Red Q - Dead in the water?
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Your not the only one who thinks like that Dotty.
Sandilands pretty much covers it in his latest Qantas London piece.
This article is available at Qantas to turn away 400,000 London passengers in 2012 | Plane Talking
Sandilands pretty much covers it in his latest Qantas London piece.
It’s not that Asia isn’t critical to the future of Qantas. But so is good management, and a workable strategy............
Reviewing what Qantas has said and done this year, it is reasonable to conclude that the board and management has something else on its mind than the medium to long term survival of the airline.
Reviewing what Qantas has said and done this year, it is reasonable to conclude that the board and management has something else on its mind than the medium to long term survival of the airline.
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AIPA is the last organisation that should be telling anyone how to run their business.
Woodward should take a lead from Purvinas, get his name out of the press, get his voice off the radio, get his face off the television and ensure that AIPA gets on and negotiates a pragmatic agreement to outstanding matters before FWA decides to change significant bits of their EBA in accordance with Qantas claims.
IMO FWA will never give a decision favourable to AIPA with respect to the ridiculous AIPA claims. Purvinas was smart enough to drop their ridiculous claims so that the engineers didn't expose themselves to being disadvantaged by FWA decisions. Once the ridiculous claims were dropped, hey presto, an agreement was reached quite quickly.
Woodward should take a lead from Purvinas, get his name out of the press, get his voice off the radio, get his face off the television and ensure that AIPA gets on and negotiates a pragmatic agreement to outstanding matters before FWA decides to change significant bits of their EBA in accordance with Qantas claims.
IMO FWA will never give a decision favourable to AIPA with respect to the ridiculous AIPA claims. Purvinas was smart enough to drop their ridiculous claims so that the engineers didn't expose themselves to being disadvantaged by FWA decisions. Once the ridiculous claims were dropped, hey presto, an agreement was reached quite quickly.
Well then, Fatmike, you should be pleased to know that AIPA has indeed approached the company about the possibility of a 'quick deal'. As I understand it, the deal would give away some of the fundamental concerns as indicated by the membership during surveys and ballots. I'm not so sure it is such a good idea but then I do agree with you that a FWA arbitrated outcome would not be good for AIPA members either.
Keep in mind the share price
We know that times are tough for airlines, but Alan Joyce and the Board smile and pretend everything is OK.
The reality is that the share price (QAN.AX) has been hovering around $1.50 (not far from its all-time low) for sometime now, regardless of how many smiles and confident statements Joyce makes.
SO QANTAS SHAREHOLDERS ARE SAYING THAT QANTAS MANAGEMENT IS NOT MAKING ANY SMART DECISIONS.
If you compare Qantas, Virgin Aust share price (VAH.AX) and the ALL ORDS starting say at Jan 1, 2011, then you can see that the all ORDS has lost about 15% in that time, Virgin 30% and Qantas 45%. In other words, Virgin has fared much better this year.
see QAN.AX Basic Chart | QANTAS FPO Stock - Yahoo!7 Finance
SO THE OBJECTIVE DATA ARE SHOWING THAT QANTAS IS POORLY MANAGED ON A COMPARATIVE BASIS, AS JUDGED BY ALL SHAREHOLDERS.
These are the facts that no spin will change.
A tragedy.....
SB
The reality is that the share price (QAN.AX) has been hovering around $1.50 (not far from its all-time low) for sometime now, regardless of how many smiles and confident statements Joyce makes.
SO QANTAS SHAREHOLDERS ARE SAYING THAT QANTAS MANAGEMENT IS NOT MAKING ANY SMART DECISIONS.
If you compare Qantas, Virgin Aust share price (VAH.AX) and the ALL ORDS starting say at Jan 1, 2011, then you can see that the all ORDS has lost about 15% in that time, Virgin 30% and Qantas 45%. In other words, Virgin has fared much better this year.
see QAN.AX Basic Chart | QANTAS FPO Stock - Yahoo!7 Finance
SO THE OBJECTIVE DATA ARE SHOWING THAT QANTAS IS POORLY MANAGED ON A COMPARATIVE BASIS, AS JUDGED BY ALL SHAREHOLDERS.
These are the facts that no spin will change.
A tragedy.....
SB
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Ridiculous Claims
Fatmike, what were the ridiculous claims that you believe Steve Purvinas "dropped" from the engineers list?
What are the ridiculous claims you believe the pilots should drop from theirs?
What are the ridiculous claims you believe the pilots should drop from theirs?
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A. A380 hangar
B. Pay and conditions on the longhaul EBA or no worse than longhaul EBA for nearly all Qantas entity pilots; staff travel firm holiday seats and first class lounge access; banded pay by payload for all fleets; paid timeoff for union officials doing union work; Qantas paying the tax on loss of licence payouts; that'll do for a start.
B. Pay and conditions on the longhaul EBA or no worse than longhaul EBA for nearly all Qantas entity pilots; staff travel firm holiday seats and first class lounge access; banded pay by payload for all fleets; paid timeoff for union officials doing union work; Qantas paying the tax on loss of licence payouts; that'll do for a start.
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Fatmike
A. 380 Hangar
Maybe you think this is a ridiculous claim, but for me, not so. When my employer tells me that I have to bid for any future work I do on "their" aircraft, all the way up to heavy maintenance work, then the logical step would be to ask - how can I do that if you have not provided me with the infrastructure and equipment to do so?
Their response to this claim and other claims with regards to the introduction of the Cat A's proves that they have no interest in the future of aircraft maintenance, within Qantas or Australia. Personally I would have thought that this would have helped strengthen the position of Qantas in the future with the whole perception of engineering excellence that we used to have, but the current Board obviously have a different view.
B. I am sure alot of the pilot group would believe that the claims that you deem "ridiculous" are not so. Some of these may indeed just be there to "fluff" the claims out and would be fantastic to get but not much hope ie. can easily be ditched to focus on the main ones they really need to fight for.
As many others on various threads have been saying for way too long, Qf management have not been willing to negotiate - the response to each claim has been an emphatic NO, (for the LAME's), so one could assume it is the same with the pilots. The LAME negotiating team did give plenty of scenarios of how some of their claims could be introduced, with the associated costings, and despite what the Qf PR machine has spitted out to a mostly ineffectual australian media, the costings would not have crippled the airline.
If you believe you could do a better job than put your hand up to get onto the AIPA executive during the next election period. As for now, voice your concerns with the current executive.
Maybe you think this is a ridiculous claim, but for me, not so. When my employer tells me that I have to bid for any future work I do on "their" aircraft, all the way up to heavy maintenance work, then the logical step would be to ask - how can I do that if you have not provided me with the infrastructure and equipment to do so?
Their response to this claim and other claims with regards to the introduction of the Cat A's proves that they have no interest in the future of aircraft maintenance, within Qantas or Australia. Personally I would have thought that this would have helped strengthen the position of Qantas in the future with the whole perception of engineering excellence that we used to have, but the current Board obviously have a different view.
B. I am sure alot of the pilot group would believe that the claims that you deem "ridiculous" are not so. Some of these may indeed just be there to "fluff" the claims out and would be fantastic to get but not much hope ie. can easily be ditched to focus on the main ones they really need to fight for.
As many others on various threads have been saying for way too long, Qf management have not been willing to negotiate - the response to each claim has been an emphatic NO, (for the LAME's), so one could assume it is the same with the pilots. The LAME negotiating team did give plenty of scenarios of how some of their claims could be introduced, with the associated costings, and despite what the Qf PR machine has spitted out to a mostly ineffectual australian media, the costings would not have crippled the airline.
If you believe you could do a better job than put your hand up to get onto the AIPA executive during the next election period. As for now, voice your concerns with the current executive.
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As for now, voice your concerns with the current executive.
WnB, you don't seem to understand that the 3 unions got themselves out-manouvred in the negotiations. Purvinas was smart enough to realise that. Did you notice that he and Sheldon shut up regarding the "we're coming to get ya" rhetoric, as from the day after the PIA was terminated.
Woodward not so and Jackson not so. They are always in press talking about anything from Qantas issues to lost dogs. None of which benefits the Qantas pilots cause. Arguably it detracts.
For the pilots, this round of the fight is over for about 3-4 years. The game is about preventing losses to Qantas pilots in the FWA arbitration. I just hope their legal team is smart enough to realise that.
If you took the time to read the information available or talk to a COM member, you would realise that AIPA's first priority is saving jobs then conditions. The assumptions you are basing your argument on FatMike are incorrect.
Last edited by theheadmaster; 22nd Dec 2011 at 19:01. Reason: clarity
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The Big Picture Airline Trends
A little bit off topic but related... forgive me..
Great post SB
I note that this story made it onto the "just before Christmas slot" major aviation news story in London (to be forgotten) as the final pre Christmas parties set in...
global airline consolidation? in line with the FF groupings.... one world, Star A and the other guys...
LH selling BMI back to BA?....... now, who would have thought that, back when BA was experimenting with it's own LCC version Err, Go Fly?
That didn't last long as BA off loaded Go FLY and went back to concentrating on its own premium product.... oh that's right, AJ has donated the Q Bangkok London route, (among others) to be managed by BA at her pleasure until further notice.
Meanwhile, AJ BB are "ducking and diving" through the cultural diversity of SE Asia (KL and Singapore) and to my fascination, pretending to have the answers. It appears, they still don't know whether it's KL or Singapore... as this year is now rapidly drawing to a close... is it possible AJ has a vision similar to Willie Walsh, but in reverse, Jetstar buys Qantas....?
only joking......
Jingle Bells.
by Seabreeze..Keep in mind the share price
I note that this story made it onto the "just before Christmas slot" major aviation news story in London (to be forgotten) as the final pre Christmas parties set in...
global airline consolidation? in line with the FF groupings.... one world, Star A and the other guys...
BBC News - British Airways owner IAG buys BMI from Lufthansa
British Airways owner IAG buys BMI from Lufthansa
British Airways owner IAG has agreed a binding deal to buy BMI from Lufthansa for £172.5m, but has warned the deal could lead to job losses.
IAG, which also owns Spanish airline Iberia, will gain 56 more slots at Heathrow airport in the deal.
The airlines said they hoped the takeover would be completed in the first three months of next yearThe airlines said they hoped the takeover would be completed in the first three months of next year.
The deal remains subject to clearance by competition bodies, and rival Virgin has said it will oppose the tie-up.
Lufthansa had signed a non-exclusive agreement with IAG in November, but had also been in talks with Virgin.
In a statement, Sir Richard Branson, chairman of Virgin Group, said: "BA is already dominant at Heathrow and their removal of BMI just tightens their stranglehold at the world's busiest international airport.
"We will fight this monopoly every step of the way as we think it is bad for the consumer, bad for the industry and bad for Britain."
Job losses BMI employs more than 3,600 staff, but reported a £153m loss in the year to 2010.
IAG chief executive Willie Walsh said: "Given the scale of BMI's losses, there is an urgent need to restructure the business.
"Unfortunately, this will mean some job losses but we will secure a significant number of high quality jobs here in the UK and create similar new jobs in the future.
Mr Walsh said the restructuring would be carried out over a three-year period.
BMI, which is based in Castle Donington in Leicestershire, operates flights to Europe, the Middle East and Africa.
It has 8.5% of the landing slots at Heathrow, the UK's busiest airport, which are seen as the main attraction of a purchase.
BMI also operates the BMI Baby and BMI Regional brands, which have no landing slots in London airports.
Lufthansa has the option to sell both BMI Baby and BMI Regional before the deal with IAG is completed.
If Lufthansa does not sell BMI Baby before the deal is completed, IAG said the price it would pay would be subject to a "significant" reduction.
Landing slots Several European airline takeovers have been referred to the European Commission competition authority in the past.
The Commission has prevented takeovers between airlines that operate within the same country in the past, such as in the cases of Ryanair and Aer Lingus in the Irish Republic, and Olympian and Aegean in Greece.
However, the Commission analyses competition issues on a route-by-route basis, rather than on the basis of domination of a particular national market.
If a merger between two airlines restricts passenger choice along a route, then the Commission may ask the airline to give up some of its landing slots to enable another company to launch a competing service
British Airways owner IAG buys BMI from Lufthansa
British Airways owner IAG has agreed a binding deal to buy BMI from Lufthansa for £172.5m, but has warned the deal could lead to job losses.
IAG, which also owns Spanish airline Iberia, will gain 56 more slots at Heathrow airport in the deal.
The airlines said they hoped the takeover would be completed in the first three months of next yearThe airlines said they hoped the takeover would be completed in the first three months of next year.
The deal remains subject to clearance by competition bodies, and rival Virgin has said it will oppose the tie-up.
Lufthansa had signed a non-exclusive agreement with IAG in November, but had also been in talks with Virgin.
In a statement, Sir Richard Branson, chairman of Virgin Group, said: "BA is already dominant at Heathrow and their removal of BMI just tightens their stranglehold at the world's busiest international airport.
"We will fight this monopoly every step of the way as we think it is bad for the consumer, bad for the industry and bad for Britain."
Job losses BMI employs more than 3,600 staff, but reported a £153m loss in the year to 2010.
IAG chief executive Willie Walsh said: "Given the scale of BMI's losses, there is an urgent need to restructure the business.
"Unfortunately, this will mean some job losses but we will secure a significant number of high quality jobs here in the UK and create similar new jobs in the future.
Mr Walsh said the restructuring would be carried out over a three-year period.
BMI, which is based in Castle Donington in Leicestershire, operates flights to Europe, the Middle East and Africa.
It has 8.5% of the landing slots at Heathrow, the UK's busiest airport, which are seen as the main attraction of a purchase.
BMI also operates the BMI Baby and BMI Regional brands, which have no landing slots in London airports.
Lufthansa has the option to sell both BMI Baby and BMI Regional before the deal with IAG is completed.
If Lufthansa does not sell BMI Baby before the deal is completed, IAG said the price it would pay would be subject to a "significant" reduction.
Landing slots Several European airline takeovers have been referred to the European Commission competition authority in the past.
The Commission has prevented takeovers between airlines that operate within the same country in the past, such as in the cases of Ryanair and Aer Lingus in the Irish Republic, and Olympian and Aegean in Greece.
However, the Commission analyses competition issues on a route-by-route basis, rather than on the basis of domination of a particular national market.
If a merger between two airlines restricts passenger choice along a route, then the Commission may ask the airline to give up some of its landing slots to enable another company to launch a competing service
That didn't last long as BA off loaded Go FLY and went back to concentrating on its own premium product.... oh that's right, AJ has donated the Q Bangkok London route, (among others) to be managed by BA at her pleasure until further notice.
Meanwhile, AJ BB are "ducking and diving" through the cultural diversity of SE Asia (KL and Singapore) and to my fascination, pretending to have the answers. It appears, they still don't know whether it's KL or Singapore... as this year is now rapidly drawing to a close... is it possible AJ has a vision similar to Willie Walsh, but in reverse, Jetstar buys Qantas....?
only joking......
Jingle Bells.
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An Irishman in Asia
Most Australians have difficulty understanding Joyce.
He may as well speak Swahili in Asia.
Joyce's performance in Asia will be nothing if not entertaining
He may as well speak Swahili in Asia.
Joyce's performance in Asia will be nothing if not entertaining
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ANALYSIS: MAS targets new recovery route
ANALYSIS: MAS targets new recovery route
The surprise, though, is its decision to start a new premium regional airline by the second half of 2012. The carrier will operate a fleet of new Boeing 737-800s on key business routes and connect Malaysia to cities in south Asia and greater China.
The long-term plan, however, is for it to take over all domestic and regional routes served by MAS, enabling the parent airline to focus exclusively on long-haul.
The surprise, though, is its decision to start a new premium regional airline by the second half of 2012. The carrier will operate a fleet of new Boeing 737-800s on key business routes and connect Malaysia to cities in south Asia and greater China.
The long-term plan, however, is for it to take over all domestic and regional routes served by MAS, enabling the parent airline to focus exclusively on long-haul.
Rumour from Fort Fumble is that the pilot heading up the team to 'establish the operational requirements' of FarQ has returned to the line on the 767. But Of course they are saying "it's all still going ahead" in their most confident voice ?! 
Yet another pilot to add to the surplus of Cpts on the 767.
Yet another pilot to add to the surplus of Cpts on the 767.
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....and, the acting fleet mgr asks us to welcome him back.
And that he's sure he's looking forward to catching up.
Is he ordered to right this sort of drivel? Or worse, does
he mean it?
The act of helping set up Red Q was a Judas act and should
be treated accordingly.
And that he's sure he's looking forward to catching up.
Is he ordered to right this sort of drivel? Or worse, does
he mean it?
The act of helping set up Red Q was a Judas act and should
be treated accordingly.
....and, the acting fleet mgr asks us to welcome him back.
And that he's sure he's looking forward to catching up.
Is he ordered to right this sort of drivel? Or worse, does
he mean it?
The act of helping set up Red Q was a Judas act and should
be treated accordingly.
And that he's sure he's looking forward to catching up.
Is he ordered to right this sort of drivel? Or worse, does
he mean it?
The act of helping set up Red Q was a Judas act and should
be treated accordingly.
or