part of the issue, a lack of transparency. We've repeatedly asked for access to the master Co-ordination Agreement, or those parts that are not commercial in confidence, and we've been repeatedly told we can't have access to any of it."
The union wants the ACCC to agree to a three-month extension on the decision and said it would look at an appeal to the Australian Competition Tribunal if the alliance was approved.
Mr Somerville said the union had sought advice on a possible appeal but now believed there was potential to consider the substantive issues raised by the application and test Qantas and Emirates on the claimed benefits.
The association has lodged a 39-page submission in an attempt to convince the ACCC to look more closely at the public benefits and detriments of the deal.
Mr Somerville said the competition watchdog's analysis had been "once over lightly" and questioned whether the likely benefits found, in terms of extra destinations, the loyalty program and wider connectivity, were real.
The union also believed the detriments stemming from the deal were greater than the ACCC had assessed.
"We've tried to critique the ACCC's findings based on the applicant's information and, after looking at all of those things, we think the public benefit doesn't outweigh the public detriment in this," he said.
One area that has the engineers particularly worried is whether the deal will allow Qantas and Emirates to join forces on maintenance, resulting in skilled jobs heading overseas.
While they concede that heavy maintenance on the A380s will remain offshore, Mr Somerville said there was other work that could go to Dubai.
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So, 10 days to go until the first revenue flights(less until QF aircraft start to position). Tickets through Dubai are still being sold "subject to regulatory approval". Seriously doubt the ACCC would will not rule in favour, eventually, but can the the airlines proceed with the first flights,on the interim ruling?
HM,
It's the crews that have to be in place rather than aircraft. Because ACCC approval may not appear until late, then I suspect that Qantas, being the good planners that they are, will be ready to roll with either the new regime or a continuation of what we now know and love.
It's the crews that have to be in place rather than aircraft. Because ACCC approval may not appear until late, then I suspect that Qantas, being the good planners that they are, will be ready to roll with either the new regime or a continuation of what we now know and love.
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One area that has the engineers particularly worried is whether the deal will allow Qantas and Emirates to join forces on maintenance, resulting in skilled jobs heading overseas.
For me, I see the EK/QF deal, if allowed to go ahead as a tool to circumnavigate the Qantas sales act and reduce Q staff levels across Australia favouring third party labour companies.
I suspect that Qantas, being the good planners that they are, will be ready to roll with either the new regime or a continuation of what we now know and love. 
Last edited by TIMA9X; 21st Mar 2013 at 08:47.