Plane talking: Bogan Air ATSB report
wazat,
Don't even modify the star/approach. Just turn the autopilot and flight directors off overhead Sheed and look out the window.
As others have stated just be slow, dirty and at 2500' at Sheed.
As for the incident. This happened MONTHS ago, if CASA/ATSB/J*/QF were serious they would have put out some sort of caution or requirement shortly after the event..............nothing, except rumours. (Unlike like the restrictions for YMHB after a non-QF group slip-up a while back)
Clark y.
Don't even modify the star/approach. Just turn the autopilot and flight directors off overhead Sheed and look out the window.
As others have stated just be slow, dirty and at 2500' at Sheed.
As for the incident. This happened MONTHS ago, if CASA/ATSB/J*/QF were serious they would have put out some sort of caution or requirement shortly after the event..............nothing, except rumours. (Unlike like the restrictions for YMHB after a non-QF group slip-up a while back)
Clark y.
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Config 2 and 160 knots over Sheed. At Sheed, flight directors off, bird up, autopilot off, gear down, 4 degrees nose down until reaching 3 degrees slope (on PAPI's), configure on schedule, and square turn onto final. Works every time.
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Config 2 and 160 knots over Sheed. At Sheed, flight directors off, bird up, autopilot off, gear down, 4 degrees nose down until reaching 3 degrees slope (on PAPI's), configure on schedule, and square turn onto final. Works every time.
Is this approach onto 34 any different to what is was a decade or so ago?
If not. Flight Directors Off, Autopilot Off, Look Out The Window.
You are marked down if there's a big roar of power due GS Mini so selected speed on base then managed aligned on final- if a super strong northerly.
If you can't do the above with ease and finesse this explains why your wage is under pressure.
If not. Flight Directors Off, Autopilot Off, Look Out The Window.
You are marked down if there's a big roar of power due GS Mini so selected speed on base then managed aligned on final- if a super strong northerly.
If you can't do the above with ease and finesse this explains why your wage is under pressure.
Nunc est bibendum
If you do it Oakape's way (or similar on the Boeing) then the biggest risk you face is being a tad LOW on approach coming around the corner. Much prefer that landing on 34 in MEL than being high.
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Agree with above:
Flap 1, 180kts, level 1 - 2 nm before Sheed at 2500', Leave Sheed at Flap 2, Gear Down, 160 kts Selected. Nail 1000 fpm until turning final and configure Flap 3, Flap Full when appropriate and it is an easy and enjoyable approach. If you leave sheed to fast or too high then the entire approach is a debacle.
Flap 1, 180kts, level 1 - 2 nm before Sheed at 2500', Leave Sheed at Flap 2, Gear Down, 160 kts Selected. Nail 1000 fpm until turning final and configure Flap 3, Flap Full when appropriate and it is an easy and enjoyable approach. If you leave sheed to fast or too high then the entire approach is a debacle.
I've seen a few people attempt to approach SHEED at F speed then take gear down prior to the descent. Don't to this. Pull speed at 160 (unless you have actually worked out what G/S-mini will be targeting), and take the gear once you have commenced your descent.
By not selecting speed and/or taking gear too early, at best it will give you "SPEED, SPEED, SPEED".... at worst you will find yourself in Alpha Floor. Or if your not an Airbus purist, you could take it one step further but it might offend a few people who believe the stall limitations only apply in ALTN or DIRECT Law.....
By not selecting speed and/or taking gear too early, at best it will give you "SPEED, SPEED, SPEED".... at worst you will find yourself in Alpha Floor. Or if your not an Airbus purist, you could take it one step further but it might offend a few people who believe the stall limitations only apply in ALTN or DIRECT Law.....
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Hi Bula,
Sorry but what do you mean ?
'believe the stall limitations only apply in ALTN or DIRECT Law..... '
So you can stall these things (above 100') in NORMAL law?
Honest question. Thanks.
Sorry but what do you mean ?
'believe the stall limitations only apply in ALTN or DIRECT Law.....
'So you can stall these things (above 100') in NORMAL law?
Honest question. Thanks.
The accident/incident rate per flight hour does seem fairly static over the time period.
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Provide a reference for this assertion or did you just make it up?
Some basic info here:Aviation Occurrence Statistics 2001 to 2010
And in fact wasn't an Assertion, was merely a recognition that there is something else going wrong, and not an escalating accident rate in Australia, maybe here in PNG but not in Aust
Last edited by blackhand; 15th Dec 2011 at 08:18.
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"We have noted expressions of concerns about the long-term viability of aviation, given the rise of budget airlines and customer expectation of ever-reducing fares. I have had the experience of establishing Jetstar...so I am familiar with the budget airline model. The first thing to say is that low fares do not inevitably mean lower safety standards."
A. Joyce
Senate Inquiry
A. Joyce
Senate Inquiry
"Put an A320 (normal law) in the wake of a departing heavy A380 & see if the flight envelope protections will save you from a stall."
The answer to the question "So you can stall these things (above 100') in NORMAL law?" is still no.
The answer to the question "So you can stall these things (above 100') in NORMAL law?" is still no.
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Rubbish
"We have noted expressions of concerns about the long-term viability of aviation, given the rise of budget airlines and customer expectation of ever-reducing fares. I have had the experience of establishing Jetstar...so I am familiar with the budget airline model. The first thing to say is that low fares do not inevitably mean lower safety standards."
Yep, he is familiar with budget airlines, but not so familiar with safety and risk methodolgy...to be sure
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If you are at your approach speed and fully configured the only way you will get "speed. speed. speed" (mel 34 or any other turn onto final)is if you pull into the turn. If you are at a 2-3 degree path it will not happen.
160 kts selected if you are going to turn into a head wind and you don't want thrust to increase to obtain gs mini. Even better have app speed magenta but the aircraft flying at approx 160 kts and as you turn finals your app speed will come up to what you are flying at (160kts).
to set up the app in the box a line from sheed to a 3 mile final will give you approx 6nm to run therefore 6*3 =18 =1800ft + 400ft elev = 2200 ft.
Sheed at 2500ft = profile + 300 ft therfore peg 1000 ft min till 1500 ft and it will work out nicely as long as you are below 200 kts at sheed (less experienced = lower speed at sheed)
160 kts selected if you are going to turn into a head wind and you don't want thrust to increase to obtain gs mini. Even better have app speed magenta but the aircraft flying at approx 160 kts and as you turn finals your app speed will come up to what you are flying at (160kts).
to set up the app in the box a line from sheed to a 3 mile final will give you approx 6nm to run therefore 6*3 =18 =1800ft + 400ft elev = 2200 ft.
Sheed at 2500ft = profile + 300 ft therfore peg 1000 ft min till 1500 ft and it will work out nicely as long as you are below 200 kts at sheed (less experienced = lower speed at sheed)
Unfortunately you're missing my point.
AirNZ lost an aircraft over the last few years when the FACs slipped offline. Yes they fell into direct law so technically they didn't stall in "Normal Law", but it is quite capable of stalling if you push the envelope while within Normal Law so as always, one needs to respect the limitations of Le Bus.
There is no difference stalling from a high AoA maneuver in normal law and subsequently falling into direct law at the stall; to falling into a stall while in direct law.
You were in normal law, then a split second later you are stalled, whether you transition into direct law is irrelevant in my eyes as the end result is the same, a clean pair of undies followed by tea and biscuits, then subsequent pineapple surgery.
(Amended due to the pprune grammar police)
AirNZ lost an aircraft over the last few years when the FACs slipped offline. Yes they fell into direct law so technically they didn't stall in "Normal Law", but it is quite capable of stalling if you push the envelope while within Normal Law so as always, one needs to respect the limitations of Le Bus.
There is no difference stalling from a high AoA maneuver in normal law and subsequently falling into direct law at the stall; to falling into a stall while in direct law.
You were in normal law, then a split second later you are stalled, whether you transition into direct law is irrelevant in my eyes as the end result is the same, a clean pair of undies followed by tea and biscuits, then subsequent pineapple surgery.
(Amended due to the pprune grammar police)
Last edited by Bula; 16th Dec 2011 at 21:09.