Red Q - Dead in the water?
Chinese visitors are 'pouring into Australia' and what do we offer them? Daily from Shanghai to Sydney and that's it.
Not including HK or Taiwan, Air China, China Eastern Airlines, China Southern Airlines & Hainan Airlines:
Carried 49,492 pax on 232 flights in Jul v QF's 8,054 pax (16%) on 31 flights,
Carried 42,780 pax on 226 flights in Aug v QF's 5,345 pax (12%) on 30 flights and
Carried 41,551 pax on 227 flights in Sep v QF's 5,718 pax (14%) on 27 flights.
Alan doesn't even understand that he has no leverage.
He doesn't understand that he doesn't have the relationships either.
- Do you stay up drinking brandy with the Chinese till 4.00am?
- Do you help their kids come and study in Australia, keep an eye on them and bail them out if they get into trouble?
- Do you help their extended family and friends with "Immigration" matters?
- Do you wine and dine them as a family in your own home when they visit Australia?
- Do you "facilitate" a little foreign exchange movement for them?
- Do you have several of your executives and Board members doing this on a daily basis?
- Have you trained a raft of senior Qantas executives who are fluent in Mandarin and Cantonese?
- Do you have the brains to sort out the "main chancers" (ie: "My uncle is a Politburo member") from the genuine article?
Do you persevere at this for Five to Seven years while they decide if you are genuine or not?
Sadly no. The Chinese will then rightly decide that you are just another western get rich quick merchant and you will be treated accordingly.
He doesn't understand that he doesn't have the relationships either.
- Do you stay up drinking brandy with the Chinese till 4.00am?
- Do you help their kids come and study in Australia, keep an eye on them and bail them out if they get into trouble?
- Do you help their extended family and friends with "Immigration" matters?
- Do you wine and dine them as a family in your own home when they visit Australia?
- Do you "facilitate" a little foreign exchange movement for them?
- Do you have several of your executives and Board members doing this on a daily basis?
- Have you trained a raft of senior Qantas executives who are fluent in Mandarin and Cantonese?
- Do you have the brains to sort out the "main chancers" (ie: "My uncle is a Politburo member") from the genuine article?
Do you persevere at this for Five to Seven years while they decide if you are genuine or not?
Sadly no. The Chinese will then rightly decide that you are just another western get rich quick merchant and you will be treated accordingly.
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Jetstar Pacific gone?
Just to top it off, here is the latest from Ben, via Crikey.
Will Qantas account to shareholders for the failure of its Jetstar Pacific venture, or just pretend it isn’t so?
December 8, 2011 – 8:51 am, by Ben Sandilands
This report from Vietnam on the fate of Jetstar Pacific comes from a government controlled news agency. It tells us the Jetstar Pacific franchise 27% owned by Qantas is finished.
It requires answers from Jetstar or its owner Qantas, preferably before the stock market opens.
Is this really the end of the Jetstar franchise in Vietnam? How much money has Qantas burned in this sorry little investment? What can it recover in the way of tangible assets, that is, fleet? Or has it done every last cent it ever spent on the venture?
There are as always larger issues here, starting with the capabilities of the Qantas management to successfully do business in Asia.
No-one needs convincing that Asia is going to be an incredible source of growth in air travel.
But does Qantas really believe that in Asia the national competitors are going to shift to one side to make room for an Australian controlled entity masquerading as an Asian flag carrier with the express purpose of subsidising Qantas Australia operations that are so badly run they are uncompetitive?
“Hello, we’re from Qantas, and we want to take away part of your boom” is perhaps not the best way to go about things.
Especially if the Asian states that see a sucker on sight know that saying “Yes, come on in, but we’re going to set up our little harmless venture in Australia to fly the Pacific or non-stop to London in 10 years time” means the same as “Sure. But we’re going to kill you in return.”
Will Qantas account to shareholders for the failure of its Jetstar Pacific venture, or just pretend it isn’t so?
December 8, 2011 – 8:51 am, by Ben Sandilands
This report from Vietnam on the fate of Jetstar Pacific comes from a government controlled news agency. It tells us the Jetstar Pacific franchise 27% owned by Qantas is finished.
It requires answers from Jetstar or its owner Qantas, preferably before the stock market opens.
Is this really the end of the Jetstar franchise in Vietnam? How much money has Qantas burned in this sorry little investment? What can it recover in the way of tangible assets, that is, fleet? Or has it done every last cent it ever spent on the venture?
There are as always larger issues here, starting with the capabilities of the Qantas management to successfully do business in Asia.
No-one needs convincing that Asia is going to be an incredible source of growth in air travel.
But does Qantas really believe that in Asia the national competitors are going to shift to one side to make room for an Australian controlled entity masquerading as an Asian flag carrier with the express purpose of subsidising Qantas Australia operations that are so badly run they are uncompetitive?
“Hello, we’re from Qantas, and we want to take away part of your boom” is perhaps not the best way to go about things.
Especially if the Asian states that see a sucker on sight know that saying “Yes, come on in, but we’re going to set up our little harmless venture in Australia to fly the Pacific or non-stop to London in 10 years time” means the same as “Sure. But we’re going to kill you in return.”
This will be blamed upon those terrible Australian unions (AIPA,TWU,ALAEA) of course. If not then the GFC mark 2. For keeping it out of the mainline press and not letting management cop the blame AJ will receive a massive bonus.Thank goodness we have such great management, this along with saving us from falling into the trap of having those terrible 777s. 
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QANTAS get off your ass and put those 6, 747-400 about to be scraped, the 767 about to be scraped or lease some 777's, onto some new/more Premium QF China slots.
That advise you can have for free..
If the future is China as you say, well FFS, F-L-Y there! (and back as QF)
That advise you can have for free..
If the future is China as you say, well FFS, F-L-Y there! (and back as QF)
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Short circuit.. you obviously have no idea about running an airline 
More seriously, I am amazed at those China numbers posted. Sadly we're not even trying. Reason...why build it up when you want to get rid of it.
More seriously, I am amazed at those China numbers posted. Sadly we're not even trying. Reason...why build it up when you want to get rid of it.
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Sunfish is bang on the money yet again.
The complete lack of understanding of the rules of the game by QF management is just embarrassing.
Embarrassing in the same way where you pretend you're not Australian in some far flung bar on the other side of the world when a group of loud, Aussie bogans arrive to give us all a bad name...
PG
The complete lack of understanding of the rules of the game by QF management is just embarrassing.
Embarrassing in the same way where you pretend you're not Australian in some far flung bar on the other side of the world when a group of loud, Aussie bogans arrive to give us all a bad name...
PG
Last edited by Popgun; 8th Dec 2011 at 04:28. Reason: typo
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Short circuit.. you obviously have no idea about running an airline
Why don't QF put some capacity into & out off China, old 744, 763,new 777 or what ever. There is at least one day a week where 90% of aircraft parked at SIT are Chinese.
Why invest BILLIONS of QF reserves in a minority joint venture with mythical A320 long range A/C, when current equipment could be deployed to "The Growth Area" of aviation ie China and bring it to Oz.
Last edited by Short_Circuit; 8th Dec 2011 at 07:19. Reason: Lots of changes
When you live....
PM tonight
I think Olivia might regret this one in the future..... Listen to how she avoids the question regarding bankruptcy then second time round says "absolutely not" then doesn't answer the question again....
Qantas denies Jetstar Pacific merger talk - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
Qantas denies Jetstar Pacific merger talk - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
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Oh dear,
If she says "we're committed" one more time - she should be committed.
Used that one about a thousand times.
Used "going forward" about a hundred times.
I think I might become the head of "corporate communications" for someone.
Doesn't seem that hard.
If she says "we're committed" one more time - she should be committed.
Used that one about a thousand times.
Used "going forward" about a hundred times.
I think I might become the head of "corporate communications" for someone.
Doesn't seem that hard.
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I think Olivia might regret this one in the future
This will be blamed upon those terrible Australian unions (AIPA,TWU,ALAEA) of course. If not then the GFC mark 2.
for example, AJ has made the news again for all the wrong reasons...he managed to score himself a spot on the Looking back "big news events for 2011" 7.30s Clarke and Dawe, it's only a little snippet (about 2.08 in) but would have raised a chuckle with many who saw it and will stick in their minds well into next year.
It will come back to haunt AJ and OW as this Jetstar Pacific story grows. I am beginning to think 2012 will be tough for the both of them.
Last edited by TIMA9X; 8th Dec 2011 at 14:22.
More seriously, I am amazed at those China numbers posted. Sadly we're not even trying.
Cathay 72,884 pax on 303 flights in Jul v QF's 22,829 pax (24%) on 83 flights,
Cathay 56,971 pax on 309 flights in Aug v QF's 15,728 pax (22%) on 81 flights,
Cathay 61,905 pax on 305 flights in Sep v QF's 18,479 pax (23%) on 78 flights,
Then there's China Airlines into Taiwan 21,261 pax for the 3 months on 92 flights in competition with?
Yep, they are not even trying.
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One of the real problems AJ / OW / LC now face is that incompetent management actions that previously would have sailed beneath the mainstream media interest threshold are now being picked up.
A good example is JQ Asia. It has only every made money recently because of a 'favourable' leasing deal with JQ. Overall it has cost the group 100's of millions of dollars. This fact has surfaced during media coverage of the dispute.
JQP is the more recent example. Now nationalised by the Vietnamese government, another 200M or so pi$$ed away. Under Dixon's reign that would have gone unnoticed - now OW has had to try and spin her way out of it, and she is in real trouble.
Most financial journalists are now aware of the true nature of QF management decisions - driven by greed, lies, ego, hubris and an ideological hatred of the workforce.
Its only iPads, Grange and Chairmans Lounge that are semi keeping a lid on things. At some point though this will change. There is a tipping point, and we are really close to it.
AIPA needs to keep the pressure on. Good to see Woody in the media last night doing just that
A good example is JQ Asia. It has only every made money recently because of a 'favourable' leasing deal with JQ. Overall it has cost the group 100's of millions of dollars. This fact has surfaced during media coverage of the dispute.
JQP is the more recent example. Now nationalised by the Vietnamese government, another 200M or so pi$$ed away. Under Dixon's reign that would have gone unnoticed - now OW has had to try and spin her way out of it, and she is in real trouble.
Most financial journalists are now aware of the true nature of QF management decisions - driven by greed, lies, ego, hubris and an ideological hatred of the workforce.
Its only iPads, Grange and Chairmans Lounge that are semi keeping a lid on things. At some point though this will change. There is a tipping point, and we are really close to it.
AIPA needs to keep the pressure on. Good to see Woody in the media last night doing just that
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To be sure
Sunfish, I hope you don't mind me answering those very well apportioned questions in a truthful fashion on behalf of the narcissists!!
No. The 'QF' heirachy prefer to sip green tea and hit the fluffy floral patterened pillow by 2100.
-
No. Due to the 'personal' preferences of many QF power players we will will never procreate, a physical impossibility by any medical measure. We do not fully understand the Chinese culture and are too selfish to take on the extra favors required.
No. QF executives think of only our own greedy sordid little lives, and have no concept, care or the patience to be constantly helping our counterparts with 'immigration matters'.
No. Bit hard to do that when you are prancing around the cross wearing lederhosen and partying to George Michael and Bronski Beat tunes!
No. That is not an Australian business requirement so how does that fit in with our plans??
-
Oh yes Mr Sunfish, we tried that in Vietnam, it was a success, we know how Asians think. We even have an ex baggage handler running things up there in Vietnam, so China will be a walk in the park.
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No. Why would we do that? Dont the Chinese want to speak to me? We are good though, Kevin Rudd will help us out if we need it.
No. We at Qantas believe in open and transparent dealings. We have not been advised of any matter involving chancers, and we think you are confusing political agenda with business, something QF does not believe is an issue in China.
No. Certainly not. We believe in 'trust at first sight'. The Chinese will see our integrity very early in the peace and we do not feel they will question our western integrity at any stage of the venture. We are a western organisation and the need to plan ahead is ludicrous. Seven years is an eternity, we will educate our Chinese partners.
On a more serious note-
This is an inevitable conclusion in the Asian game. Asians will not allow any western enterprise to enter it's region and either make them look foolish, take profits outside of THEIR country, or undertake any activity that makes THEM lose money. This is not a swipe at Asia, it is an accurate description of doing business Asian style.
Let me be more blunt, and I do not meen to offend anybody by my comment, it is merely a fact - If certain QF individuals think for one minute that Asia will embrace, respect or give a general fu#k about any QF executive who is barely out of nappies, lived in a sheltered airline workshop, is queer, has yet to prove himself/herself as actually being a successful money churning business person plus has absolute concrete ties and influential powers at the most highest level of political and business circles then it is 'all over red rover'. This 'project' has been doomed from the moment it was concocted in someone's fantasy during their REM hours of sleep.
Investor beware !! The golden path to China is littered with the skeletons of many cloud cuckoo land contestants. To be sure....
Do you stay up drinking brandy with the Chinese till 4.00am?
-
Do you help their kids come and study in Australia, keep an eye on them and bail them out if they get into trouble?
- Do you help their extended family and friends with "Immigration" matters?
- Do you wine and dine them as a family in your own home when they visit Australia?
- Do you "facilitate" a little foreign exchange movement for them?
-
Do you have several of your executives and Board members doing this on a daily basis?
-
Have you trained a raft of senior Qantas executives who are fluent in Mandarin and Cantonese?
- Do you have the brains to sort out the "main chancers" (ie: "My uncle is a Politburo member") from the genuine article?
Do you persevere at this for Five to Seven years while they decide if you are genuine or not?
On a more serious note-
the Jetstar Pacific franchise 27% owned by Qantas is finished.
Let me be more blunt, and I do not meen to offend anybody by my comment, it is merely a fact - If certain QF individuals think for one minute that Asia will embrace, respect or give a general fu#k about any QF executive who is barely out of nappies, lived in a sheltered airline workshop, is queer, has yet to prove himself/herself as actually being a successful money churning business person plus has absolute concrete ties and influential powers at the most highest level of political and business circles then it is 'all over red rover'. This 'project' has been doomed from the moment it was concocted in someone's fantasy during their REM hours of sleep.
Investor beware !! The golden path to China is littered with the skeletons of many cloud cuckoo land contestants. To be sure....
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This is an inevitable conclusion in the Asian game. Asians will not allow any western enterprise to enter its region and either make them look foolish, take profits outside of THEIR country, or undertake any activity that makes THEM lose money. This is not a swipe at Asia, it is an accurate description of doing business Asian style.
.Of course, it's good for the shareholders.
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Given the passage of time since the AGM, isnt it about time that the Rat was put to task to reveal the details behind its plans and if they cannot do this, then have them exposed for the lack of progress.
Where are the good investigative journalists when they have a story begging to be told.
I dont include the most vocal commentators in that group.
Where are the good investigative journalists when they have a story begging to be told.
I dont include the most vocal commentators in that group.
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short circuit
Shorty I do hope you understand I was agreeing with you. Sometimes intent is hard to convey in a forum or blog
You make good points.
You make good points.
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It appears Qantas must have hired the ex CASA regulatory reform experts to manage and launch their new RedQ carrier.
I'd say you'll be waiting a long time to see or hear any announcements.
IMO this whole affair was launched to scare the crap out of the employees during an industrial dispute.
The easy way out of this is the catch phrase 'economic uncertainty'
Ter be sure Ter be sure
I'd say you'll be waiting a long time to see or hear any announcements.
IMO this whole affair was launched to scare the crap out of the employees during an industrial dispute.
The easy way out of this is the catch phrase 'economic uncertainty'
Ter be sure Ter be sure