Skullduggery in the utopian world of DeeJay Flight ops
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Skullduggery in the utopian world of DeeJay Flight ops
Seems that chicanery, intimidation, bullying and nepotism are all in a days work in utopia.
Word on the street is that management pilots at a certain domestic carrier based in BNE are being TOLD their office time is exempt from the provisions of the FRMS which only applies if one is strapped into an aluminium tube. Which raises a number of interesting questions:
1. Are the HOFO and his sycophants so naive they actually believe this is not a compliance breach? or is it acceptable to do 9 days straight, then have your roster doctored to reflect a day off that never was? Or an requirement in your EBA of being on call 24/7? or an expectation that you WILL travel in your own time? at the very least, I would have thought section 28 and all that duty of care and fit and proper person stuff might be relevant.
2. Given the regulator recently grounded an operator over (amongst other things) serious concerns about insufficient resources, the question goes begging whether selective regulation comes into play? Allegedly these and other issues have been brought to the regulator's attention, yet a recent audit failed to find evidence of any wrong doing. Evidently what's good for the goose is not necessarily good for the gander.
Then of course there's the issue that should one have the temerity to voice one's objection, one can expect to be harassed and bullied or if that fails out-rightly intimidated, all sanctioned by senior management.
Thought that autocratic management style went out in the 90's
Word on the street is that management pilots at a certain domestic carrier based in BNE are being TOLD their office time is exempt from the provisions of the FRMS which only applies if one is strapped into an aluminium tube. Which raises a number of interesting questions:
1. Are the HOFO and his sycophants so naive they actually believe this is not a compliance breach? or is it acceptable to do 9 days straight, then have your roster doctored to reflect a day off that never was? Or an requirement in your EBA of being on call 24/7? or an expectation that you WILL travel in your own time? at the very least, I would have thought section 28 and all that duty of care and fit and proper person stuff might be relevant.
2. Given the regulator recently grounded an operator over (amongst other things) serious concerns about insufficient resources, the question goes begging whether selective regulation comes into play? Allegedly these and other issues have been brought to the regulator's attention, yet a recent audit failed to find evidence of any wrong doing. Evidently what's good for the goose is not necessarily good for the gander.
Then of course there's the issue that should one have the temerity to voice one's objection, one can expect to be harassed and bullied or if that fails out-rightly intimidated, all sanctioned by senior management.
Thought that autocratic management style went out in the 90's
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As a matter of general interest, what is the situation regarding company flight and duty time limitations when some airline pilots voluntarily undergo RAAF Active Reserve flying duties in between their normal day job as airline pilots?
Is their RAAF flying also counted for CASA flight and duty time audits?
Is their RAAF flying also counted for CASA flight and duty time audits?
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Jim Shoos, patience grasshopper. In regards to the audit you refer to, the final report wouldn't have even been compiled yet, so something may yet come out. As has been suggested REPCON is an avenue and if that fails Senator Xenophon is currently very interested in the state of play in Australian aviation, particularly the area of Fatigue. Any facts you have including evidence of any sort like rosters, emails, pay slips etc that reflect what you mention would be warmly received by this unusually proactive politician.
Don't stop fighting the fight Grasshopper.
Don't stop fighting the fight Grasshopper.
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Oh no! They're starting to whinge at that other airline hitherto known by words such as Utopia, Paradise, World's best place, JB's dream, we're all happy.
If you closed you're eyes you could imagine it just another QF thread but on the other hand, maybe it's just part of being a pilot or working for an airline. The flying bit is good but the rest is now and never will meet the expectations of some.
If you closed you're eyes you could imagine it just another QF thread but on the other hand, maybe it's just part of being a pilot or working for an airline. The flying bit is good but the rest is now and never will meet the expectations of some.
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Clotted, can I ask you what you are doing on this forum? You appear to have morphed from a interested observer, probably not even a pilot; professional or otherwise, to an active agitator on some sort of mission to disparage any kind of post you dont like the look of?
What is your reason for being here?
What is your reason for being here?
Tee Emm,
Yes the flight times are included. It is a requirement (at the Rat at least) that one produces a flying summary of 'outside' flying which is then included in your yearly totals.
Yes the flight times are included. It is a requirement (at the Rat at least) that one produces a flying summary of 'outside' flying which is then included in your yearly totals.
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Well Kremin, seeing as you asked, one of the causes (reasons) as it has morphed is to point out the hypocrisy and hollowness and futility of some of the posts on this forum.
You are a good example. You obviously work for QF as a pilot; you have reasonable contacts on the inner circle of AIPA; you carry on as though you hate your employer/job; however you love the paymaster visiting your bank account each and every 2 weeks; your hand obviously doesn't shake when you take the money; you aren't so unhappy that you wish to pack up your kit to move on to another employer that deserves to have your skills and talents; you are quite content to snipe and pontificate from the anonymity or your Prune alias; you obviously don't have the requisite skills/talent/personality to run an airline but believe you know exactly how to do it.
Qantas is all things bad, Virgin is all things good and the way to salvation, in pilot terms, is to follow the Virgin shining star. It just so happens that I don't think so. I'll be happy to admit I was wrong in a couple of years when JB is still CEO of VB, all the VB staff are over the moon with their employer and VB is making a significant profit on a sustainable basis.
You never know, hiding behind my Prune alias I could be anyone from the Prime Minister to a senior QF Captain to the lowliest Second Officer that QF employs. I may even be AJ himself. On the other hand I may not have anything to do with the aviation industry but am a mere outsider like Sunfish or Ohallen or Worrals or Tima9x or a lot of the others.
You are a good example. You obviously work for QF as a pilot; you have reasonable contacts on the inner circle of AIPA; you carry on as though you hate your employer/job; however you love the paymaster visiting your bank account each and every 2 weeks; your hand obviously doesn't shake when you take the money; you aren't so unhappy that you wish to pack up your kit to move on to another employer that deserves to have your skills and talents; you are quite content to snipe and pontificate from the anonymity or your Prune alias; you obviously don't have the requisite skills/talent/personality to run an airline but believe you know exactly how to do it.
Qantas is all things bad, Virgin is all things good and the way to salvation, in pilot terms, is to follow the Virgin shining star. It just so happens that I don't think so. I'll be happy to admit I was wrong in a couple of years when JB is still CEO of VB, all the VB staff are over the moon with their employer and VB is making a significant profit on a sustainable basis.
You never know, hiding behind my Prune alias I could be anyone from the Prime Minister to a senior QF Captain to the lowliest Second Officer that QF employs. I may even be AJ himself. On the other hand I may not have anything to do with the aviation industry but am a mere outsider like Sunfish or Ohallen or Worrals or Tima9x or a lot of the others.
Nunc est bibendum
you have reasonable contacts on the inner circle of AIPA;
you carry on as though you hate your employer/job;
however you love the paymaster visiting your bank account each and every 2 weeks; your hand obviously doesn't shake when you take the money;
you aren't so unhappy that you wish to pack up your kit to move on to another employer that deserves to have your skills and talents;
[quote]you are quite content to snipe and pontificate from the anonymity or your Prune alias;
Ah, if only you really knew how completely moronic you are.
you obviously don't have the requisite skills/talent/personality to run an airline but believe you know exactly how to do it.
Qantas is all things bad, Virgin is all things good and the way to salvation, in pilot terms, is to follow the Virgin shining star.
[quote]You never know, hiding behind my Prune alias I could be anyone from the Prime Minister to a senior QF Captain to the lowliest Second Officer that QF employs. I may even be AJ himself. On the other hand I may not have anything to do with the aviation industry but am a mere outsider like Sunfish or Ohallen or Worrals or Tima9x or a lot of the others.
Given the stupidity of your comments you may be the PM. Given your lack of maturity I'd be surprised if you're a Qantas techie- unless they changed the selection criteria and you're one who slipped in that way. You may be an outsider but you're no Sunfish or Tima9X. They at least indicate a degree of intellectual honesty, maturity and general common sense.
Clotted is either another management wannabe with a overinflated opinion of his aviation prowess or some sort of PR stooge to try and rattle the cage of the QF boys.
Comments like this:
goes to show he has no idea about aviation at all. If he did he would know that
1. What is being claimed, if proven to be true is illegal
2. CASA has and does take action against management pilots for not counting their office time as duty time. So it ain't winging it is a very valid claim if correct.
Personally the original post sounds like someone at Tiger having a go at CASA rather than a VB person complaining but Clotted wants to try and set the QF guys off again.
Jim Shoos could also be a QF plant trying to rattle the Virgin cage come to think of it. Nothing would surprise me in this day and age.
Comments like this:
Oh no! They're starting to whinge at that other airline hitherto known by words such as Utopia, Paradise, World's best place, JB's dream, we're all happy.
If you closed you're eyes you could imagine it just another QF thread but on the other hand, maybe it's just part of being a pilot or working for an airline. The flying bit is good but the rest is now and never will meet the expectations of some.
If you closed you're eyes you could imagine it just another QF thread but on the other hand, maybe it's just part of being a pilot or working for an airline. The flying bit is good but the rest is now and never will meet the expectations of some.
1. What is being claimed, if proven to be true is illegal
2. CASA has and does take action against management pilots for not counting their office time as duty time. So it ain't winging it is a very valid claim if correct.
Personally the original post sounds like someone at Tiger having a go at CASA rather than a VB person complaining but Clotted wants to try and set the QF guys off again.
Jim Shoos could also be a QF plant trying to rattle the Virgin cage come to think of it. Nothing would surprise me in this day and age.
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Clotted's posts reveal a hatred of pilots, the question is why? In reality there could be numerous reasons, but the most likely are as follows;
a) Clotted is a disgruntled husband whose wife ended up on the end of the type of all night 'meat cleavering' that only a pilot can deliver. Poor Clotted is flat out picking up the dogs overnight turd off the lawn he is so unfit and grotesque.
b) Clotted could also be an overweight middle aged man, likely a shelf packer who works the graveyard shift in a supermarket in which he receives 5% discounts on European jams and dog biscuits. He is not much of a man at all, but ended up with a hot wife as she married Clotted hoping that some day his old man would peg out and leave young Clotted the several million he made while being a pimp for a group of Kings Cross hermaphrodites for 3 decades.
c) A more likely scenario is that clotted is a pilot wannabe. He always wanted to fly but only ever had enough grey matter to get a job packing shelves or packaging nails for the Endeavor Foundation. Poor frustrated clotted, could never cut the mustard in the real world. But don't worry as Clotted cuts a pretty mean figure flying 172's on Microsoft SIM.
d) Clotted is your average Gen Y. Left school, daddy is an ex commercial pilot who retired in the 80's you see. Daddy has told young Clotted countless stories about flying the big jets from the 60's through 80's, earned good money, worked minimal hours and had some different poontang in every port each night of the week. But alas, poor Clotted now realizes daddy's cred from the 80's won't buy him a job at QF or DJ, especially a right hand seat straight out of high-school, oh no says Clotted 'I ain't going to start at the bottom and work my way up, I want it all now, instantly, I am a big boy and will be 19 next month'!
But as Clotted says 'he could be anyone'? I am guessing someone more like a complete nupty destined to be hung upon the walls of aviation where many others did not have the smarts, ambition or testicular fortitude to fight for what they really want.
Clotted, time to toddle off back to cloud cuckoo land and go back to flying a gyrocopter or fiddling with your noodle amongst all the other excited plane spotters.
a) Clotted is a disgruntled husband whose wife ended up on the end of the type of all night 'meat cleavering' that only a pilot can deliver. Poor Clotted is flat out picking up the dogs overnight turd off the lawn he is so unfit and grotesque.
b) Clotted could also be an overweight middle aged man, likely a shelf packer who works the graveyard shift in a supermarket in which he receives 5% discounts on European jams and dog biscuits. He is not much of a man at all, but ended up with a hot wife as she married Clotted hoping that some day his old man would peg out and leave young Clotted the several million he made while being a pimp for a group of Kings Cross hermaphrodites for 3 decades.
c) A more likely scenario is that clotted is a pilot wannabe. He always wanted to fly but only ever had enough grey matter to get a job packing shelves or packaging nails for the Endeavor Foundation. Poor frustrated clotted, could never cut the mustard in the real world. But don't worry as Clotted cuts a pretty mean figure flying 172's on Microsoft SIM.
d) Clotted is your average Gen Y. Left school, daddy is an ex commercial pilot who retired in the 80's you see. Daddy has told young Clotted countless stories about flying the big jets from the 60's through 80's, earned good money, worked minimal hours and had some different poontang in every port each night of the week. But alas, poor Clotted now realizes daddy's cred from the 80's won't buy him a job at QF or DJ, especially a right hand seat straight out of high-school, oh no says Clotted 'I ain't going to start at the bottom and work my way up, I want it all now, instantly, I am a big boy and will be 19 next month'!
But as Clotted says 'he could be anyone'? I am guessing someone more like a complete nupty destined to be hung upon the walls of aviation where many others did not have the smarts, ambition or testicular fortitude to fight for what they really want.
Clotted, time to toddle off back to cloud cuckoo land and go back to flying a gyrocopter or fiddling with your noodle amongst all the other excited plane spotters.
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Clotted, I dont know who you are but I know who I am and more importantly, I know the people I fly with.
Most of them are like me. They decided at an early age.. I was 6.... that being a Qantas pilot was all they ever wanted to be and set about trying to achieve that dream.
I was one of the lucky ones who managed to do exactly that. The Qantas I joined was not perfect, but it stood for something. The Flight Operations department of QF, alongside of the the Engineering department were international bywords for operational excellence.
You wouldn't have seen what I have seen over the years. I was sitting in Singapore one night waiting to depart when a CB arrived over the airfield. Other airlines were calling for clearance to go when the skipper I was with decided we were going to wait this one out, even though that meant delaying the flight. He told me to cancel our clearance and as soon as we did eight other flights from other airlines did the same thing. It was almost as if that because QF had decided to wait, then that was good enough for them as well.
I personally sat on the threshold of one of the runways at Hong Kong for an hour, waiting for a wind report from the tower that I would feel comfortable departing with. We had seven aircraft of different airlines in the queue behind us and not one of them uttered a peep.
When I got to destination over an hour late, not a word was heard from my management, because the day I checked out in command they told me that they would never question one of my decisions if it was based on safety.
I have many other examples of the same phenomena.
I use these examples not to blow my own horn but to point out to people like you that the QF I joined had a culture that meant something the world over.
The reason I post here, and do other things that I won't mention is because I am angry. I am angry that non-aviation blow-ins who know the cost of everything and the value of nothing, are mid-way through the destruction of that culture that took 90 years to create and once gone, will never be seen again.
I am angry because good people, who jumped the same hoops I did, who took up a job offered in good faith, are having the rules of the game changed on them through no fault of their own.
I am angry because I have to sit through .... what is the classic phrase?..... an orchestrated litany of lies?? ...... every time I read anything from the mouths of my so-called leaders.
They lie with a fluency that belies a total lack of integrity, and a belief that the ends, justify whatever means used.
You cannot run a business such as this without integrity. I get emails from Joyce, Strambi and the chief pilot. I delete them instantly. I can no longer sit through the crap they sprout.
About 8 years ago, Qantas management apparently decided that they needed to change the Company. Fair enough. The only problem is that they never told the employees. So they set about their task by using deceit. The lies they told in the intervening years are well documented on this forum.
The toxic culture of lying is so embedded they even used it on their Jetstar employees, who were the vanguard of this change whether they knew it or not. You ask any Jetstar employee how much they trust their management... the answer will be very illuminating.
The attempt to force change by stealth and deceit may be just about to hit a wall. If it does and takes this cast of clowns down with them I shall dance in the streets.
I love my job. It is all I ever wanted to do. But the destruction of a safety culture for reasons that will enrich a select few, a few that will probably avoid the smoking hole in the ground that will inevitably result, is something I will not stand idly by and watch.
Those who know me know what that last sentence means. I dont spend all my time here reading the uninformed drivel of the likes of you. Lets leave it at that.
Most of them are like me. They decided at an early age.. I was 6.... that being a Qantas pilot was all they ever wanted to be and set about trying to achieve that dream.
I was one of the lucky ones who managed to do exactly that. The Qantas I joined was not perfect, but it stood for something. The Flight Operations department of QF, alongside of the the Engineering department were international bywords for operational excellence.
You wouldn't have seen what I have seen over the years. I was sitting in Singapore one night waiting to depart when a CB arrived over the airfield. Other airlines were calling for clearance to go when the skipper I was with decided we were going to wait this one out, even though that meant delaying the flight. He told me to cancel our clearance and as soon as we did eight other flights from other airlines did the same thing. It was almost as if that because QF had decided to wait, then that was good enough for them as well.
I personally sat on the threshold of one of the runways at Hong Kong for an hour, waiting for a wind report from the tower that I would feel comfortable departing with. We had seven aircraft of different airlines in the queue behind us and not one of them uttered a peep.
When I got to destination over an hour late, not a word was heard from my management, because the day I checked out in command they told me that they would never question one of my decisions if it was based on safety.
I have many other examples of the same phenomena.
I use these examples not to blow my own horn but to point out to people like you that the QF I joined had a culture that meant something the world over.
The reason I post here, and do other things that I won't mention is because I am angry. I am angry that non-aviation blow-ins who know the cost of everything and the value of nothing, are mid-way through the destruction of that culture that took 90 years to create and once gone, will never be seen again.
I am angry because good people, who jumped the same hoops I did, who took up a job offered in good faith, are having the rules of the game changed on them through no fault of their own.
I am angry because I have to sit through .... what is the classic phrase?..... an orchestrated litany of lies?? ...... every time I read anything from the mouths of my so-called leaders.
They lie with a fluency that belies a total lack of integrity, and a belief that the ends, justify whatever means used.
You cannot run a business such as this without integrity. I get emails from Joyce, Strambi and the chief pilot. I delete them instantly. I can no longer sit through the crap they sprout.
About 8 years ago, Qantas management apparently decided that they needed to change the Company. Fair enough. The only problem is that they never told the employees. So they set about their task by using deceit. The lies they told in the intervening years are well documented on this forum.
The toxic culture of lying is so embedded they even used it on their Jetstar employees, who were the vanguard of this change whether they knew it or not. You ask any Jetstar employee how much they trust their management... the answer will be very illuminating.
The attempt to force change by stealth and deceit may be just about to hit a wall. If it does and takes this cast of clowns down with them I shall dance in the streets.
I love my job. It is all I ever wanted to do. But the destruction of a safety culture for reasons that will enrich a select few, a few that will probably avoid the smoking hole in the ground that will inevitably result, is something I will not stand idly by and watch.
Those who know me know what that last sentence means. I dont spend all my time here reading the uninformed drivel of the likes of you. Lets leave it at that.
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There's a clot in here. Someone hold my jacket;
This goose seems to have very little scruple when attacking the man, not the ball from behind a Pprune handle, seems that's OK.
I, for one am fed up with his endless spewing of bile. Look fool, most of these guys are top of the tree pro's who actually care not only for their families, colleagues, the passengers they carry, but the company they work for and they have earned the right to have the odd whinge or two. They have some pretty serious problems at the moment, not of their own making, but they will as usual sort them out.
But if you notice, mostly they offer intelligent solutions to complex problems, it's what they are paid for, solving problems.
Put him on my special list Shirley. (I had to sack Joyce, it was that or homicide).
I, for one am fed up with his endless spewing of bile. Look fool, most of these guys are top of the tree pro's who actually care not only for their families, colleagues, the passengers they carry, but the company they work for and they have earned the right to have the odd whinge or two. They have some pretty serious problems at the moment, not of their own making, but they will as usual sort them out.
But if you notice, mostly they offer intelligent solutions to complex problems, it's what they are paid for, solving problems.
Put him on my special list Shirley. (I had to sack Joyce, it was that or homicide).
Last edited by Kharon; 29th Nov 2011 at 17:29. Reason: Spello - Homocide not in Websters.
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Personally the original post sounds like someone at Tiger having a go at CASA rather than a VB person
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Which one happened to you to make you such a grump gobbledock?
