5th September QF Announcement
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Right on cue:
Qantas Paints Grim Picture
Yet, in Mr Joyce said this in Feb 2012: Senate Transcript
Qantas paints grave picture of global arm Date: September 10 2012
Qantas Airways says its international operations are in ‘‘terminal decline’’ and unable to go it alone, given the disadvantages of geography, high cost base and fierce competition.
The airline told the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) its proposed 10-year partnership with Dubai-headquartered Emirates was an urgent strategic imperative.
Qantas and Emirates today lodged their application with the ACCC to approve the alliance.In their submission, they said the tie-up would improve the international competitiveness of a key Australian business and iconic brand, Qantas.
‘‘A strong and efficient Qantas is in the long-term national interest,’’ the submission said. ‘‘The proposed conduct is essential to underwrite the sustainability of Qantas international and to continue to provide substantial benefits to Australia and Australians.’’
Last Thursday, Qantas chief executive Alan Joyce and Emirates president Tim Clark unveiled plans for an extensive codesharing arrangement, reciprocal frequent-flyer benefits and joint marketing, pricing and coordination on certain routes.
The alliance was regarded as a key plank to turn around Qantas’s struggling international operations, which Mr Joyce said lost $216 million in 2010-11 and $450 million in 2011-12.
‘‘The growing magnitude of losses cannot continue,’’ the submission said. ‘‘The proposed conduct will arrest the terminal decline of the international operation of Qantas.
‘‘It is clear that it is no longer possible for Qantas international to sustainably ‘go it alone’ as an international network carrier.’’
The submission said Qantas did not have the ability to compete effectively with ‘‘mid-point carriers’’ based in Asia or the Middle East, given their geographic and economic advantages.
Meanwhile, Emirates operates a number of flights between Australia and New Zealand and that the two airlines offered to formally commit to maintain capacity across the Tasman.
‘‘The commitment only relates to total trans-Tasman capacity, rather than specific city pair routes,’’ the submission said.
Qantas closed up two cents at $1.28.
Qantas Airways says its international operations are in ‘‘terminal decline’’ and unable to go it alone, given the disadvantages of geography, high cost base and fierce competition.
The airline told the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) its proposed 10-year partnership with Dubai-headquartered Emirates was an urgent strategic imperative.
Qantas and Emirates today lodged their application with the ACCC to approve the alliance.In their submission, they said the tie-up would improve the international competitiveness of a key Australian business and iconic brand, Qantas.
‘‘A strong and efficient Qantas is in the long-term national interest,’’ the submission said. ‘‘The proposed conduct is essential to underwrite the sustainability of Qantas international and to continue to provide substantial benefits to Australia and Australians.’’
Last Thursday, Qantas chief executive Alan Joyce and Emirates president Tim Clark unveiled plans for an extensive codesharing arrangement, reciprocal frequent-flyer benefits and joint marketing, pricing and coordination on certain routes.
The alliance was regarded as a key plank to turn around Qantas’s struggling international operations, which Mr Joyce said lost $216 million in 2010-11 and $450 million in 2011-12.
‘‘The growing magnitude of losses cannot continue,’’ the submission said. ‘‘The proposed conduct will arrest the terminal decline of the international operation of Qantas.
‘‘It is clear that it is no longer possible for Qantas international to sustainably ‘go it alone’ as an international network carrier.’’
The submission said Qantas did not have the ability to compete effectively with ‘‘mid-point carriers’’ based in Asia or the Middle East, given their geographic and economic advantages.
Meanwhile, Emirates operates a number of flights between Australia and New Zealand and that the two airlines offered to formally commit to maintain capacity across the Tasman.
‘‘The commitment only relates to total trans-Tasman capacity, rather than specific city pair routes,’’ the submission said.
Qantas closed up two cents at $1.28.
Yet, in Mr Joyce said this in Feb 2012: Senate Transcript
Originally Posted by Alan Joyce
Senator XENOPHON: In terms of the Qantas Sale Act and the whole issue of subsidiaries—and Mr Johnson referred to this on the last occasion—there is nothing in the Qantas Sale Act that would prevent international routes being flown by Jetstar, for instance, and Qantas becoming a largely domestic carrier. There is nothing in the act that would prohibit that.
Mr Joyce : There is no prohibition in the act against all of our international routes being replaced by Emirates or United one day. The market will dictate who flies internationally and who will survive. I will tell you our intentions. I hope that someday Jetstar can be very big, because that would be great for Australia and the group, because these aircraft would be flying all over Asia. We want Qantas to be in the same position. I want to turn around the international business so that Qantas can have the same growth opportunities that Jetstar has. I absolutely believe that you cannot lock into legislation restrictions on Qantas to somehow ensure that Qantas stays in the race, because it will not happen. If you put those restrictions in place, Senator, all you will be ensuring is the absolute demise of Qantas. It has to be commercial, it has to be flexible and it has to adapt. That is the only way you can ensure what you are saying never happens and it is not our intention. We absolutely want to scrape around to be flying to every continent around the world, but we have to have a commercial entity.
Mr Joyce : There is no prohibition in the act against all of our international routes being replaced by Emirates or United one day. The market will dictate who flies internationally and who will survive. I will tell you our intentions. I hope that someday Jetstar can be very big, because that would be great for Australia and the group, because these aircraft would be flying all over Asia. We want Qantas to be in the same position. I want to turn around the international business so that Qantas can have the same growth opportunities that Jetstar has. I absolutely believe that you cannot lock into legislation restrictions on Qantas to somehow ensure that Qantas stays in the race, because it will not happen. If you put those restrictions in place, Senator, all you will be ensuring is the absolute demise of Qantas. It has to be commercial, it has to be flexible and it has to adapt. That is the only way you can ensure what you are saying never happens and it is not our intention. We absolutely want to scrape around to be flying to every continent around the world, but we have to have a commercial entity.
Last edited by TheWholeEnchilada; 10th Sep 2012 at 10:19.
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In response to Capt Gidday's post on the 7th...
today
AJ, cap in hand crying poor again..... it never ends...
Capt Gidday your comment, spot on the money..
great digging!
ps, sorry for the double up post of the same story... I believe there is a lot in this piece, off the top of my head I can think of many things said at the two senate inquires that may conflict with where things stand today....
off to review the video tape.... chuckle...
Qantas deal a short-term winner but long-term outlook problematic
September 06, 2012 1:05PM
QANTAS will face a tough battle to win Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) approval of its Emirates joint venture, which will control over 50 per cent of traffic between Australia and Europe and effectively take one competitor out of the market.
ACCC chief Rod Sims told The Australian that it was early days yet in the regulator’s consideration but “obviously we will look very closely at any deal which sees Emirates fares move closer to the higher Qantas fares”.
Tim,
That actually is a very interesting statement from the ACCC chief. Note he does not appear interested in the competition aspects of the deal. Only that the little Aussie battlers, out there in the Labor heartland, can still get cheap fares to Europe. A much easier thing to reassure the regulator about, I would think. As in "of course this new alliance will actually lower Qantas' cost base and allow us to be more competitive, hence lowering our fares". [Well, maybe, fingers crossed].
AJ's blustering all this year can now be seen in a new light. Talking up the supposed losses in longhaul, which have magically risen from $100M, to $240M to $420M to whatever number you want to pluck, has been solely to soften up the ACCC to make the case that this deal must go ahead.
Similarly, the 'falling overseas market share' argument is also all about priming the ACCC case, to make it easier to argue that Qantas must have this alliance, or very bad things will happen to politician's perks. The 'longhaul is a basket case' spruiking is all about that, nothing more.
Given the PR spin that will now gush forth, sounding just like the above [watch the weekend papers] , it will be a done deal. Olivia's no doubt already onto it. Get that rubber stamp ready.
September 06, 2012 1:05PM
QANTAS will face a tough battle to win Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) approval of its Emirates joint venture, which will control over 50 per cent of traffic between Australia and Europe and effectively take one competitor out of the market.
ACCC chief Rod Sims told The Australian that it was early days yet in the regulator’s consideration but “obviously we will look very closely at any deal which sees Emirates fares move closer to the higher Qantas fares”.
Tim,
That actually is a very interesting statement from the ACCC chief. Note he does not appear interested in the competition aspects of the deal. Only that the little Aussie battlers, out there in the Labor heartland, can still get cheap fares to Europe. A much easier thing to reassure the regulator about, I would think. As in "of course this new alliance will actually lower Qantas' cost base and allow us to be more competitive, hence lowering our fares". [Well, maybe, fingers crossed].
AJ's blustering all this year can now be seen in a new light. Talking up the supposed losses in longhaul, which have magically risen from $100M, to $240M to $420M to whatever number you want to pluck, has been solely to soften up the ACCC to make the case that this deal must go ahead.
Similarly, the 'falling overseas market share' argument is also all about priming the ACCC case, to make it easier to argue that Qantas must have this alliance, or very bad things will happen to politician's perks. The 'longhaul is a basket case' spruiking is all about that, nothing more.
Given the PR spin that will now gush forth, sounding just like the above [watch the weekend papers] , it will be a done deal. Olivia's no doubt already onto it. Get that rubber stamp ready.
Qantas Airways says its international operations are in ‘‘terminal decline’’ and unable to go it alone, given the disadvantages of geography, high cost base and fierce competition.
The airline told the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) its proposed 10-year partnership with Dubai-headquartered Emirates was an urgent strategic imperative.
Qantas and Emirates today lodged their application with the ACCC to approve the alliance.In their submission, they said the tie-up would improve the international competitiveness of a key Australian business and iconic brand, Qantas.
‘‘A strong and efficient Qantas is in the long-term national interest,’’ the submission said. ‘‘The proposed conduct is essential to underwrite the sustainability of Qantas international and to continue to provide substantial benefits to Australia and Australians.’’
Last Thursday, Qantas chief executive Alan Joyce and Emirates president Tim Clark unveiled plans for an extensive codesharing arrangement, reciprocal frequent-flyer benefits and joint marketing, pricing and coordination on certain routes.
The alliance was regarded as a key plank to turn around Qantas’s struggling international operations, which Mr Joyce said lost $216 million in 2010-11 and $450 million in 2011-12.
‘‘The growing magnitude of losses cannot continue,’’ the submission said. ‘‘The proposed conduct will arrest the terminal decline of the international operation of Qantas.
‘‘It is clear that it is no longer possible for Qantas international to sustainably ‘go it alone’ as an international network carrier.’’
The submission said Qantas did not have the ability to compete effectively with ‘‘mid-point carriers’’ based in Asia or the Middle East, given their geographic and economic advantages.
Meanwhile, Emirates operates a number of flights between Australia and New Zealand and that the two airlines offered to formally commit to maintain capacity across the Tasman.
‘‘The commitment only relates to total trans-Tasman capacity, rather than specific city pair routes,’’ the submission said.
Qantas closed up two cents at $1.28.
Read more: Qantas paints grave picture of global arm
The airline told the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) its proposed 10-year partnership with Dubai-headquartered Emirates was an urgent strategic imperative.
Qantas and Emirates today lodged their application with the ACCC to approve the alliance.In their submission, they said the tie-up would improve the international competitiveness of a key Australian business and iconic brand, Qantas.
‘‘A strong and efficient Qantas is in the long-term national interest,’’ the submission said. ‘‘The proposed conduct is essential to underwrite the sustainability of Qantas international and to continue to provide substantial benefits to Australia and Australians.’’
Last Thursday, Qantas chief executive Alan Joyce and Emirates president Tim Clark unveiled plans for an extensive codesharing arrangement, reciprocal frequent-flyer benefits and joint marketing, pricing and coordination on certain routes.
The alliance was regarded as a key plank to turn around Qantas’s struggling international operations, which Mr Joyce said lost $216 million in 2010-11 and $450 million in 2011-12.
‘‘The growing magnitude of losses cannot continue,’’ the submission said. ‘‘The proposed conduct will arrest the terminal decline of the international operation of Qantas.
‘‘It is clear that it is no longer possible for Qantas international to sustainably ‘go it alone’ as an international network carrier.’’
The submission said Qantas did not have the ability to compete effectively with ‘‘mid-point carriers’’ based in Asia or the Middle East, given their geographic and economic advantages.
Meanwhile, Emirates operates a number of flights between Australia and New Zealand and that the two airlines offered to formally commit to maintain capacity across the Tasman.
‘‘The commitment only relates to total trans-Tasman capacity, rather than specific city pair routes,’’ the submission said.
Qantas closed up two cents at $1.28.
Read more: Qantas paints grave picture of global arm
AJ, cap in hand crying poor again..... it never ends...
Capt Gidday your comment, spot on the money..
by TWE
Mr Joyce : There is no prohibition in the act against all of our international routes being replaced by Emirates or United one day. The market will dictate who flies internationally and who will survive. I will tell you our intentions. I hope that someday Jetstar can be very big, because that would be great for Australia and the group, because these aircraft would be flying all over Asia. We want Qantas to be in the same position. I want to turn around the international business so that Qantas can have the same growth opportunities that Jetstar has. I absolutely believe that you cannot lock into legislation restrictions on Qantas to somehow ensure that Qantas stays in the race, because it will not happen. If you put those restrictions in place, Senator, all you will be ensuring is the absolute demise of Qantas. It has to be commercial, it has to be flexible and it has to adapt. That is the only way you can ensure what you are saying never happens and it is not our intention. We absolutely want to scrape around to be flying to every continent around the world, but we have to have a commercial entity.
Mr Joyce : There is no prohibition in the act against all of our international routes being replaced by Emirates or United one day. The market will dictate who flies internationally and who will survive. I will tell you our intentions. I hope that someday Jetstar can be very big, because that would be great for Australia and the group, because these aircraft would be flying all over Asia. We want Qantas to be in the same position. I want to turn around the international business so that Qantas can have the same growth opportunities that Jetstar has. I absolutely believe that you cannot lock into legislation restrictions on Qantas to somehow ensure that Qantas stays in the race, because it will not happen. If you put those restrictions in place, Senator, all you will be ensuring is the absolute demise of Qantas. It has to be commercial, it has to be flexible and it has to adapt. That is the only way you can ensure what you are saying never happens and it is not our intention. We absolutely want to scrape around to be flying to every continent around the world, but we have to have a commercial entity.
ps, sorry for the double up post of the same story... I believe there is a lot in this piece, off the top of my head I can think of many things said at the two senate inquires that may conflict with where things stand today....
off to review the video tape.... chuckle...
Last edited by TIMA9X; 10th Sep 2012 at 10:48.
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Ahhh Jeez Squawk, if you go then I'm not going to eat my hat in 12 months. I'll just conveniently forget this conversation ever took place.
Captain Kremin speak truth, Teresa Green nose grow long.
I would be very concerned right about now if I were Jetconnect. Emirates to run the Trans Tasman from AKL and CHC, commitment to only maintain the number of seats on the Tasman, not between city pairs 
737's earmarked for a return to Qantas domestic, reports from Qantas about Jetconnects losses on the Tasman. Hope that I am wrong.
737's earmarked for a return to Qantas domestic, reports from Qantas about Jetconnects losses on the Tasman. Hope that I am wrong.
How does the tie up affect British Airways ? Previously a passenger could book LHR - BNE on BA/QF. Now with BA only going to SYD via SIN and QF only flying to SYD/MEL via DXB you may as well go straight to EK/SQ/CX and book directly with them all the way if you want to go another capital city.
Also if a passenger wants LHR - PER why bother booking through the QF website if the travel search engine he uses says Emirates are the cheapest. The two airlines aren't pooling revenue so QF would only earn on code share bookings made via their website and would get nothing if a passenger booked directly via the EK website.
Also if a passenger wants LHR - PER why bother booking through the QF website if the travel search engine he uses says Emirates are the cheapest. The two airlines aren't pooling revenue so QF would only earn on code share bookings made via their website and would get nothing if a passenger booked directly via the EK website.
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Squawk 7600 - so much for your Squawk 7600
Not say much, just listen. Also disguise voice so boss man not find out who is Squawk. Otherwise boss take big stick and Squawk get to feel what it like to be Alan Joyce after big mardi gras 
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Tagneah said;
I have over the past couple of months ran into plenty of ex-colleuges from QF in Singapore and all of them have been nothing but supportive and a pleasure to catch up with. They have even shouted beers with their enormous south bound allowances! None of these guys would look at a EK command that way.
IF this did occur to you, It's unfair to try to tarnish a whole groups reputation based on one individuals narrow mindedness. 99% are good guys/girls that go to work daily wondering if they will have a job tomorrow. As stated prior their will be always a few rotten apples in any group of employees
Just wish I could catch up with the QF Skipper I came across in Insomnia the other month that told me my 777 Command at EK is ok but "its not like its a Qantas Command".
IF this did occur to you, It's unfair to try to tarnish a whole groups reputation based on one individuals narrow mindedness. 99% are good guys/girls that go to work daily wondering if they will have a job tomorrow. As stated prior their will be always a few rotten apples in any group of employees
Tagneah, how do you know there is an EK cripple 7 pilot in the room? He will tell you.
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How do you know there's an EK 380 driver in the room.....
He's the short guy with the big watch....in a stick powered electric wheelchair...constantly leaving the boggs...but mysteriously doing a 180 and going back
He is also wearing blue spandex outfit with a red cape....
He's the short guy with the big watch....in a stick powered electric wheelchair...constantly leaving the boggs...but mysteriously doing a 180 and going back
He is also wearing blue spandex outfit with a red cape....
Bit like the girl who complained of rape by an EK 380 skipper to the police.
They asked how she knew who her attacker was...
Big watch
Little d!ck
And couldn't stop talking about himself
halas
They asked how she knew who her attacker was...
Big watch
Little d!ck
And couldn't stop talking about himself
halas
Good to see the 380 dude isn't the sober bloke in the nightclub who gets upset when the QF fellas don't get impressed with his command ability.
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It's unfair to try to tarnish a whole groups reputation based on one individuals narrow mindedness
I grabbed my first beer, and his SO came drinking with us.
The point that got me was he went to Insomnia sober
Don, How do you know there is a QF pilot at your party? He'll be wearing his uniform.
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Don, How do you know there is a QF pilot at your party? He'll be wearing his uniform.
My favourite story was of the United Airways Captain taxying out of Sydney on his last flight.
He apparently said " Sydney tower, this is my last flight and I want you to know that you guys are the second best controllers in the world!"
Silence was followed then the words of "Thanks very much. Out of interest who is the best?"
Reply "The rest of the World!"
Response from tower was only "United XXX clear for take off."
I guess though this guy had never held at Bubin!!!!
Qantas is expected to launch a daily non-stop service between Perth and Auckland as benefits of last week's alliance deal with Emirates start to emerge.
Jitconnect could have their pilots work for free and the operation would still lose money! Reason being is that the aircraft utilization is way too low. Of course the plan was to have Jitconnect pilots fly over the ditch and then do some domestic australian flying but this has been hit on the head by Canberra. Bottom line, you have to fly these new NG's to make any money and it doesn't matter what the crew get paid!!! Bringing the NZ NG's back to the motherland will be a big plus and the old classics will get retired sooner!!
Nunc est bibendum
Just wish I could catch up with the QF Skipper I came across in Insomnia the other month that told me my 777 Command at EK is ok but "its not like its a Qantas Command".
