Virgin & VIPA - pay rise

[spocky]

Lets be sure of two things here....Firstly I don't consider for one moment that VIPA has a majority holding on the VB pilot group as many members have both AFAP and VIPA membership. Secondly, the E Jet guys knew exactly what they were getting into when they joined that fleet, just like all the commuters on the 737 out of Sydney and Melbourne. In the medium term, I would suspect that the majority of E Jet drivers will be off that type in the coming years anyway. Would I sacrifice the wages and conditions of the whole group for the sake of the E Jet pilots wages. NO !! And I have many friends that fly them.

Spocky

[campdoag]

Wow...... your ignorance is baffling...

I will just ask you this.. If the EJET fleet had the majority vote would you have the same attitude??

Reading between the lines of your contemptible post, what you seem to be saying is that you would rather see no change to the EJET deal but want your own conditions to improve....

Why????

I am under no misconception that people will only vote in for a deal that is in their own best interests but EBA negotiations are simply that negotiations...
Why wouldnt you first try to negotiate a deal that keeps everyone happy.....

[porch monkey]

Hey doag, don't misunderstand me, I'm all for the battle ahead, and I think the embraer boys will get the pay rise they deserve. I also suspect that us 73 drivers will as a result get very little. I'm not overly concerned about that, as long as we pick up the credit system that V oz got and we don't lose anything out of the lifestyle column.....

[ad-astra]

Is there any reason why these issues cannot be discussed on our own VB Pilots web site?

[virginaldriver]

That might be the case spocky but come renewal time, I don't think many of the dual members would be renewing with both unions.. Based on general talk on the line most would choose VIPA.. Also is the AFAP perhaps counting those who have received 4 or 5 reminder notices but can't be bothered resigning as members still?

FMCinop.. acknowledging Mr Borghetti in a newsletter is not a sign of weakness. By acknowledging the good fortune in dealing with good management they are being honest and factual. Did the AFAP do this at any stage? I don't receive their correspondence so I wouldn't know. I think it's a good thing that they acknowledged Mr Borghetti.

Another thing I'd like to know is how much of the AFAP members money was spent on fighting VIPA in the courts and what could that money have done to improve the AFAP as a union? Do you have a figure? I was a member at the time and was not happy that this was occurring.

I highly doubt VIPA under it's current leadership would front the troops with a marginal agreement and say "you should vote yes, as it's the best you're going to get". No matter who was running Virgin. I'm sorry but THAT legacy has stuck with the AFAP, the only way it is going to change is with a fresh approach.. Best of luck!

[fmcinop]

How many guys at VB have said the VA EBA is a total disgrace, yet VIPA fully endorsed this one? "B scale and all". Just Like the VB EBA there comes a time when negotiations stall and there is no more progress to be made. The comment of this is a good as it is going to get was true. Just as VIPA have anounced this time around. It was then put out to vote and like it or not the majority voted yes. There are a few perpetual whiners who will never be happy but in my experience judging by the guys I see in the crew room and those I fly with and even see in the bar the vast majority of the guys and girls are more than happy.
I must just mix in circles of glass half full people.

Ps: I just had lunch with a bunch of ejet pilots and they all said they were all happy with the current EBA and knew the terms and conditions when they took the job.

[Kanga1]

fmcinop is neither Black or White, he's a shade of Gray

[spocky]

Camp DOAG, I never said I didn't want E Jet guys to get a pay rise..quite the opposite!!! What I'm saying is that the majority of aircraft are boeing, and that the majority of pilots will not take a menial payrise for the sake of the Embraer. If it is a sensible payrise across the board, then everybody will be happy.

[34R]

What I'm saying is that the majority of aircraft are boeing, and that the majority of pilots will not take a menial payrise for the sake of the Embraer

No, what you're saying is you wont agree to your fellow colleagues enjoying a fairer remuneration package unless there is something in it for you.

Astounding!

This EBA is a great opportunity to extend a helping hand to your fellow workers, to display to the industry that you as a group are united and are above the petty "mines bigger than yours" mentality.
Not to mention, get another fleet on similar terms and conditions, and if money is all that matters to you, you have just increased your potential command slot opportunities

[gocat]

Spocky your attitude really disappoints me....

There are a LOT of very experienced FO's on the EJET fleet that have come from a jet background. The fact that we are penalised for having this experience is my only frustration with Virgin. Comparing paychecks with people on the 737 there is on average (with overtime) a 40-50k difference in salaries. Why are you worth that more than us?

Fact - no one can move from fleet type until a 30 month freeze period is served after check to line even though we have paid for our own endorsement!

I think the majority of us are pissed the fact that someone can start after you and by stroke of luck be placed on the 737 and be earning significantly more than there college.

This is a time for all of us to work together for a better outcome for ALL Virgin Australia pilots. I just hope your selfish attitude is a minority.

What would you be saying today if you were placed on the EJET rather than the 737?

[virginaldriver]

like it or not the majority voted yes

And by what percentage was it voted yes by? 2% from memory? or was it 4%

Your arguments do not make any sense.. you're trying to steamroll a turd in the hope it might not be recognisable..

I'm sorry but there's a huge difference in saying "this is the best you're going to get" to "ok the negotiations have stalled, we're not happy with the outcome but it's up to you to vote. If your vote sends a clear message to the company then we will go back to the negotiating table with some ammunition"... I think that's what most pilots were hoping to see, and that is why the EBA was only voted up by 2% or whatever it was.. Fear tactics from the company that we would not get the EMB flying if we did not vote it in were supported by the AFAP!.. who the hell else was going to fly the EMB Jets!?

It's obvious you're an AFAP supporter to the bitter end.. you're even coming up with excuses for them despite glaringly obvious shortcomings displayed in the past. All I can say is that I wish you all the best!

[fmcinop]

There is always someone willing to shaft someone else to try an get a better deal for themselves.

It's all very sad.

Instead of in fighting about who should get paid more, how about everyone working together to get the best deal for the group as a "group". I'm flying a 330 or a 737 or an EMB so don't give a rats about anyone else isn't going to do anyone any favours.

Stick together, look after your fellow pilot and work as a team will ensure the best result for everyone.

[34R]

Interesting to note that those that did vote yes and went over to the ejet as the first group of trainers did not do so under the terms and conditions they just endorsed. They kept their 737 pay rate, why? Because nobody would have voluntarily done so on that appalling pay structure.

But as the ejet was not represented by a pilot body at the time of voting, nobody cared!

[kimir]

A lot of the e-jet drivers i've spoken to lately are on half the hours i'm on. When you look at it like that then it presents itself as a good gig. By the way i didn't vote yes to the last EBA. I am concerned about the productivity on the E jet.

[psycho joe]

Instead of in fighting about who should get paid more, how about everyone working together to get the best deal for the group as a "group".

Are you joking? That has consistantly been the mantra of VIPA, Who have been successful in working with other unions.

The AFAP on the other hand are ones trying to be Robinson Carusoe. (Or is that David Carusoe?)


"what we have here Frank..................................is a dying federation"

"Are those teethmarks on the body, Horatio"

"Yes Frank.......(put's on sunglasses)...........this was a VIPA attack"

[White and Fluffy]

So what is the latest on the EBA at Virgin Aus?

[SilverSleuth]

Absolutely nothing !

[Dragun]

A lot of the e-jet drivers i've spoken to lately are on half the hours i'm on. When you look at it like that then it presents itself as a good gig. By the way i didn't vote yes to the last EBA. I am concerned about the productivity on the E jet.

Key word: lately.

This just highlights how a current rostering pattern can change and that T&Cs should not be based on the general perception on how many hours are being currently rostered - it goes so much deeper than that. That post was at the start of September, 2011 and now FOs are doing 70-80 hours a roster. The last two rosters I've had 73 and 72 hours respectively.

[System Logic]

Latest ??

for the most part, things have somewhat stalled. there has been talk that the company wants to delay things until the new financial year. as far as pay is concerned, the company is offering 3% including increased productivity. Not what most of the pilot group were expecting. however, dont think the company was expecting what the pilots asked either. both unions agreeing to integrated seniority. i.e. integrate the VOZ guys based on date of joining (including the CFO's) and the PB guys at the bottom ?? they do get first crack at NZ commands though. other points of the EBA being worked out. that is all.

SL

[GAFA]

There could be some good news for new starters as both unions have been pushing to remove the requirement for pilots to pay for their endorsement and have a 24 month bond instead. It appears the company is starting to think the same way so it could be a big win any new pilots (shame 800 pilots had to pay for theirs) and way overdue.