Aviation Survey results
ABC radio news also mentioned it.
According to Olivia re Steve Purvinas, "It looks like he's up to his old tricks again."
Inspiring stuff Liv!
According to Olivia re Steve Purvinas, "It looks like he's up to his old tricks again."
Inspiring stuff Liv!
Last edited by DirectAnywhere; 25th Jul 2012 at 21:59.
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1. Complete lack of any type training. They talk of efficiencies yet they either train one person on everything (the blessed and very few) or most on hardly anything.
2. Any practical training ie trouble shooting or ongoing recurrence training on types we are licensed on
3. They say that we have higher engament levels then previous.....wtf! They have made no effort to engage us and feel more disengaged then ever!
4. Maintenance on demand is nothing more than a cost cutting measure, removing a level of safety that has been there for decades......bad move. A bird hitting a aircraft doesn't care if it's a new gen aircraft or not.
5. Get rid of incompetent managers don't move them sideway....
6. The interiors of the 767's and some of our latter aircraft are worn and dated...throwing iPads at them does little to fix the prob....visually appalling...new carpet, leather seats, nice big IFE screens, brighter lighting....spend some money and they will come back.
7. Finish painting the aircraft....they look appauling. Apart from looking worn and degradated the pax automatically think their boarding a old a/c.
8. Come up with some real inspiring tv ads...not the rubbish thats on at the moment.
9. Finish the next EBA on on time....here's a thought start negotiating now Q and maybe give a little.
10. Start flying some new destinations....Athens, Rome, Paris with some 777.
2. Any practical training ie trouble shooting or ongoing recurrence training on types we are licensed on
3. They say that we have higher engament levels then previous.....wtf! They have made no effort to engage us and feel more disengaged then ever!
4. Maintenance on demand is nothing more than a cost cutting measure, removing a level of safety that has been there for decades......bad move. A bird hitting a aircraft doesn't care if it's a new gen aircraft or not.
5. Get rid of incompetent managers don't move them sideway....
6. The interiors of the 767's and some of our latter aircraft are worn and dated...throwing iPads at them does little to fix the prob....visually appalling...new carpet, leather seats, nice big IFE screens, brighter lighting....spend some money and they will come back.
7. Finish painting the aircraft....they look appauling. Apart from looking worn and degradated the pax automatically think their boarding a old a/c.
8. Come up with some real inspiring tv ads...not the rubbish thats on at the moment.
9. Finish the next EBA on on time....here's a thought start negotiating now Q and maybe give a little.
10. Start flying some new destinations....Athens, Rome, Paris with some 777.
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Be careful of your audience, and their personal agenda Steve.
It's pretty clear AJ is doing what he is told. Not by Clifford, but GD.
There is two possible scenarios to explain the appalling decisions this management has made in recent times.
They are either:
1. Spectacularly incompetent, or
2. This run down of QF is orchestrated by GD to destroy the share price so he (& Carneggie, Singleton, Coe, Gregg and the rest of the parasites) can buy it for a bargain price, handsomely reward one another and the institutional investors, split it up, sell it off then retire to some tax haven somewhere.
1 is possible, but 2 is far more likely.
If this is the case you'll bet your audience of institutional investors are fully aware if the grand plan and see pay day not too far away.
So while you may receive a display of dismay and concern, behind the scenes the champagne corks will be popping as your survey is further evidence that the plan is on track.
I'd say you're more likely to get some traction with Canberra. They are more concerned with votes, and if my theory could be proven the game would be over.
It's pretty clear AJ is doing what he is told. Not by Clifford, but GD.
There is two possible scenarios to explain the appalling decisions this management has made in recent times.
They are either:
1. Spectacularly incompetent, or
2. This run down of QF is orchestrated by GD to destroy the share price so he (& Carneggie, Singleton, Coe, Gregg and the rest of the parasites) can buy it for a bargain price, handsomely reward one another and the institutional investors, split it up, sell it off then retire to some tax haven somewhere.
1 is possible, but 2 is far more likely.
If this is the case you'll bet your audience of institutional investors are fully aware if the grand plan and see pay day not too far away.
So while you may receive a display of dismay and concern, behind the scenes the champagne corks will be popping as your survey is further evidence that the plan is on track.
I'd say you're more likely to get some traction with Canberra. They are more concerned with votes, and if my theory could be proven the game would be over.
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Good work, Steve!
If we consider IsDon's theory (which I happen to agree with), then what are the possible outcome's from this survey?
1. The champagne corks are already popping, and this report does nothing to assist the cause of the long sufferring employees.
or
2. Management will make noises such as "Steve's been up to his old tricks again" and this report does nothing to assist the cause of the long sufferring employees.
or
3. The unthinkable happens and we have a smoking hole in the ground. Well, at least then the authorities may have some evidence to show that the airlines weren't being managed in an appropriate fashion.
Lets face it, Steve isn't going to change the Qantas Groups path of self destruction. Nor is any other employee. It is up to the board and the pressure exerted upon it from institutional investors. But the institutionals appear to be happy with the progress and despite the lack of dividend, they can see the plan unfolding. They are just as much a part of it as the board.
So this report, despite being likely somewhat ineffectual, at least states loudly that there is a problem. Hopefully the unthinkable won't happen, but there will be an "I told you so" if it does.
If we consider IsDon's theory (which I happen to agree with), then what are the possible outcome's from this survey?
1. The champagne corks are already popping, and this report does nothing to assist the cause of the long sufferring employees.
or
2. Management will make noises such as "Steve's been up to his old tricks again" and this report does nothing to assist the cause of the long sufferring employees.
or
3. The unthinkable happens and we have a smoking hole in the ground. Well, at least then the authorities may have some evidence to show that the airlines weren't being managed in an appropriate fashion.
Lets face it, Steve isn't going to change the Qantas Groups path of self destruction. Nor is any other employee. It is up to the board and the pressure exerted upon it from institutional investors. But the institutionals appear to be happy with the progress and despite the lack of dividend, they can see the plan unfolding. They are just as much a part of it as the board.
So this report, despite being likely somewhat ineffectual, at least states loudly that there is a problem. Hopefully the unthinkable won't happen, but there will be an "I told you so" if it does.
As damning as that is of the Qantas Management
Check out the report card on Air Services management from the ATC world in that survey. 100% distrust of management and safety.
Check out the report card on Air Services management from the ATC world in that survey. 100% distrust of management and safety.
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I hope some good journalists (is there such a thing...?!) really grab this one and hang on to it. It would be great if they could put some hard questions to management and hold them accountable for truthful responses(!). Unless they do so, and quickly, I fear the management responses will be to brush it off and find ways to discredit the survey. I hope they do not succeed in doing so.
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Remember all the aim of doing this was not to have a big press beat up. 400 hardcopies are on their way to every investor, journo, politician and others with an interest so they know what is really happening at the airline.
Last edited by ALAEA Fed Sec; 26th Jul 2012 at 03:54.
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Don't forget to congratulate the companies that do have an engaged workforce.
Well done Alliance and Virgin - set the standard and reap the success.
I think you have a few good pointers to go on Mr Fed Sec, but there is no such thing as a short list of problems with Qantas Management.
It all started with Core and Non-Core business and tendering for your own work. The started with closing the printers then the wheels and brakes shop and then they never looked back.
Well done Alliance and Virgin - set the standard and reap the success.
I think you have a few good pointers to go on Mr Fed Sec, but there is no such thing as a short list of problems with Qantas Management.
It all started with Core and Non-Core business and tendering for your own work. The started with closing the printers then the wheels and brakes shop and then they never looked back.
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What a remarkable co-incidence the "possible" EK tie up is released (leaked) then partially refuted (we talk to lots of airlines etc ) at about the same time as the closure as the MEL engine shop and the survey release. As a spin doctor you'd have to admit they are good but it only masks reality to cover up the 24 hour news cycle.
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Qantas board mistakes
The mistakes were:
1. Totally ignoring the fact the biggest asset of ANY company is THEIR EMPLOYEES.
One could be forgiven for thinking that during the tenures of Geoff Dixon and Alan Joyce that they had a grand plan for converting Qantas International from a premium full sevice airline into a low cost carrier. Both had stated aims of putting shareholders ahead of customers and employees.
The employees have endured a period that management has disregarded their value and contributions over the years, so it's any wonder that employee morale has plummeted to an all time low. When this happens, service is affected, no matter in which area they work. Output suffers, quality suffers and the end product is less than baseline.
It used to be a matter of pride to work for this highly regarded airline and this immediately connects to dedication ,commitment to reaching goals, loyalty, contributing to new ideas, quality and effective teamwork.
These have been replaced with all the opposites over this period and the company has been left with managers standing over others to prevent them from rising further.
Hardly a recipe for success.......
2. The grounding of the airline.
This alienated the traveling public against the company for good reason.
Why would anyone travel on Qantas services when you couldn't be sure of arrival at any port with certainty? Staff at the pointy end were dealing with the brunt of the customers fury and worked hard to resolve the problems of getting people home.
The decision to ground the airline had to be the worst decision of Qantas history. The loss of business, and some of it permanently, ensured a balance sheet loss for years to come.
To blame unions and other airlines for the current woes shows the disconnect this board has from good business practice and the unwillingness to take responsibility for their actions. In other companies, Board members would have resigned long ago......what are they waiting for?
The shareholders have rewarded with a share pice below $1.00 and no certainty of an alliance with any other airline. The board, no doubt, will reward themselves with a fat bonus along the way.
I wonder what their KPI's were.........?
1. Totally ignoring the fact the biggest asset of ANY company is THEIR EMPLOYEES.
One could be forgiven for thinking that during the tenures of Geoff Dixon and Alan Joyce that they had a grand plan for converting Qantas International from a premium full sevice airline into a low cost carrier. Both had stated aims of putting shareholders ahead of customers and employees.
The employees have endured a period that management has disregarded their value and contributions over the years, so it's any wonder that employee morale has plummeted to an all time low. When this happens, service is affected, no matter in which area they work. Output suffers, quality suffers and the end product is less than baseline.
It used to be a matter of pride to work for this highly regarded airline and this immediately connects to dedication ,commitment to reaching goals, loyalty, contributing to new ideas, quality and effective teamwork.
These have been replaced with all the opposites over this period and the company has been left with managers standing over others to prevent them from rising further.
Hardly a recipe for success.......
2. The grounding of the airline.
This alienated the traveling public against the company for good reason.
Why would anyone travel on Qantas services when you couldn't be sure of arrival at any port with certainty? Staff at the pointy end were dealing with the brunt of the customers fury and worked hard to resolve the problems of getting people home.
The decision to ground the airline had to be the worst decision of Qantas history. The loss of business, and some of it permanently, ensured a balance sheet loss for years to come.
To blame unions and other airlines for the current woes shows the disconnect this board has from good business practice and the unwillingness to take responsibility for their actions. In other companies, Board members would have resigned long ago......what are they waiting for?
The shareholders have rewarded with a share pice below $1.00 and no certainty of an alliance with any other airline. The board, no doubt, will reward themselves with a fat bonus along the way.
I wonder what their KPI's were.........?
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So what does the survey really say???
Qantas engineers should be on the same pay and conditions as Alliance???
Of coures not! The bloody survey is nothing more than a wank by the ALAEA.
Compound this with the article in today's Financial Review and it just further erodes confidence (unjustifiably) in the quality and standards of our industry.
Qantas engineers are as good as you will find anywhere in the world.. and a damn site better than at EK. But surveys like this only create a false perception in the minds of the travelling public.
To what benefit???... the ego of the ALAEA!
The whole survey and the fact the moderators have kept it up so long has me beat!!!
Qantas engineers should be on the same pay and conditions as Alliance???
Of coures not! The bloody survey is nothing more than a wank by the ALAEA.
Compound this with the article in today's Financial Review and it just further erodes confidence (unjustifiably) in the quality and standards of our industry.
Qantas engineers are as good as you will find anywhere in the world.. and a damn site better than at EK. But surveys like this only create a false perception in the minds of the travelling public.
To what benefit???... the ego of the ALAEA!
The whole survey and the fact the moderators have kept it up so long has me beat!!!
Last edited by hiwaytohell; 26th Jul 2012 at 11:18.
So what does the survey really say???
Qantas engineers should be on the same pay and conditions as Alliance???
Qantas engineers should be on the same pay and conditions as Alliance???
What you can take from it is, Alliance and Virgin have management which get it, they know how to run profitable businesses whilst keeping all stakeholders happy.
Qantas on the other hand, whilst profitable, seem to fall short on public and staff relations. The big airlines, especially Qantas seem to make their internal engagement surveys a big part of gauging their performance. That's useless when you're comparing how good you are to yourself. Olivia can spin however she wants, if the executive 'team' at Qantas want to stick their heads in the sand at this result and pretend its just rumor, innuendo and SP up to his old tricks again... all the best to them. Hopefully the shareholders hold them to account for their ignorance.
One thing we can take from all of this is that more money does not equal happiness... It's probably detrimental after a certain point.
Just be concerned about ATC and Jetstar tech crew attitudes in regards to how they feel about how their management view safety and reporting of incidents. Now that's scary.
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So what does the survey really say???
Qantas engineers should be on the same pay and conditions as Alliance???
Of coures not! The bloody survey is nothing more than a wank by the ALAEA.
Qantas engineers should be on the same pay and conditions as Alliance???
Of coures not! The bloody survey is nothing more than a wank by the ALAEA.
Alliance last EBA for Engineers. Average salary was about 15% less than Qantas. Workers however were happy and their management team co-operative. We finalised a new EBA from nothing (no previous agreement) in 3 meetings. The company offered rises of 2% pa, our blokes said no problem we're happy with that. This is what you get from an engaged workforce.
I think you already know what the LAME negotiations for the past 2 rounds with Qantas was like. They could have the Alliance model by just treating their employees with respect so no, the Qantas Engineers do not want to be paid like Alliance because it is less. When you treat employees like crap, it comes at a price.
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Alliance last EBA for Engineers. Average salary was about 15% less than Qantas. Workers however were happy and their management team co-operative. We finalised a new EBA from nothing (no previous agreement) in 3 meetings. The company offered rises of 2% pa, our blokes said no problem we're happy with that. This is what you get from an engaged workforce.
IMO a lot of these lousy managers only care about the bucks themselves (which is why they're lousy) and they can't comprehend that people go to work for other reasons like self worth, being a part of the team and similar. Companies like Alliance and Virgin get away with paying less because they provide their employees with fuzzy stuff like self worth and value. None of that can be quantified by bean counters and none of it can be faked. When a company is run purely by bean counters and fakes it's impossible for them to understand how it works; you may as well be speaking Swahili.
With Qantas, it appears that the powers that be are only there for the bucks (certainly not for the airline) so how could they possibly get it?
How many of the current Qantas Board or executive have ever spoken with passion about what they do, the company they work for or what it does? Compare them to Borghetti, Branson or the South West guy and you can see the difference. The impression I get is that it's not an airline to them; it's simply a meal ticket. It could be an aluminium smelter for all they care. The dumb part of it is that doing so often doesn't even cost all that much. It's certainly a lot cheaper than having a big, public punch-up and grounding the fleet. The even dumber part is that even people who live in caves realise that airlines are not natural money-spinners any more than opera companies, and getting into the airline business is sitting at about #10,000 on the list of Great Ways To Make Money.