Senate Inquiry, Hearing Program 4th Nov 2011
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Regulators around the world consider the Australian regulator a bit of a joke, now I guess our accident investigator as well, but I dont think they are laughing, this thread is a very serious reflection on just how incompetent and corrupt things have become in this country. If OM,s observations are an example of the establishments attitude god help us all.
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So we have CASA and the ATSBeaker. Is there something in the water affecting the top management?
Firstly, the ATSB and Beaker. He somehow decides that the mi mi mi mi tried, tested and proven Reason Model is somehow flawed, outdated or second rate pony pooh and The Beaker has a more fluid method??
Then secondly, you have CASA and Twerp 3. He somehow thinks that ICAO's methodology on Just Culture is flawed (even though his beloved CASA promulgates it and enforces it) and that this concept is also lightly basted in pony pooh and he has a better methodology and he disagrees with some of the ICAO fundamentals of Just Culture??
What is Canberra feeding these numpties? Is there something in the air? Have these guys been anointed with aviation Holy Spirit from above and been commissioned by The Lord to go forth and preach a new safety message throughout the land?
Beaker said it himself, not one of the three commissioners has an aviation investigation background. CASA is no better, Twerp 1 and Twerp 2 are washed up and been away from the real tin for too long, particularly Twerp 2. And Twerp 3 has been a bureaucrat, lawyer and philosopher all his life so his experience in the real aviation world is negligible. Mixing with ICAO and people like Beaker doesn't give you real life experience.
You're damn right we are stuck in a time warp. No wait, we are in the Matrix. No no wait, it's Quantum Leap!!
No, sadly the oversight of the industry is palpable and the decision makers have proven themselves not capable of understanding the industry they regulate or investigate. The only possible solution to cure this cancer is a robust injection of Senator radium.
"Aviation, what aviation?"
Firstly, the ATSB and Beaker. He somehow decides that the mi mi mi mi tried, tested and proven Reason Model is somehow flawed, outdated or second rate pony pooh and The Beaker has a more fluid method??
Then secondly, you have CASA and Twerp 3. He somehow thinks that ICAO's methodology on Just Culture is flawed (even though his beloved CASA promulgates it and enforces it) and that this concept is also lightly basted in pony pooh and he has a better methodology and he disagrees with some of the ICAO fundamentals of Just Culture??
What is Canberra feeding these numpties? Is there something in the air? Have these guys been anointed with aviation Holy Spirit from above and been commissioned by The Lord to go forth and preach a new safety message throughout the land?
Beaker said it himself, not one of the three commissioners has an aviation investigation background. CASA is no better, Twerp 1 and Twerp 2 are washed up and been away from the real tin for too long, particularly Twerp 2. And Twerp 3 has been a bureaucrat, lawyer and philosopher all his life so his experience in the real aviation world is negligible. Mixing with ICAO and people like Beaker doesn't give you real life experience.
You're damn right we are stuck in a time warp. No wait, we are in the Matrix. No no wait, it's Quantum Leap!!
No, sadly the oversight of the industry is palpable and the decision makers have proven themselves not capable of understanding the industry they regulate or investigate. The only possible solution to cure this cancer is a robust injection of Senator radium.
"Aviation, what aviation?"
Last edited by my oleo is extended; 3rd Apr 2013 at 13:33.
Regulators around the world consider the Australian regulator a bit of a joke
That couldn't be true, surely, no less a person than Mr. McCormick, himself, has publicly stated that CASA is the envy of the world's regulators, or words to that meaning.
He wouldn't say that, if it wasn't true, would he???????
Tootle pip!!
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Beaker said it himself, not one of the three commissioners has an aviation investigation background.
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MLE# 1392 –"Had a few once again have we Oleo?? Hope for your sake you don't get DAMP tested tomorrow..."
Thanks MLE – keep the ammunition coming.......
Dear Half cut – apparently not applicable, protected species etc. etc Although, under the only whispered of in dark corners, rumoured BK special rules; apparently, a well placed "psychic" complaint works just fine. Metaphysics and all that; refer GWM handbook of Impredicativity.
Russell's paradox is a famous example of an impredicative construction, namely the set of all sets which do not contain themselves. The paradox is whether such a set contains itself or not — if it does then by definition it should not, and if it does not then by definition it should.
Last edited by Kharon; 3rd Apr 2013 at 20:18. Reason: Drift orbit realignment.
Who fwamed Wodger...
HMHB:
These random DAMP tests have they ever been done on a casa office or officers? After all they are safety sensitive positions.
Apparently with Wodger the waskily wabbit (at least) you don’t have to worry about DAMP checks as he is allergic to beer and hard liquor. Although I’d be a bit concerned about him maintaining his class one as he’d only possibly need the fumes coming through from first class to set him off on some kind of epileptic episode…
Rumour is that this was filmed not long after Wodger wodgered DJ!
Oh well back to quartering Wodger for the wabbit stew simmering in the chamberpot!
These random DAMP tests have they ever been done on a casa office or officers? After all they are safety sensitive positions.
Rumour is that this was filmed not long after Wodger wodgered DJ!
Oh well back to quartering Wodger for the wabbit stew simmering in the chamberpot!
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Ills of society on the loose
Aargh yes VH-MLE, trolling once again? Usually it is Leadie or Sarcs that you are having a dig at, but that's ok, I have broad wings like your 182! I am happy to indulge your bitterness so feel free to keep posting and getting ignored
P.S Tell that Wiley Blackhand I said g'day
Now, enough of this tautological nonsense and back to the meat of this thread. Take it away Sarcs...........
P.S Tell that Wiley Blackhand I said g'day
Now, enough of this tautological nonsense and back to the meat of this thread. Take it away Sarcs...........
Last edited by my oleo is extended; 4th Apr 2013 at 00:42. Reason: Time Warping with Dr Frank n Furter and the CASA German slap dance team
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Good question:-
OM #1386 – "3) The Flight Data Recorders and Cockpit Voice Recorders were not made available to the Investigator in Charge because of budget, not safety considerations. As a result the following data (evidence) is missing:
Q. a) How much fuel was on board the aircraft? What were the fuel flow rates?
A) Not enough.
Q. a) How much fuel was on board the aircraft? What were the fuel flow rates?
A) Not enough.
Or: perhaps whether the things were working, or not. Now that would be nice to know.
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Big John is deluded. NZ, Singapore, FAA p#ss all over AUS.
If the Skull thinks that 24 years to rewrite the regs and $200 million dollars constitutes a world class regulator then he truly is off with the fairies in some fantasy land filled with potted plants, gold producing rainbows and silver lined chamber pots.
If the Skull thinks that 24 years to rewrite the regs and $200 million dollars constitutes a world class regulator then he truly is off with the fairies in some fantasy land filled with potted plants, gold producing rainbows and silver lined chamber pots.
The worlds best....
True.... CASA is the envy of the world.
Why? Because..people from places like Hong Kong see that never in the field of bureaucratic endeavour have so many had such a whoopee time snorting in the Big Trough along with taxpayer funded trips, paid "stress" leave, bonuses (ffs!) and all the free goodies.
So..hop in and get some too.
As for the well being of the industry ?.. Que? .no comprende!!
The Skull has screamed his skull empty to become just another ill of society, delusional, spouting unwarranted demagogary and I'd use a few other terms from his famous Senate spray, but I cant remember it all.
And the rest of the world also says ..How the fcuk have they got away with it for so long, while ruining an industry in the process.?
Its all to do with "safety" mate.
Anything can be done in the name of "safety"
..snowjob politicians, waste taxpayers money, be unaccountable, deny liability for anything, screw people over ( Hi JQ !) destroy busineses and commit a few criminal acts in the process, whatever....its all GOOD. And SAFE !!!
GA...what the fcuk was that ?
Why? Because..people from places like Hong Kong see that never in the field of bureaucratic endeavour have so many had such a whoopee time snorting in the Big Trough along with taxpayer funded trips, paid "stress" leave, bonuses (ffs!) and all the free goodies.
So..hop in and get some too.As for the well being of the industry ?.. Que? .no comprende!!
The Skull has screamed his skull empty to become just another ill of society, delusional, spouting unwarranted demagogary and I'd use a few other terms from his famous Senate spray, but I cant remember it all.
And the rest of the world also says ..How the fcuk have they got away with it for so long, while ruining an industry in the process.?
Its all to do with "safety" mate.
Anything can be done in the name of "safety"
..snowjob politicians, waste taxpayers money, be unaccountable, deny liability for anything, screw people over ( Hi JQ !) destroy busineses and commit a few criminal acts in the process, whatever....its all GOOD. And SAFE !!!
GA...what the fcuk was that ?
“It's just a jump to the left…”
Well we’re a long way off “bingo” to meet that 0655UTC dinner date at the houseboat (I hear wabbit stew is on the menu)…so let’s go for a short trip on Lefty’s timewarp machine…
The following is a reference from the last inquiry that is interesting, again in context of this inquiry, it refers to the former FF Manager of Human Factors Mr Ben Cook (you know the one who pulled the pin in mid 2010 and went onto greener pastures back inside the ADF
).
Here’s a quote from answer to CAsA QON 1 18/03/2010…“ The “scientific” review undertaken by Mr Cook of the Darwin rosters was not included in the audit report itself due to uncertainty about the validity of the methods utilized. Many of the recommendations made by Mr Cook and submitted to the audit team for consideration were based on opinion, with some not supported by facts and objective evidence…”
Here’s CAsA QON 1 and QON 6 where Senator X questions why FF seem to have totally disregarded their very own Manager Human Factors expert opinion and analysis as reported in the Human Factors section of the ‘Special Fatigue Audit: Jetstar’ (see link below).
You can read the full answers in the link below and also observe a classic DAS/GWM rule 101 (“if in doubt always attack the man”), which was originally plucked from the ‘Hitchhiker’s Guide to Mastering Sociopath behaviour’!
No wonder BC pulled the pin
, it would be quite demoralising to have two of your Fatigue Audit Reports totally sh#t canned in less than 6 months and both times it was all because they didn’t suit the DAS/GWM hidden agenda.
I have also included a link for the politically sanitised version of the FF ‘Special Fatigue Audit: Jetstar’ as tabled at the last inquiry for your comparison.
“Ok punch into the Box the co-ordinates for ‘Houseboat on the river Styx’ set the FGCS connect the A/P and away we go...”
https://senate.aph.gov.au/submission...6-aeb45b5fd32b
https://senate.aph.gov.au/submission...1-89a655859ce1
https://senate.aph.gov.au/submission...b-465f65a925f7
The following is a reference from the last inquiry that is interesting, again in context of this inquiry, it refers to the former FF Manager of Human Factors Mr Ben Cook (you know the one who pulled the pin in mid 2010 and went onto greener pastures back inside the ADF
). Here’s a quote from answer to CAsA QON 1 18/03/2010…“ The “scientific” review undertaken by Mr Cook of the Darwin rosters was not included in the audit report itself due to uncertainty about the validity of the methods utilized. Many of the recommendations made by Mr Cook and submitted to the audit team for consideration were based on opinion, with some not supported by facts and objective evidence…”
Here’s CAsA QON 1 and QON 6 where Senator X questions why FF seem to have totally disregarded their very own Manager Human Factors expert opinion and analysis as reported in the Human Factors section of the ‘Special Fatigue Audit: Jetstar’ (see link below).
Inquiry into Pilot Training & Airline Safety
Public Hearing –Friday, 18 March 2010
CANBERRA
Questions Taken on Notice – CASA/ATSB
1. HANSARD, RA&T 60
Senator XENOPHON—I think the report was quite careful in saying that no evidence had been provided to date. In other words, there was no positive evidence of, for instance, an appropriate strategic assessment of fatigue risk. It also refers to a scientific review of Darwin based flight crew rosters which indicated that there were predicted levels of fatigue risk that required further review by Jetstar, and that, in the absence of sufficient proactive fatigue risk assessment practice by Jetstar, there may be unacceptable fatigue risks that are not being identified and managed. Has that been attended to since that time?
Mr Hood—I would like to take that on notice, if I can. I will go back and review Jetstar’s
response to our audit recommendations.
6. HANSARD, RA&T 72, 73
Senator XENOPHON—Chair, I just wanted to put this on notice. Going back to the Jetstar fatigue audit and the letter that went to Mr Buchanan, the CEO of Jetstar, on notice, can you provide details of the 12 recommendations and the other comments that were made? Which of those were put in the report to Mr Buchanan? And insofar as some of the matters were not raised with Mr Buchanan, could you indicate why CASA decided not to raise those matters with Jetstar?
Mr McCormick—My understanding is that you mean from the Ben Cook input to the final report?
Senator XENOPHON—Yes.
Mr McCormick—How many were bundled into the main report? Which ones were not? And why were they not?
Senator XENOPHON—Sure, that is fine.
Mr McCormick—Yes, that is no problem.
Public Hearing –Friday, 18 March 2010
CANBERRA
Questions Taken on Notice – CASA/ATSB
1. HANSARD, RA&T 60
Senator XENOPHON—I think the report was quite careful in saying that no evidence had been provided to date. In other words, there was no positive evidence of, for instance, an appropriate strategic assessment of fatigue risk. It also refers to a scientific review of Darwin based flight crew rosters which indicated that there were predicted levels of fatigue risk that required further review by Jetstar, and that, in the absence of sufficient proactive fatigue risk assessment practice by Jetstar, there may be unacceptable fatigue risks that are not being identified and managed. Has that been attended to since that time?
Mr Hood—I would like to take that on notice, if I can. I will go back and review Jetstar’s
response to our audit recommendations.
6. HANSARD, RA&T 72, 73
Senator XENOPHON—Chair, I just wanted to put this on notice. Going back to the Jetstar fatigue audit and the letter that went to Mr Buchanan, the CEO of Jetstar, on notice, can you provide details of the 12 recommendations and the other comments that were made? Which of those were put in the report to Mr Buchanan? And insofar as some of the matters were not raised with Mr Buchanan, could you indicate why CASA decided not to raise those matters with Jetstar?
Mr McCormick—My understanding is that you mean from the Ben Cook input to the final report?
Senator XENOPHON—Yes.
Mr McCormick—How many were bundled into the main report? Which ones were not? And why were they not?
Senator XENOPHON—Sure, that is fine.
Mr McCormick—Yes, that is no problem.
No wonder BC pulled the pin
, it would be quite demoralising to have two of your Fatigue Audit Reports totally sh#t canned in less than 6 months and both times it was all because they didn’t suit the DAS/GWM hidden agenda.I have also included a link for the politically sanitised version of the FF ‘Special Fatigue Audit: Jetstar’ as tabled at the last inquiry for your comparison.
“Ok punch into the Box the co-ordinates for ‘Houseboat on the river Styx’ set the FGCS connect the A/P and away we go...”
https://senate.aph.gov.au/submission...6-aeb45b5fd32b
https://senate.aph.gov.au/submission...1-89a655859ce1
https://senate.aph.gov.au/submission...b-465f65a925f7
Last edited by Sarcs; 4th Apr 2013 at 05:30. Reason: "And then a step to the right...."
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'Put your hands on Skulls hips'......
Connect the dots...
Sarcs, what is interesting about your last robust post is some of the 'players' in this.
- When that inquiry was taking place and Mr Hood was taking QON's about fatigue at JQ and safety risks, the JQ Safety Manager had only been working for Mr Hood as a Safety Systems Specialist (SSS) about 12 months earlier at CASA, all part of the same team, very close, all good mates.
- Gets better. Another one of their 'group', also a SSS, resigned around the same time. He ends up coming back to CASA as a 'consultant' (in Mr Hoods group where he worked 12 months earlier) and he participates in a CASA audit of none other than JQ! Yes he gets to audit his former fellow CASA mate who is now at JQ in a senior role!
All of this took place within an approximately 12 month period!
As for Ben Cook, well like Aherne, he was classed as low on the food chain so naturally The Skull and the GWM were happy to sacrifice him at the drop of a hat. Mr Cook unfortunately displayed skill, professionalism and always delivered an open and honest assessment, something the hierarchy in FF don't appreciate
or foster.
Indeed there are many moves that have been played on the Snakes and Ladder board during the wee hours of the night around the halls of FF.
Has the Senate dug deep enough yet?
"Aviation, what aviation?"
Sarcs, what is interesting about your last robust post is some of the 'players' in this.
- When that inquiry was taking place and Mr Hood was taking QON's about fatigue at JQ and safety risks, the JQ Safety Manager had only been working for Mr Hood as a Safety Systems Specialist (SSS) about 12 months earlier at CASA, all part of the same team, very close, all good mates.
- Gets better. Another one of their 'group', also a SSS, resigned around the same time. He ends up coming back to CASA as a 'consultant' (in Mr Hoods group where he worked 12 months earlier) and he participates in a CASA audit of none other than JQ! Yes he gets to audit his former fellow CASA mate who is now at JQ in a senior role!
All of this took place within an approximately 12 month period!
As for Ben Cook, well like Aherne, he was classed as low on the food chain so naturally The Skull and the GWM were happy to sacrifice him at the drop of a hat. Mr Cook unfortunately displayed skill, professionalism and always delivered an open and honest assessment, something the hierarchy in FF don't appreciate
or foster.
Indeed there are many moves that have been played on the Snakes and Ladder board during the wee hours of the night around the halls of FF.
Has the Senate dug deep enough yet?
"Aviation, what aviation?"
Last edited by my oleo is extended; 4th Apr 2013 at 12:18.
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This is what FAA have done in regard to revolving doors.
New rule to improve FAA ‘safety culture’
Getting close to 300,000 views now! pretty impressive.
New rule to improve FAA ‘safety culture’
New rule to improve FAA ‘safety culture’
By Dan Namowitz
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The FAA has enacted a conflict-of-interest rule prohibiting air carriers and some general aviation operators from employing as representatives aviation safety inspectors with oversight roles over their operations for two years after the inspectors leave the agency.
The rule, proposed in 2009, was the FAA’s response to concerns about “an overly close relationship” that had developed between Southwest Airlines and inspectors overseeing airline operations, the FAA said in a news release Aug. 19.
“The flying public can rest assured that our aviation safety inspectors will remain focused on protecting the flying public without any conflicts of interest,” said Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood.
Effective Oct. 21, operators affected by the rule will be prohibited from employing or contracting with former FAA employees who directly served in or oversaw inspection of the employer’s operations. The restrictions apply to operations under parts 121, 125, 133, 135, 137, 141, 142, 145, 147, and subpart K of part 91. General aviation operators providing on-demand charters under Part 135, flight training under Part 141, or participating in fractional ownership or its management under subpart K of Part 91 would be included. Other Part 91 operators would be excluded.
FAA Administrator or Randy Babbitt said that the rule would “improve our safety culture here at the FAA and throughout the aviation industry.”
In 2008 the FAA proposed a $10.2 million civil penalty against Southwest for operating 46 airplanes on approximately 60,000 flights without inspecting fuselages for fatigue cracks in accordance with an airworthiness directive, according to the final rule published Aug. 20.
A report by the Department of Transportation Office of Inspector General report “concluded that the FAA Certificate Management Office (CMO) overseeing the airline that failed to perform the required inspections had developed an overly collaborative relationship with the airline.” The report recommended that the FAA issue “post-employment guidance” prohibiting carriers from hiring former inspectors who had overseen the carrier’s operations.
The FAA said aviation safety could be compromised if a former inspector were able to exert “undue influence on current FAA employees with whom he or she had established close working relationships” during his or her time at the agency.
In an effort to quantify the rule’s potential workforce impact, the FAA studied the fiscal year from Oct. 1, 2008, to Sept. 30, 2009, and estimated that of 163 inspectors who left the agency during the period, 125 would have been affected by the rule.
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August 23, 2011
By Dan Namowitz
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0
The FAA has enacted a conflict-of-interest rule prohibiting air carriers and some general aviation operators from employing as representatives aviation safety inspectors with oversight roles over their operations for two years after the inspectors leave the agency.
The rule, proposed in 2009, was the FAA’s response to concerns about “an overly close relationship” that had developed between Southwest Airlines and inspectors overseeing airline operations, the FAA said in a news release Aug. 19.
“The flying public can rest assured that our aviation safety inspectors will remain focused on protecting the flying public without any conflicts of interest,” said Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood.
Effective Oct. 21, operators affected by the rule will be prohibited from employing or contracting with former FAA employees who directly served in or oversaw inspection of the employer’s operations. The restrictions apply to operations under parts 121, 125, 133, 135, 137, 141, 142, 145, 147, and subpart K of part 91. General aviation operators providing on-demand charters under Part 135, flight training under Part 141, or participating in fractional ownership or its management under subpart K of Part 91 would be included. Other Part 91 operators would be excluded.
FAA Administrator or Randy Babbitt said that the rule would “improve our safety culture here at the FAA and throughout the aviation industry.”
In 2008 the FAA proposed a $10.2 million civil penalty against Southwest for operating 46 airplanes on approximately 60,000 flights without inspecting fuselages for fatigue cracks in accordance with an airworthiness directive, according to the final rule published Aug. 20.
A report by the Department of Transportation Office of Inspector General report “concluded that the FAA Certificate Management Office (CMO) overseeing the airline that failed to perform the required inspections had developed an overly collaborative relationship with the airline.” The report recommended that the FAA issue “post-employment guidance” prohibiting carriers from hiring former inspectors who had overseen the carrier’s operations.
The FAA said aviation safety could be compromised if a former inspector were able to exert “undue influence on current FAA employees with whom he or she had established close working relationships” during his or her time at the agency.
In an effort to quantify the rule’s potential workforce impact, the FAA studied the fiscal year from Oct. 1, 2008, to Sept. 30, 2009, and estimated that of 163 inspectors who left the agency during the period, 125 would have been affected by the rule.
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August 23, 2011
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Adding insult to injury.
Sarcs # 1405 –"No wonder BC pulled the pin, it would be quite demoralising to have two of your Fatigue Audit Reports totally sh#t canned in less than 6 months and both times it was all - etc."
While awaiting the arrival of Sarcs in the TWM, I was comparing the Barrier maintenance issues (RCA) with the Pel Air maintenance audit – fascinating stuff. Same sort of issues, different result of course; but the parallels are striking. At the end of the Pel-Air report is a curiously intriguing paragraph: "CASA recommends that Pel-Air Aviation Pty Ltd review and update." etc. Last sentence reads:-"CASA will address the maintenance control deficiencies further as part of a separate airworthiness audit report." I wonder where that can be?. This is followed by another series of RCA issued by one M. Horsley, once again signed by Chambers. I wonder why this Chambers fellah signs so many RCA?, must be a perfectly sensible explanation, but it's passing strange that most of the other guys on the 'audit/investigation' team seem to have managed to sign their own. All a total waste of course, deprived of AAT prey by the back flip, I expect they just had to bury it all, out of harms way. Of course - OH&S, now why didn't I think of that.
Well, Minnie Bannister has grabbed the Gin bottle and the guests are arriving; best get ashore and help park the Tardisa. (Dr. He Hoo has the Tardis).....
Last edited by Kharon; 4th Apr 2013 at 19:39.
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As requested.
N.B. The Zippyshare document text has not, to the best of our knowledge been changed, simply copied and pasted then converted to an individual PDF for convenience. The original is buried in the Senate submissions, also available through the CASA website (search FOI – [item 5] disclosure log – Pel Air) we recommend the 'bona fide' CASA submission be compared with the on file working copy before relying implicitly on the information provided.
PA Maintenance Audit.
Please only use the "Download Now" button in the top right corner to avoid advertisements; PAIN_Net do not track downloads.
P4 a.k.a. the Ferret.
PA Maintenance Audit.
Please only use the "Download Now" button in the top right corner to avoid advertisements; PAIN_Net do not track downloads.
P4 a.k.a. the Ferret.